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66 and not paid any national ins stamps

(47 Posts)
Chloejo Wed 20-Nov-19 20:26:34

I wonder if anyone can offer advice. my cousin has always worked in spain but has not paid uk national ins stamps. He wants to come home to the uk where he was born he wont be entitled to a state pension. would he be able to get any help here? he is entitled to Spanish pension which is very low. He is very worried now I know he has been foolish and should have paid national ins if you can do that.

Hetty58 Wed 20-Nov-19 20:31:14

I think that he'd be entitled to benefits to top up his Spanish pension. Age UK and Citizens Advice will be able to give him free information about it. This might help too:

www.entitledto.co.uk/

oldgimmer1 Wed 20-Nov-19 20:36:34

Tricky one.

I think he needs to have worked in the UK and paying NI for 10 years to get any state pension.

Try The Pensions Advisory Service for starters. CAB also helpful.

MawB Wed 20-Nov-19 20:40:34

Same post on another thread.
While I would wish to be sympathetic I have more time for women in this country who have paid NI all their working lives and are now having to wait additional years for their State Pension.

Hetty58 Wed 20-Nov-19 20:45:05

My friend (who has never worked) will be able to get Pension Credit when she is State Pension age. It tops up income to £167 a week at present.

jura2 Wed 20-Nov-19 20:49:04

Interesting question. For me, it's t'other way round. I have worked and paid stamps all my life in the UK- and now I am back where I was born and bred- not entitled to any pension here. Oh I wish as it would be an awful lot more than the meagre UK one, especially with the dreadful exchange rate.

Doodledog Thu 21-Nov-19 02:19:11

The whole thing is a mess. I agree with MawB, and whilst I don't want to be unkind, I feel that women who were able to afford to live off their husbands (and chose to do so) when they were working age should do so in retirement, unless they have a joint income below the point at which they can claim benefit.

That way, there would be more money in the kitty for those of us who have paid NI for decades but are now expected to limp on for another six or seven years. Hetty58's friend will get more than someone who has worked full time and paid in for over 35 years, which can't be fair, but people have to live, so it's not straightforward, is it?

I'm not sure how the reciprocal EU arrangements work; but I feel that whatever was in place when people were working should be honoured, and if people were led to expect a pension they should be able to claim it. Again, it is unfair to change the rules so late in the day.

craftyone Thu 21-Nov-19 06:47:51

I agree with Maw. I remember reading about paying NI as as separate person to my husband, so I did and now reap the reward. There was enough publicity at the time I also think that benefits given in the uk should be equivalent to that in their home country only

aggie Thu 21-Nov-19 07:43:42

I “ lived off my husband “ for part of our Marriage . Idled away my time ,living from hand to mouth with no state help , nursed the children , walked to and from school in all weathers , scraped together a Christmas and made and mended to survive.
I did manage to get back to work and am now on a reduced pension

GagaJo Thu 21-Nov-19 08:21:29

Having lived in Spain for a while, I'm pretty sure the Spanish system would not countenance for one second a Spanish retiree returning home after having made NO contributions into their system and expecting support in their retirement.

While living overseas I continued to pay Class 3 contributions to protect my UK pension. Ironically since now it seems I'll die before I'm able to retire.

Gaunt47 Thu 21-Nov-19 08:41:41

This same post appears in ask a gran under the thread title 'returning home to UK'

Yehbutnobut Thu 21-Nov-19 09:12:36

Asking ‘for a friend’? 🙄

EllanVannin Thu 21-Nov-19 11:19:40

What was unfair was the married woman's NI. I remember having a heated argument years ago before my NI was changed after I'd married as I'd been prepared to keep on paying the high-rate as a single because of the difference it would make in future years but because of red-tape and the bureaucracy that is encountered I wasn't allowed.

Why was I made to reduce my NI payment because I happened to have got married ? This was in 1959/60. There was no choice !

EllanVannin Thu 21-Nov-19 11:24:14

To cap all that, I couldn't draw on my late husband's pension because I wasn't pensionable age myself when he died, he was older than me.
I was meant to flog it all my life. What he hadn't done was to apply for his Merchant Navy pension being very ill at the time, so I've lost out on that as well !

Calendargirl Thu 21-Nov-19 11:34:45

If he’s ‘always’ worked in Spain, by that I assume you mean all his working life. If that’s the case, why should he come back here in retirement and expect to be kept?
No wonder it’s all such a mess, if the country pays out pensions, benefits, health care , for folk who haven’t contributed, no matter where they were born.

