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Estrangement

Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

(219 Posts)
HolyHannah Thu 02-Jul-20 05:02:26

I've often wondered how much religion plays a part in estrangement.

I was 'raised' Christian and hated IT. The hypocrisy that I saw in that community was appalling to Me even as a minor child... Add the double-standards of my home environment, all these "rules"/ideals existed in principle but the only one following them/MADE to follow them and faced consequences for NOT following those "rules" was ME. Oh and a few 'fellow goats'... A group/community/'family' doesn't need many from my experience and reality -- just enough to make others' "fall into line" lest they become a 'goat' as well.

Here's a list, compiled by an EP of Biblical quotes:

Proverbs 1:8 My child, listen when your father corrects you. Don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.

Proverbs 6:20 My son, obey your father’s commands, and don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.

Proverbs 10:1 The proverbs of Solomon: A wise child brings joy to a father; a foolish child brings grief to a mother.

Proverbs 15:20 Sensible children bring joy to their father; foolish children despise their mother.

Proverbs 19:26 Children who mistreat their father or chase away their mother are an embarrassment and a public disgrace.

Proverbs 20:20 If you insult your father or mother, your light will be snuffed out in total darkness.

Proverbs 23:22 Listen to your father, who gave you life, and don’t despise your mother when she is old.

Proverbs 23:25 So give your father and mother joy! May she who gave you birth be happy.

Proverbs 28:24 Anyone who steals from his father and mother and says, “What’s wrong with that?” is no better than a murderer.

Proverbs 30:11 Some people curse their father and do not thank their mother.

Proverbs 30:17 The eye that mocks a father and despises a mother’s instructions will be plucked out by ravens of the valley and eaten by vultures.

And this is why I'm a Jedi.

Sparkling Thu 02-Jul-20 05:08:55

!

Alexa Thu 02-Jul-20 07:30:35

I would like to identify with some religion but I ask too many questions.

geekesse Thu 02-Jul-20 09:03:27

I have no patience with people, within or outside religion, who take individual sentences out of context from their religious book, and use them to bully people into compliance. It shows a monumental ignorance of the texts, and demonstrates how manipulative people will use anything for their own ends.

A really fun game for people who know the Bible well is to play proof-text ping-pong. Each player has to find a verse which contradicts the previous player’s verse. And it’s meaningless used that way.

Pantglas2 Thu 02-Jul-20 09:06:34

All religions were invented, some more recently than others. Why not be original and invent your own rather than follow someone else’s claptrap!

Smileless2012 Thu 02-Jul-20 09:11:52

I agree geekesse

Iam64 Thu 02-Jul-20 09:16:02

Using our own difficult experiences to reject something that's important to many others isn't helpful to anyone.

Toadinthehole Thu 02-Jul-20 09:20:48

Religion and Christianity are totally different things. Religion is about doing things religiously, often at the control of others. So someone doing something repeatedly, say going shopping every Friday.....is doing it religiously. Christianity is about following Jesus and believing in Him. He is the only way to God and salvation. Unfortunately, many ‘ Christian’ institutions have been infected by the imperfection of man, seen in many of our churches. It is these that put people down and make them feel worthless. Not in Jesus’s itinerary at all.

Luckygirl Thu 02-Jul-20 09:51:44

Religion is about power; it is often a force for evil, and has been so for generations.

This is why I stay clear of it. But I respect the beliefs of others and have several close friends who are vicars, who respect my absence of belief.

The OP has had bad experiences of religion - she is not alone. How sad that it is such a force for division where none need exist.

MellowYellow Thu 02-Jul-20 10:06:06

Amen to that, Toadinthehole!

OceanMama Thu 02-Jul-20 11:00:30

Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them.

Col 3.21 Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.

Prov 14.1 The wisest of women builds her house, but folly with her own hands tears it down.

OceanMama Thu 02-Jul-20 11:51:36

Just a few that speak on the other side too.

