Orlando Shootings

The problem with the gun laws is its not universal in all the states. It needs to be a federal law. The ban on assault weapons was up in 2004 and was not renewed. You also have the NRA lobbying certain people and giving money to their campaigns. Obama has been stopped virtually at every turn from what he proposes by the Republicans. Clinton wants more gun control laws and Trump wants to kick the Muslims out. Very different views.

Good speech here by Trevor Noah about America's head in the sand approach to gun regulation. Someone calls it "USA – where comedians talk more sense than politicians".

I could not see the video but I could hear it.

Did anyone see a recent interview with a man in Belgium who wants euthanasia ( possible there) because he is Moslem and gay and can't stand the mental conflict?
That must be terrible. One turns it in and another turns it outwards?

Hi wife says she drove him to the club on several previous occasions. Who knows whether he was secretly gay? It's all very odd.

I did wonder whether that amount of hatred was covering up his fears about his own sexuality.

We're getting information in bits and pieces, unsurprisingly. It's being reported that the perpetrator had gay relationships, was on a gay dating app and had visited the club a number of times. It may be true and he wouldn't be the first gay man who had a 'secret' gay life. Despite the greater acceptance of gay/lesbian relationships, it remains difficult for Muslim people to be open if they are part of the LGBT community.

I'm reading that there's now suspicions that the shooter was gay himself and used to go to the club. I'm finding it all very befuddling

I have a problem with the US gun law and I accept that the US because of it does suffer from violence , fact.

BUT and it's a big BUT what will be the excuse for an attack say in Manchester if and when a similar slaughter took place?. I believe it will be firstly the Police at fault, then our Security Services, then the Government, then on and on to Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

The perpetrator/perpetrators, if it were a 'clone case' of what happened in Orlando, would be a Muslim Extremist/Extremists with an inbred hatred and desire for the killing of homosexuals which is part of their ideology. They and they alone are the ones that are guilty and to me the blame stops there, full stop.

Obviously there will be a detailed investigation into this shooting but until there is an acceptance, an understanding this is in all probability not going to be an isolated case and no country is safe, whether weapons are easily available or not! and we accept the deprived , barbaric levels the Radical Islamists will go to we will never stop finding excuses for those who willfully undertook the slaughter of another human being for their brainwashed ideology.

As much as there is blame directed toward the US gun law and the call to stop selling guns, where are the shouts of blame calling for the Radical Muslim preachings to be banned/irradicated that are reaching millions of followers. Which is more dangerous?

I now have to declare that I fully accept that the Muslim religion and those of the Muslim faith are to my belief as innocent of any connection to my previous words and thoughts in the involvement of the Orlando Shootings as I am.

This is a terrible tragedy, but if a country has the right to bear arms, as is the case in the US then it is inevitable that these atrocities will happen. My heart goes out to the families and friends of these young people.

There is no need to change the Second Amendment (the right to bear arms) in order to control the sale of assault weapons which are, after all, military designed and never intended for domestic use. There is a rapidly growing organisation which supports gun control, formed, I think, after the shooting in Connecticut in 2012. While it does not yet rival the NRA in strength, finances and "friends in high places", it is becoming increasingly vocal and increasingly powerful.

It is interesting that someone can be put on a no-fly list because they are a suspected terrorist threat but they can still buy guns, including assault rifles.

Yes, it's all very sad but there's this number of people, and more, killed every day in Syria, many of them children. That just seems to be accepted - certainly not this outpouring of grief for them. Children are dying every few minutes from malaria, dirty water and are hardly given a mention.

What is wrong with this world and some of the people in it? Needless, senseless violence.

Theresa May said seven UK terror plots had been disrupted in the last 18 months, all inspired by so-called Islamic State, with the overall threat level remaining at severe.

Another week another senseless murder spree in America. Doesn't matter what "hate" it came under the common denominator is semi automatic guns - the weapon of choice. Next week it'll be somewhere else, someone else's brother / sister / child.