Yehbutnobut Thu 21-Nov-19 11:37:09

I find it hard to believe that anyone was ‘made to reduce’ their NI contributions. I certainly wasn’t.

Doodledog Thu 21-Nov-19 15:51:46

aggie That was your choice, and it’s a perfectly valid one. But surely you can see that women who chose to work and paid NI can feel short changed at being made to wait extra years for the pension they paid for, when those who didn’t contribute get the same, or even more if they are on benefits?

Everyone with children does the things you mention, and most work outside the home as well. Of course you wouldn’t have got state help if you were capable of working, unless your family income was low enough to qualify.

I have no issue with people who can afford to live on one salary choosing not to work, but it doesn’t seem fair that they should then expect a pension they haven’t paid for.

oldgimmer1 Thu 21-Nov-19 15:55:11

Er....we seemed to have strayed off the point of the OP. hmm

Doodledog Thu 21-Nov-19 16:25:30

True. Sorry, it’s a real trigger for me. I’ll shut up now. grin

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 17:16:38

If this person has worked on Spain throughout his adult life and contributed nothing to the British economy, why now should he expect anything from current British taxpayers. If this person has not accrued sufficient to allow for an unsupported living in the UK then he should remain in Spain.

Why does he wish to return to Britain for other than some "fantasy" to return to the land of his birth? I would suspect that he may be in need of our NHS and believes that somehow be will be able to procure some form of state handout better than what may be available to him in Spain

I like the vast majority (I am sure) who have resided on this Country through "thick and thin" over very many years and have through all that continually supported ourselves and our families from our own endeavours, I find such people's hope and wishes as the OP talks on completely unacceptable.

Should he return to this country and apply for any state service or Benefits then I would hope whoever receives such applications informs him he can F*CK RIGHT OFF.

apologies for the above but I find this person and thread totally "out of order" when we have in this country many who have paid into the various systems all they can for all of their lives and are still struggling, then this persons hopes should be "put down" in the very first instance.

Totally disgusting thread were no one should be advising this person on anything he may well try to claim.

welbeck Thu 21-Nov-19 17:23:03

is it fair that childless people pay for others' to be educated, or well people pay for others to use the NHS, or conversely those who die young, suddenly never get anything for what they have paid in...
it depends how you see society, whether you support the idea of the welfare state, how far you do, or whether you prefer a more American, every man for himself attitude.
there was a discussion on MN where an american said why should people who haven't paid get things, ie healthcare. and organs are given to people who can afford to pay for aftercare inc drugs. why waste an organ on someone who cannot maintain it. makes sense. why don't I agree...

MawB Thu 21-Nov-19 17:27:07

Grandad that is one of the most outspoken of your posts I have read in a long time.
And I have to say I totally agree with you
My BIL did likewise returning to the U.K. after a career in Singapore as a professor of a Literature. He has two sisters in Kent/London and being divorced feared a lonely old age. That much is understandable.
But, you should have heard him moan about the 1) state of the country 2) fears of not being eligible for NHS treatment 3) the absence of a State Pension blah blah blah
Yet somehow he seemed able to come up with the cash to buy a smart flat in Kent for not far short of £400k
He got no sympathy from either his brother( Paw) or anybody else. 😡😡

oldgimmer1 Thu 21-Nov-19 17:29:19

Plenty of people never "contribute" in terms of tax/NI though.

Fact is, if someone's entitled, they're entitled.

OP is simply asking a question about entitlement.

Seems a air enough question to me..

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 17:39:54

Welbeck, I am a very strong socialist but in that it is the core belief that this nation should support those who cannot support themselves through no fault or circumstance of their own making.

The subject of this thread is support that could or may be available to someone whose circumstances are lifelong entirely of their own making.

In such cases, people, as the one described, should receive nothing from the British State system.

He has alternatives available to him in the state he has worked all his adult life. Therefore if he cannot support himself in Britain in his retirement, then he should remain in Spain, as that is the country he has loved for so many years for reasons unknown to the members of this forum.

Eloethan Thu 21-Nov-19 17:44:48

It sounds like this gentleman does not have any money. It was unwise to not make any provision for his old age and now wish to return to the UK.

However, if he is still a British citizen and has not taken up citizenship in Spain, I think he should be entitled to return and receive a top-up on his Spanish pension. I doubt that he would be entitled to very much. Whilst not approving of his lack of forethought, I do feel he should be entitled to something (though I understand completely why some people feel differently).

In the case of your brother in law MawB, I would feel exactly as you do.