Gransnet forums

Legal, pensions and money

90 year old Dad being forced under duress to sell house to his partner

(24 Posts)
Awesomegranny Sun 04-Apr-21 20:58:50

Really worried about my 90 year old Dad. He’s currently living with his partner who is becoming increasingly moody and bad tempered, and he’s not happy. He’s just announced going to sell his house to his partner no doubt way under market value. I’m not happy as worried that should he need nursing care in the future there will be no money to pay for this. All I want is for my Dad to be happy as who knows how many years he has left. If all the money goes in care home fees that’s fine, but really don’t want his grumpy partner 75 year old benefiting by getting his house cheap. I don’t know whether he thinks he will continue to stay in his home, realistically I think she will force him out if she gets ownership. Has anyone had issues like this?

Bridgeit Sun 04-Apr-21 21:04:01

Citizens advice can help you with this.( I think it can be done on line or by phone )

DillytheGardener Sun 04-Apr-21 21:06:13

Also call Age UK they were useful for a friend who’s parent was in a near identical situation.

PippaZ Sun 04-Apr-21 21:29:26

If someone intentionally reduces their assets - such as money, property or income - so these won’t be included in the financial assessment for care home fees, this is known as ‘deprivation of assets’. If your local council concludes you have deliberately reduced your assets to avoid paying care home fees, they may still calculate your fees as if you still owned the assets.

Your father and his partner need to be very careful they are not putting themselves in this position. She may be worried that all the value of the house would go in care fees should that arise, leaving her homeless. They really need to get some advice on this.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

Awesomegranny Sun 04-Apr-21 21:37:53

She’s got her own place anyway, and gets rental income on

FarNorth Sun 04-Apr-21 21:59:04

Definitely get advice, as suggested already.

M0nica Tue 13-Apr-21 18:30:08

Speak to a solicitor. Age UK will probably have a list of suitably qualified solicitors.

I think that if the council decide there is a case of deprivation of assets, his partner could be required to return the money to his estate. I recommend clicking on the link PippaZ has given and then click on the link to the full Age UK Fact Sheet.

Katie59 Tue 13-Apr-21 19:53:18

As the partner has security of her own in the house that she rents out I would say stop the sale, she is trying to deprive his family of assets.
If he thinks she deserves a bequest in his will that would be a much more equitable way of showing gratitude.

M0nica Tue 13-Apr-21 20:29:58

Sorry, obvious question. Has he made a will? Is he in full possession of his faculties? Could he be seen as acting under duress? In these cases it is possible that a psychological or psychiatric examination can be required.

Oopsadaisy1 Tue 13-Apr-21 21:53:51

Get the house valued and tel your fathers partner how much she will up have to pay to buy it, it’s time for you to step in and protect your Father if necessary.

Don’t let her take advantage, if necessary get a Solicitor involved, a letter from them setting out his terms might make her stop and think about him offering the fair market value.

PippaZ Wed 14-Apr-21 11:15:34

I'm not sure anyone can deprive his family of assets Katie59. Not unless they have paid for and already have a share in the house or it is in trust. They are his not theirs.

It sounds as if it's his to dispose of as he wants so all that can be done is ensure the solicitor checks he is of sound mind if he makes the sale and that he has been warned that he may have difficulty with care if he does this and any other potential pit-falls. That is all up to the solicitor. The family could get in touch with them, I suppose. They will not be able to discuss the father but the family could ask them to note their concerns.

PippaZ Wed 14-Apr-21 11:19:40

All this is said assuming no one has PoA. Even if they have it is still HIS property and the Attorney has to carry out his wishes where possible, even if they don't agree. If they have worries about his capacity they could ask for an assessment but I'm not sure who you ask; it would probably be best to go through a solicitor to ensure all the Attorney's actions are seen to be above board.

NotSpaghetti Wed 14-Apr-21 12:01:44

If he is technically "of sound mind" I think, sadly, you are on dodgy ground.

