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Estrangement

AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

(281 Posts)
Starblaze Mon 25-Nov-19 22:22:20

A few I still need to work on a bit more here but I remember being this person and how unhappy I was.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/tech-support/201811/12-wrong-assumptions-unloved-daughter-makes-about-life?fbclid=IwAR2_mPcSuRMrJAtTuVEb8iWrHaCzJccxP_B0UQVAep-UMGOq1VXenp-nz8Y

Starblaze Mon 25-Nov-19 22:24:56

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-support/201812/unloved-daughters-5-wishes-and-5-strategies-grant-them?fbclid=IwAR1B0neBrMSM1sQr-3Bo778EfLboNfkY-gyyoEYtC_OpXlnHPvv8PwoyMPc

HolyHannah Mon 25-Nov-19 22:52:00

Starblaze -- Those are both great articles. I can relate to all of it.

Starblaze Mon 25-Nov-19 23:26:17

I sometimes think about what it must be like to grow up in a normal household. I've spent years trying to undo the damage and I'm still not there. Maybe soon.

HolyHannah Mon 25-Nov-19 23:40:27

Starblaze -- No how matter much research I do, how much I talk, get support and understanding from other survivors, there will always be that broken part inside. It's why I hate being invalidated.

I'm sure my 'mom' still hurts over the rejection, but as I tried to explain to her, her abuse came first. My reaction to her abuse is not abuse against HER. Alas, she couldn't/wouldn't see my POV and so we will never reconcile. Until she acknowledges MY PAIN (whether she believes she caused it or not) NOTHING will change in our relationship.

Her pain trumps my pain so therefore my pain doesn't exist. She can't even admit that I have C-PTSD or any other issues other then to use those conditions as more excuses to be abusive. So seeing my pain? It's never going to happen.

Starblaze Mon 25-Nov-19 23:51:34

No it's not and I'm so sorry. I think some of these mothers would shoot themselves in the foot to outdo our stubbed toe.

HolyHannah Mon 25-Nov-19 23:57:13

Starblaze -- I agree. It's a defense mechanism. If they are 'hurting' more then you then they can dismiss your pain and ignore/dismiss their part in causing that pain/damage.

rosecarmel Tue 26-Nov-19 02:16:19

It was up to me to decide to accept and love my mother for who she was, to understand that she parented with what she had to work with and that her hyper-empathetic character crippled her abilities to communicate and express love consistently and constructively- As a result she lived in denial outwardly and suffered internally in silent truth-

I'm like my mother- My daughter is like me- But I'm less like my mother and my daughter is even less like me- Except in one way ..

My mother appreciated being alive, despite the sufferings of life, and maintained her appreciation for "being here" even as she drew her last breath- In that way we are the same- We appreciate the joy of "being here" despite all the suffering-

HolyHannah Tue 26-Nov-19 03:08:08

rosecarmel -- For me, I do love and accept my 'mom' and her limitations. People often think/believe that I hate her or wish her ill because I walked away. It's quite the opposite. IF she could read something like the first article and actually SEE the damage I live with and actually not repeat the same hurtful behavior/attitude, then I would gladly have her back in my life.

Unfortunately any attempt to explain my perspective/pain she would fall back on old behaviors that were confusing as a child, the pity party of -- "I'm a terrible mother! How could you say something so horrible!" like me saying, "I don't like how you treat me/what you say to me." OR her other default of anger/indignation or denial like, "I would never do/say THAT! Where did you dream 'that' up?"

This is what #4 illustrates. We learn that our feelings are illegitimate because they were constantly ignored and we were told/gas-lighted into believing that was "normal". Caring about how you make others feel is normal in a healthy relationship. Healthy relationships are two way. Until she can care about/acknowledge that I possess feelings, it's all one way towards her. I don't have the mental energy to give to anyone that way, including my 'mom'.

Sara65 Tue 26-Nov-19 06:45:27

I don’t love my mother, I don’t even like her, if she was someone I met randomly, I wouldn’t like her. Regardless of what kind of mother she was, she’s not a good person.

Neither do I hate her, I just don’t want ever to have anything to do with her again.

I’m sure she tells all her cronies at the golf club, dreadful tales of being unloved and abandoned by her daughter, I don’t care, she’s brought everything on herself.

