Given up on Brexit

Its strange how Brexiteers blame remainers for the chaos rather than the incompetence of the government. May didn’t need to call an election which backfired on her, she should have sacked the useless Davis and Johnson aeons ago, and instead of throwing herself behind the extreme right and robotically chanting “ Brexit means Brexit”she should have aimed for a soft Brexit from the start to unite the country. All remainders are doing is pointing out the omnishambles the government have got themselves in.

I am a brexiteer but I can’t blame the remainers for the shambles.
Dave should not have called for a referendum before looking at the ramifications, having a plan whichever way the vote went and then running when the country threw his toys out of the Pram.
I truly think that TM has tried her best in an extremely difficult situation, totally unsupported by the brexiteers or the remaners in the cabinet.

Isn't it interesting how people can have completely different opinions about the same scenario! I agree of course that the government is in chaos and the brexit negotiations are a shambles but in my view it is the hard brexiteers who have caused the problem. Brexit was not the will of the people -only half of them. That's why a soft brexit makes more sense. I do object to being told I want chaos and don't love my country because I have a different opinion. And Jeremy Cotbyn (though I don't think he is right for PM is not a friend of our enemies and not a commun ist and certainly doesn't want to ruin our country -what a distortion of the facts!
It's my opinion that brexit will ruin the country but a soft brexit is much better than a hard one.
I too worry about the future of our country and that of the grandchildren. My biggest worry is climate change which is progressing faster and faster and will soon be irreversible . This will affect our grandchildren's future and neither party is doing anything about it. Everything else that is happening will be irrelevant in 100 years.

Pamela I agree with you even though I didn't vote for Brexit. None of us knew what we were voting for, the whole referendum thing was a disaster.

It has become painfully obvious that we had a great deal of autonomy while within the EU, that much of the legislation was either proposed by the UK or supported by us.
There is no way we can be as successful economically or socially out as we are in.
Airbus & BMW pit the hard facts, and Brexiteers stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'Project fear'.
And Brussels hasn't been antagonistic. They have pointed out the EU is based on the 4 Freedoms, but without compromising that they would do anything to keep us in. They know the strength of alliances.

I don’t think I am to blame because I voted to leave May has got us in this situation boris is only after the pm job he is just wait8ng in the wings.
You brexiters have got us in this mess you didn’t realise what this ment. You have ruined it for our young people my gd said that you are the cause of all the problems.
Some of you thought it would just stop emigration well it ain’t it doesn’t work like that. Much as I hated thatcher she would never left us in this situation Cameron is to blame.

Brexit was not even the will of half the electorate, given that only 72% bothered to cast a vote!!

PamelaJ1 - I completely agree with you. How this referendum could have even been considered without a plan in place is beyond belief.

Completely agree.

Ha ha ha at it being the fault of the remainers. The Brexiteers haven’t been able to produce a workable solution despite being given the opportunity to do so.

—Slogans— lies on the side of a bus was the easy bit

The side of the bus referred to when we had LEFT the EU! So far we haven't, so who's to say whether it was a con or not!

It is a complete mess and caused by the Right wing of the Conservative party. Unfortunately Cameron thought he could keep that quiet once and for all by having a referendum. I was not at all surprised he walked away when the Leavers won because it was so absurd and won on lies and on peddling outdated dreams to people.
Of course the electorate could reacted to to the austerity measures that had been erroneously put in place since the bankers were bailed out. And blamed immigrants. The fact there was no money left was nothing to do with Labour spending too much on welfare.
In such a state May took the helm, she should have forced a hard brexiteer to take it.
People are deluded, I remember what dire straights the UK was in before we joined the common market we had to apply a few times to be accepted. How you couldn't Take more than £50 abroad. Devaluation, IMF borrowing, not this fantasy empire people have been led to believe.
People like Rees Mogg like being in charge, they are stistocrats, and the EU stopped their excesses.
We are in a stupid mess. Of course we should have stayed round the negotiating table with the best terms of any in the biggest market. Only caricatures like Rees Mogg stopped it with his self important seductive lies. And the left and the moderates weren’t quick enough to bat it away so astonishing it was that it would be believed.
My only problem with Corbyn is that he still has an old fashioned dream of Socialism which he feels could not be achieved in the EU as he still sees it as a capitalist force.
We need a remainer with some fast talking brains and charisma...we need a press that doesn’t peddle racism and lies. A long way to go. At least Davis and Johnson have gone.
I wish the young had voted more they shouldn’t blame the old for voting Leave they just didn’t bother to vote. (Of course I voted Remain with all the faults in the EU you only had to look at the Leavers to know what side you were on.