Obama looked weary and resigned to the fact this probably won't be the last time he will give his speech before his term draws to a close as many Americans just don't care enough about people they don't know to actually say "no, enough is enough"

So the murders will continue (and likely increase if Trumpton gets in to th "White" house.

iam I wasn't using m.h. as an excuse for the murders, just pointing out that m.h. problems may be contributory factors. We don't know enough yet to form informed judgements.
In the link that nonio posted to the piece in the Conversation, the point is made that in other countries, the burden is on someone wanting to buy a firearm to prove that they have a legitimate use for it, and also that they don't have a history of mental illness.
If such checks had the norm in the US, most of the mass shootings if the last 20 years would not have happened.
The implication is that MH issues definitely are a contributory factor.

Yes, they nearly all 'pack heat' over there, even to go to the supermarket( not long ago a young mother was shot dead by her own 2 year old as they shopped in Walmart.She left her bag next to him in the trolley, he fished out her gun and.....)

In The I today Stefano Hadfield writes that he is visiting relatives in Boston. While talking about the Orlando shooting he mentioned that he had never even touched a gun. Immediate Shock, horror and disbelief from his relatives who all brought their guns out to show him. It's a totally different mind set, most Americans can't see anything odd about carrying loading weapons while not wanting people to be shot.

Swimhome has a point - it's unlikely that anything 'out there' in the world will change until people's heads and hearts change.

I have never understood the right to bear arms. After all, guns were/are designed and manufactured specifically to kill. They don't have any other function that I'm aware of.

And yes, why indeed are we so obsessed with violence as entertainment?

And janeainsworth, I wonder about the notion that we all have murderous feelings at times. When I thought about it I remembered feeling as if I could be violent towards the other girl my boyfriend started seeing when I was 16. And then again when my son was bullied at school and the school weren't interested in the problem. Happily, I was able to control my feelings and deal with the issues in a more socially acceptable manner. That's civilisation I guess, and one of the things that differentiates us from animals.

I think the man in Norway was declared sane because if not the courts would have had to reexamine his case annually. Possibly too traumatic for the country.
I watch murders and read them but with the firm belief that justice and goodness will be the outcome. I doubt if I am alone. I see it as a form of protection against all the un solved murders in real life.

The issue of the Norweigan mass murderer who was declared sane doesn't mean that the perpetrator in the US shooting may not have had m.h. issues such a bi polar. Bi polar would be very unlikely to lead him to mass murder but being a psychopath or being in the middle of a psychotic episode might.

I wasn't using m.h. as an excuse for the murders, just pointing out that m.h. problems may be contributory factors. We don't know enough yet to form informed judgements.

Swimhome - I agree with you saying there is so much murder on our TV screens. It's no wonder nutters go round mindlessly killing people, they only have to watch TV to get their ideas formulated for rape and murder. Its amazes me that this joined up thinking has not dawned on the TV broadcasters and the governments.

I think Nonio is right about the USA contrasted with other countries. My own DS, Dil and DGC live in California and I worry about the gun issue. (Yes we have some knife crime here in the UK, but if the perpetrator in Florida had used a knife, there would surely have been far, far, fewer casualties, if any.) What is needed is for every USA state to address/change their gun laws - and even if it took decades to get this sorted, it would surely be better than just not addressing this issue and maintaining the status quo on gun access.

Yes, they said he wanted to join the police force, and I think that he was doing some kind of preliminary training.

thatbags - I think that Twitter article sums up perfectly what most people think.

janet when his father was on tv I thought he said this man was joining the police force but on reading these posts thought I must be mistaken, did you hear him say anything like that?

I don't know if he felt in his insanity that Islam is in favour of going out with a gun and shooting randomly, or if it was because Allah objects to gays - perhaps both. I do feel that it is time that the world realised that the Prophet's message was similar to Christ's - an enlightened one - and the teachers of all world faiths should explain to their believers that the Deity/Deities/humanitarian conscience/whatever you choose to believe in wish us to learn to love, understand and tolerate all of mankind and the sooner we stop people running around with weapons killng wildlife and humans, the better.