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Legal, pensions and money

Joining my father in his home.

(11 Posts)
Lawden Fri 08-Jun-12 17:14:45

I am 60 and have just retired and own a house and widowed.
My father has a 4 bedroom detached bungalow.
When my mother passed away in 2008 she left her half of the bungalow to me and I am now registered as a joint owner with my father on the land certificate.
My father has some physical problems and wants me to sell my house and live with him.
My main concern is if my father has to go into care could the council force the bungalow to be sold and I could be left homeless.
At present my father does not show any evidence of dementia type conditions and I see no reason for my father to have to go into care.
My father is now 87.

AlisonMA Fri 08-Jun-12 17:19:54

No, the council cannot force the house sale if there is someone else living in it but they can put a charge on it so that they get their money when it is eventually sold.

gracesmum Fri 08-Jun-12 17:44:57

Could you buy your father out so that the house is entirely in your name? I am assuming his half would have passed to you on his death anyway(?) Admittedly the proceeds would then be in his name, but if there are other heirs he could gift the maximum amount permitted to avoid inheritance tax?

PENMANA Fri 08-Jun-12 18:33:16

Have a look at Age Concern Factsheet 38 and the CRAG report.
You will see that the Council can not sell the bungalow as you will be an owner with a right to occupy the property. The Council could not put a charge on it.
The value of your fathers share is in effect nil if he has to go into care as nobody will want to buy half a bungalow with you in it probably for the next 45 years.
Also look at NHS continuing care as your father may not have to pay anyway if he is being placed in the home for health needs as opposed to social needs.
If a social worker says the property will have to be sold just say you are going to see a solicitor and there is a good chance your fathers care would be NHS funded straight away if it is a health issue as they know the NHS would lose if it goes to court.
Also do not fill in a financial assessment form at that stage and do not sign anything.
The NHS has got to get your father out of hospital. Not you.
I think Social Workers are told to try it on and backdown if the person knows the legal situation.

Penmana

Jacey Fri 08-Jun-12 18:43:22

I think you are safe if you are his named carer ...my cousin has moved in with his father and was also concerned about this ...he cannot be removed from the home, even if his father is taken into any form of residential care ...but he did seek legal advice first.

PENMANA Fri 08-Jun-12 19:00:31

Hi Jacey

I think at this stage the fact that Lawden is a part owner makes him safe at this stage.
Where is anybody named as a carer?.
If a person has no title to a home then they cannot be thrown out if they occupy it and are 60+.
If a person has given up a home to become a person's carer then the council has discretion not to throw an ex carer out but does not have to act on this discretion.
If Lawden sells the bungalow while his father is in care and buys a smaller property then the council could take some of the surplus proceeds.
Really Lawden wants to stay in the bungalow until his father passes away and assuming the father's half is willed to him Lawden will inherit all of the bungalow and he could then downsize and keep any surplus cash.

TendringGran Fri 08-Jun-12 20:13:36

Agree Penmana on how good the Age Concern Fact Sheets are. Social workers aren't told to try it on but have to work within the statutory guidance- in this case the Charging for residential accomodation guide (CRAG). Relevant section is 7.003- house is disregarded if occupied as sole residence by relative over 60. Sorry, but have been local authority SW for thirty years so don't like them trashed.

Separate to the legal stuff though, it seems a shame for Lawden to give up her new independence on retirement unless it is something she really wants to do. (this may be just me as I can't think of anything worse.........)

PENMANA Sat 09-Jun-12 09:20:32

Hi TenderingGran

I was in a very similar situation to Lawdon 2 years ago.
My mother had left me her half of the house and my father was taken into a home with dementia.
The house had 5 bedrooms and was worth about £500,000.
Dad only had £13,000 in savings.
She did say the house would have to be sold and the proceeds divided or I would have to pay up to half the value of the house towards his care.
I pointed out at first I was 60 but she replied I was 59 when Dad was admitted to the hospital.
I also pointed to the fact I was his carer and I owned half the house and Dads share was worthless if I decided not to sell and I was not going to sell.
She did say things like I would be restricted on the homes we could use and it was in his interest to self fund.
After stating I was going to see a solicitor about 15 minutes later it was decided Dad was entitled to NHS funding. Sadly my father passed away 4 months later.
The Social Worker was obviously totally out of order in saying the house would have to be sold and she did not tell me the council had to pay its usual rate for any home and I could have paid a top up.
It took 5 weeks to find a home which would take Dad as he had bad behaviour problems. It was good and it cost the NHS £1,050 a week.
When we met later the Social Worker said my father was costing the NHS a lot of money which was not right when he had £250,000 in a property but rules are rules.
From my point of view I am sure Dad would have been in the same home if I had paid.

shysal Sat 09-Jun-12 11:12:35

I listened to aRadio 4 Money Box Live programme on this subject (I think still available on iplayer). The advice given was exactly as PENMANA gave in her first post . A transcript of the programme will is available.

PENMANA Sat 09-Jun-12 11:22:38

Hi shysal

When was the programme broadcasted?.
I have really gained my knowledge through experience with my father and people pointing me in the right direction.

shysal Sat 09-Jun-12 11:23:16

Link for above programme, for transcript click a few lines below the photo.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/9720248.stm