Chewbacca Thu 02-Jul-20 11:59:48

Using our own difficult experiences to reject something that's important to many others isn't helpful to anyone.

🖕

This.

Namsnanny Thu 02-Jul-20 12:06:26

9.03 geekesse ... could not agree more. Well put!

starbird Thu 02-Jul-20 12:16:25

I certainly don’t see anything wrong with honouring our father and mother.

Unfortunately in abandoning religion - and let’s face it, if the ‘Prophet’ who started any of the major religions, were to return today, they would be saddened to see what they have become - some people throw out the baby with the bathwater. At the root of all beliefs, as they were originally intended to be, is the exhortation to love thy neighbour - thy neighbour today being the whole world. If we did unto others as we would be done by, there would be no wars and meanness. The world could so easily become a paradise. It wouldn’t take much effort to care about the whole world as we do our family.

Chewbacca Thu 02-Jul-20 12:24:47

Well, if HolyHannah is a Jedi, she'll be familiar with this Jedi proverb:

To be a good person is more important than being a Jedi.

From Obi-Wan dealing with the idea of not becoming a Jedi. Jedi Apprentice Book 2^

Galaxy Thu 02-Jul-20 12:25:13

We dont need religion to do that though starbird.

Chewbacca Thu 02-Jul-20 12:26:14

And this one:

You can't force people to be just and decent. Such qualities arise from within - they cannot be forced from without. ~ Qui-Gin4

EllanVannin Thu 02-Jul-20 12:33:01

Oh dear. Religion is alright in small doses but I can't be doing with those who are carried away with it ( brainwashed ) as it then becomes a psychosis and is a dangerous practice.

It shouldn't ever become a main focus within a family.

Smileless2012 Thu 02-Jul-20 12:40:49

Chewbaccagrin I had no idea there was a 'Jedi Apprentice Book'.

Lolo81 Thu 02-Jul-20 13:26:57

Religion when weaponised like this is all about control. My faith is exactly that, mine and I do ascribe to a mainstream christian religion. The problem to me isn’t religion itself, but others wielding it like some sort of morality sword to try and control the beliefs of others. Which as many of you have pointed out flies directly in the face of the basis of most religions to treat other with respect and kindness.
I very much ascribe to the old saying of don’t talk religion or politics both are personal and should stay as such.
With that said I have seen many people (both EP/EC) in my life who have weaponised religious beliefs and it has caused estrangement, however I think the religious aspect of these disagreements simply masks and brings to the fore the real issues, like control and intolerance.

Smileless2012 Thu 02-Jul-20 13:31:31

Well said Lolosmile

Starblaze Thu 02-Jul-20 13:35:52

I'm an agnostic, My mind is open and I respect people's choices when it comes to faith except:

When they join extreme sects with prejudice or damaging views

When they use it to abuse/shame/control others

When they use it to appear innocent of their own terrible behaviour.

Having religion is never proof of goodness

Alexa Thu 02-Jul-20 13:44:26

Luckygirl, Unlike you I don't respect the beliefs of others. I do respect others' right to hold beliefs however silly or stupid. I can be as silly and stupid as anyone, and like to have my beliefs challenged. However many people dislike being challenged to I hold my tongue.

Madgran77 Thu 02-Jul-20 13:45:15

I dont really see why religion per se plays a part in estrangement. The individual interpretation of it might. So if someone who is following a religion might then use that as a reason for their actions and those actions might cause estrangement

An example I am aware of is Same Sex marriage which is now legal. Someone following to the letter the guidance in the Roman Catholic church would not attend a same sex marriage ceremony which is viewed as misuse of the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman. So parents might refuse to attend an ACs wedding. Or siblings. Or an AC who has a parent who has "come out".

In the same way with the quotes given, it would be the interpretation of those words that might cause actions that bring about estrangement, not the themes themselves. Although snuffed out is a new biblical term on me!