Maybe he could be persuaded to give her an interest in the property to reflect their relationship?

luluaugust Wed 14-Apr-21 12:13:45

I would have a talk with a Solicitor if possible just to see what grounds if any you have legally for doing anything, after that I guess it depends how much you want to do over the price of the house and his security, if he insists on selling. Explain the potential difficulties with care. I would definitely make your presence felt so that if the partner is trying anything they know he is not on his own. At 90 he must be vulnerable.

loopyloo Wed 14-Apr-21 12:23:47

This does seem to be a safeguarding issue. I think he needs to have his own solicitor for advice. Does he have one can you arrange an appt for him? Or could the Office of the Public Guardian help you. Or perhaps raise concerns with his GP?
Hope all goes well.

M0nica Wed 14-Apr-21 17:53:11

Yes, if he decides to give all his money away, or sell the house cheaply to his partner, if he is in his right mind you cannot stop him.

But when I worked in the sector I met a lot of older people who were being inveigled and cheated out of their money by someone close, so other family members should always be alert and make sure, wheit they can, that whatever on older person does, they do it in an upfront and open way.

The best thing to do in this case is accept what he wants to do but try and insist that he gets proper legal advice and a He, not his partner arranges a proper valuation by a surveyor known to neither of them.

Katie59 Wed 14-Apr-21 19:43:01

He can indeed give his property to whoever he wants, but there are many cases where elderly people are tricked into signing over everything to a gold digger ( of either sex). If his family are alerted to this situation get in there quick and make sure that is what he really wants, and make sure all your siblings know.

A great Aunt of mine, after her husband died two long lost cousins appeared from overseas, to “care” for her, the will was changed and she was dead in a year, the local relatives who had been looking after them both for decades challenged the will and got half back. The newcomers went home with half a million, nice work if you can get it.

Grandma11 Wed 14-Apr-21 20:16:34

I went through a similar situation with my late Father, but the Solicitor handling his affairs refused to act on his behalf unless he could pass the Mental Capacity test, the standard Test used by the NHS, Legal profession, and Social services.
Needless to say that he failed it, and it then came to me as his Power of Attorney to act and make decisions on his behalf with his best interests taken into consideration, which l did and the legal action he was trying to do was stopped.

If in doubt, talk to his GP, and ask for a referral to the Elderly Mental Heath team for a Memory assessment Test to be carried out, and explain why you are concerned. Also inform his Solicitor of your concerns.

PippaZ Wed 14-Apr-21 20:34:31

It's good to hear what has been suggested worked in your case Grandmall, and ensured that you were protected too as his elected Attorney. That must have been a very sad position to be in but at least your were their to look after his interests.

PippaZ Wed 14-Apr-21 20:34:47

their there

Katie59 Thu 15-Apr-21 07:26:32

“It is a sad position to be in” but in some cases it has to be done.

One friend had problems with her husband who started transferring assets to his children. He would not see reason and the only way she could stop him was to threaten divorce to get her share. With that he backed down and she got power of attorney jointly with his son, it was a sad end to a 30yr marriage.
Dementure changes people, it might make them vulnerable or aggressive you can’t tell in advance, just be aware of changes.

RillaofIngleside Sat 17-Apr-21 11:30:29

When my mother and stepfather sold their flat, the solicitor would not act for my.mother because he thought she lacked capacity. I had to register my power of attorney to act on her behalf. There was no wrongdoing in my case, but I suggest you ring his doctor and raise your concerns with the solicitor.
If he sells the house too cheaply social services can look back to previous years and may regard it as deprivation of assets. Also, HMRC may also look into the value of the sale if there is inheritance tax to pay.

RillaofIngleside Sat 17-Apr-21 11:32:24

It may also be worth contacting social services if you think it is possible abuse of a vulnerable adult, it could be a safeguarding issue.

Savvy Sat 17-Apr-21 11:49:43

You really need to speak to a solicitor, he's going to need one anyway for any house sale to go through. They should, as matter of course, assess his mental capacity to make his own decisions and if they are in the slightest doubt, they can refuse to act.

If you suspect that the partner is gold digging, it may be worth asking what he intends to do with the money from the sale.