Starblaze Tue 26-Nov-19 07:30:40

My NM has made sure my whole family cut me off. I'm cruel for doing it but they aren't. Yes I cut my children off from her but they cut off my children. It's all very nonsensical really

rosecarmel Tue 26-Nov-19 11:13:33

I've gone through periods/phases where I felt/experienced similar to all shared thoughts above- Eventually I had to understand the circumstances for what they were, how they impacted our collective lives, one generation to the next-

I changed the way I looked at her rather than investing time and energy and emotion on ways to make her change- I can't even hold her accountable for the way she was not knowing with any certainty how she got that way to begin with- I know she held herself accountable, although not openly, because if she hadn't she'd of not been in such a state of denial-

We were estranged- Even when sitting next to each other- Even when years passed and we didn't see each other- Yet we were connected-

Starblaze Tue 26-Nov-19 13:45:06

I tried that Rosecarmel, with guidance... Unfortunately in my case it just meant the abuse was ramped up and others were then brought into it against me and I didn't know what was happening behind the scenes till it was too late. I'm glad that worked for you and you were able to heal in the relationship. I don't think I ever could have, the more I "grew up" and the gentler and more understanding I was the worse it got. I have done absolutely no damage to her other relationships though and I am happy for her to have that support as I do thankfully have my own.

rosecarmel Tue 26-Nov-19 16:07:35

I don't know about anyone else but I can't say with any complete certainty that many of the decisions that I made regarding estrangement were me being the best I could be- But when the only other option was to "pretend" that everything was OK when it wasn't / isnt, estrangement or distance seemed like the healthiest of the two-

I'm open to vulnerable discussion but not open to "being told" or one way conversations- Certainly there are occasions when just listening is necessary to make headway, to bring anything to my attention, but not to further establish me as the familial f-up, worthless, scapegoat- It makes me want to grease the pedestals they've placed themselves on- If they ever slipped off it they may "see" me as their equal-

But it's so much easier to treat someone as less, to not grow close and risk exposure-

I can't change my violent, neglectful upbringing- I can change how I look at it, I can change me- Even if such changes make me appear even less of a person than previously and it creates further distancing- Because face it, who really, truly wants to be in company of someone who "sees" what's going on other than people who love you- Pretenders keep their distance-

Starblaze Tue 26-Nov-19 16:12:22

Oh Rosecarmel, we all have to do what is right for us. I know what you mean about the pedestal but I feel other family have already ignored my NM falling off her pedestal several times, I think they find it easier not to admit they were wrong and blame my estranging for her irrational behaviour.

None of it changes who you really are and how worthy you are of love.

HolyHannah Tue 26-Nov-19 16:21:51

rosecarmel -- One issue I see in how I grew up was how the whole home concept was based on lies. When you get older and start to see through the lies it becomes impossible to keep playing like everything is okay. It wasn't/isn't fine. My 'family' was toxic and only I (the bottom feeder/scapegoat) could see it.

rosecarmel Tue 26-Nov-19 16:22:53

Starblaze, if family blame you, it would seem they're viewing the circumstance from the summit of their own ego-

Starblaze Tue 26-Nov-19 18:55:56

I really thought I could fix it for a long time, I could be the daughter she wanted or get through to her how she was making me feel. Nothing worked. It just bought me Co dependant relationships from always being the person who was there whenever asked for everyone. I had friends who invited me over to help them clean! Things are a lot different now and I have really good balanced relationships.

Sara65 Tue 26-Nov-19 19:20:50

Starblaze

I understand how you felt, all throughout my childhood I tried and tried to break through her coldness.

But I now realise it could never have happened, we never had a bond, I was never what she wanted, and it’s not in her to be kind or loving.

I don’t have any self pity, if I pity anyone, it’s her.

Starblaze Tue 26-Nov-19 19:26:05

I think I pity me a little Sara but I definitely pity my NM much more. We have the capacity to be happy and they don't, not really.

Sara65 Tue 26-Nov-19 19:31:59

Starblaze

I agree, and that’s the best revenge, my mother hates that I’ve got a good life, she’d love for me to be a miserable failure.

HolyHannah Wed 27-Nov-19 05:43:20

I watched a YT video the other day from my fave 'estranged mom' who has "no clue" why her daughter is estranged. One of her theme's was EC saying, "We didn't ask to be born." Her reply was, "Well I didn't ask to be born either." like this somehow explains 'something'.

Has anyone else run into that mentality? The irrational 'logic'? Of course THEY didn't ask to be born any more then We did... What they don't do is make the leap to, "Blaming Me for your decision to have a child (Me) and resenting Me for the 'work' raising a child IS is not MY fault. YOU chose to have ME. I didn't ask for that and had no part in my making."

And if I did have an influence on not being born at all, versus to my 'parents'? I might have told one to 'feign a headache' and the other to 'take matters into his own hand'...

It must be hard for a parent to hear that how I feel about my life and how I was treated made me want to be "not around"/not alive versus the choice of being 'raised' by them. That said, I also feel that my 'mom' would have loved for me to kill myself so she could be the ultimate victim.

Starblaze Wed 27-Nov-19 07:42:33

Morbid curiosity Hannah but can I have a link? PM?

Ziggy62 Wed 27-Nov-19 07:49:53

painful reading but I can relate to so much on here.

Starblaze Wed 27-Nov-19 09:10:03

I've found it! I'm adding this here, not to start a discussion or talk about anyone here. Just for info purposes. Block if possible, ignore, do not let this sort of person provoke you into reacting so they can blame you for the reaction. If they just want their "fix" ignoring will hurt them the most.

blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2019/10/can-you-spot-a-narcissist-online-3-surprising-behaviors-which-reveal-predators-in-cyberspace/