‘Call me Dave’ certainly opened a can of worms when he promised a referendum. This was done in the hope of silencing those members of the Cabinet & MP’s who wanted out of the EU. It backfired spectacularly because the elites in power are remainers mostly and Dave thought it would be a done deal. He didn’t factor in the feelings of the pleb voters though - and he probably thought by using government monies to print leaflets & have them delivered (at no small cost) to every household in the country, explaining the dire consequences of leaving - that he’d won. He showed his true colours by resigning. He obviously wasn’t a PM for the whole of the country after all ... just the remainers.

I'm all FOR leaving the EU but May is nor Thatcher. I want to see someone who will get us out but not by any means a 'soft brexit'.
Hopefully, as more and more of the population demand that we leave, there will be a hardening of the decisions May makes and she does what is right for this country, which is to get us 100% back in charge of our laws, finances, trade and decisions. No putting money into the EU gravy boat.

Sometimes, a little 'cut and paste' is the only way ;)

Irish Times: “When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself.”

www.irishtimes.com/…/fintan-o-toole-britain-has-gon…

Washington Post: “Brexit turned out to be harder than they thought — so the Brexiteers are quitting”

www.washingtonpost.com/…/brexit-is-reaching-its-g…/…

Le Monde: “Boris Johnson failed to show any leadership”

www.lemonde.fr/…/boris-johnson-n-a-pas-su-montrer-l…

New York Times: “Britain is in this mess principally because the Brexiteers — led largely by Mr. Johnson — sold the country a series of lies in the lead up to the June 2016 referendum”

mobile.nytimes.com/…/boris-johnson-resignation-brex…

Washington Post: “The intellectual dishonesty of the Brexit Taliban is now in full view”

www.washingtonpost.com/…/the-intellectual-dishone…/…

As more and more of the population begin to see the likely result of brexit, more prefer to Remain. Recent polls have consistently shown a small lead for Remain.

We are constantly told that 17m people voted leave. What about the 48m who did not? They are not just those who did not bother to vote, but might if they were better informed, or those who were too young, but also 3m EU citizens living in the UK and paying taxes (what happened to "no taxation without representation?")

Why be called a "Pleb" because you have a different vision than somebody else? Many of those 'Plebs' are highly intelligent who did their research and made their decisions based on it. I don't particularly want to leave the EEU but I do think it needs radically reforming. Where else would you have unaudited accounts where you have Billions going through the coffers? It's difficult enough to get 28 GN'ers to agree, how likely then is it to make unanimous decisions with 28 countries all safeguarding their own interests? Maybe if the powers that be were less obsessed with consolidating their powers with a Federal Europe and listened a little more carefully to their members, not just the English ones either, we wouldn't be in this mess. There are faults on all sides here and revelling in the situation we find ourselves in, doesn't help anybody.

To all those remainers, I say this.
You don't have to be in bed with someone in order to have a relationship. Some of the longest lasting relationships are where the participants do not live in each other's pockets.
If we put up with being the sub in the EU partnership (as we have far too often, in order to get some crumbs) then don't be surprised if we get f*****.

Very few members here will remember all the lies we were told by Edward Heath and co which swung the vote for us to join the EEC. The vitriol then does not quite compare to any we have had over the Brexit referendum.

What we may see is that our politicians then and now have not been up to the job. But what I believe is the essential point is that the politicians are not the UK. Our nation of Brits will prevail as we always have done whatever the difficulties. Perhaps we need to pay more attention to democracy and to choosing which politians to vote for.

The present party system is not encouraging better people to stand.

"Like Russia" you do know Russia is now a capitalist country and not the old cold war enemy? You can have a privileged upbringing and still have empathy for those with less. I find it incredibly odd that you point out Corbyn's privilege but omit to mention the 'elite' in the government. The country is led by a bunch of narcissistic morons, who couldn't organise a raffle never mind Brexit.
If the country is destroyed for future generations, I suggest you look at yourself for the reasons why. After all you chose a government that is hell bent on destruction.

Both the Leavers and Remainers lead us a merry dance before the referendum. The leavers didn't have a clue as to how we would leave. Teresa May - is she trying to help the Tory Party or Great Britain - the former I guess.

jura2
You believe all you read or just cherry pick the quotes that serve a particular purpose?

PamelaJ Ditto. I am not a Tory supporter but no one else would take the job and she did step up and it was never going to be easy.
Cameron called a quick referendum to get it out of the way so that he could carry on with things that he thought important. That is the arrogance of the establishment. The press also didn't do their job because instead of having information about how the EU works (both sides have spouted total inaccuracies particularly as to what the commission is and how it works but about many aspects) which in the past the press would have had explanations about. It is the kind of thing the pre-Murdoch Times used to do very well.
There is a rumour that Johnson resigned to stand against her and it will be interesting to see if they are true.

I agree icanhandthemback. My word choice of ‘pleb’ was meant to illustrate the contempt that most - not all admittedly - of our ruling class (the elites) have for the electorate. Not my personal view so I’m sorry if I inadvertently gave offence. ?
Leavers being told they didn’t understand what they were voting for! Really? Even after all those leaflets? They bear re-reading sometime!