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Corbyn's long game - driving journalists crazy- and you?

(258 Posts)
jura2 Mon 18-Mar-19 11:55:08

Certainly me- same with his close acolytes- never ever answering a direct question:

news.sky.com/video/share-11668308?fbclid=IwAR3pTX4HLh5lBMtW5RcJlHzr1lb9_vbZfvib1NDK2Oa5CGxy-8mO_ZxgyI0

What about you? He is still going on about being able to quickly negotiate a Norway style deal without any of the strings and responsibilities attached.

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 20:35:38

Rubbish , he doesn’t want a second referendum so his pathetic ‘take it back to the people’ is just another wriggly worm performance, he is pathetic

trisher Tue 28-May-19 11:00:26

I still wonder (and no one has yet explained to me) how we are to get a second referendum without a GE? But I wait for those who know so much to explain it to me.

Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 11:14:04

Perhaps MacDonald, Abbott, Watson could explain it to you trisher they are calling for it so surely they have thought it through

varian Tue 28-May-19 12:53:55

Alistair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party for voting LibDem in the EU election.

Meanwhile Lord Ashcroft has polled 10,000 people asking how they voted this time and in the last GE. He found that-

"More than half (53%) of 2017 Conservative voters who took part in the European elections voted for the Brexit Party. Only just over one in five (21%) stayed with the Tories. Around one in eight (12%) switched to the Liberal Democrats. Labour voters from 2017 were more likely to stay with their party, but only a minority (38%) did so. More than one in five (22%) went to the Lib Dems, 17% switched to the Greens, and 13% went to the Brexit Party."

lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/05/my-euro-election-post-vote-poll-most-tory-switchers-say-they-will-stay-with-their-new-party/

So 62% of those who voted Labour in 2017 did not vote Labour this time. 22% voted LibDem, so it is quite reasonable to suppose that this includes many Labour Party members. Will they all be expelled?

trisher Tue 28-May-19 13:03:38

Not unless they all go on TV and boast about it varian!

jura2 Tue 28-May-19 13:07:49

I belong to several pro remain sites, 1 representing expats in France - and their reaction to Alistair Campbell being expelled- is that it is time for all labour remainers to expel themselves (many, including myself- did that 2 years ago)...

There are many on this thread and others who Corbyn 'haters' and probably LP too. Personally, this is NOT my case - I was a LP member myself, voted Labour, and have never been anti Corbyn, and did admire him in many ways. I feel totally disinfranchised and massively disappointed now. I have joined BOTH Lib Dems and Greens.

varian Tue 28-May-19 13:09:09

I heard what Alistair Campbell said. He was asked directly how he had voted and said "LibDem" then explained why. Far from boasting, he was telling the truth about how disappointed he felt in the Labour Party leadership, and his words were tinged with sadness.

Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 13:16:17

Will labour party members who were interviewed on tv and said they had voted for Brexit be expelled , some were in
Islington

trisher Tue 28-May-19 13:16:24

I saw it as well varian never sure with AC when he is simply playing for effect. He is after all the master manipulator. I would imgine there were many looking for an excuse to get rid of him anyway. He must have made a lot of enemies when he was top-dog. That's the problem with behaving the way he did, it comes back to get you. It's a case of "Be Nice to people on the way up ...."

Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 13:27:38

Alastair joins Frank Field who was forced to leave the party.

Ken Livingstone resigned after being suspended and was paid glowing tributes by Corbyn

jura2 Tue 28-May-19 13:35:24

And Kate Hoey, who stood by Farage all along the campaign- is still there???

trisher Tue 28-May-19 13:39:09

Alistair and Frank now there's a combination some would have imagined impossible!!!

jura2 Tue 28-May-19 15:33:52

<iframe width='640' height='480' title='ooyala-player' frameborder='0' allowfullscreen src='//player.ooyala.com/static/v4/stable/4.32.8/skin-plugin/iframe.html?ec=8xNjF2aDE6r_HplObvuOmsJi4fAECzNy&

lemongrove Tue 28-May-19 15:38:14

I like Frank, but not Alistair, I expect A will be taken back into the fold ( if he promises never to vote for the Lib Dems
Ever again😄

jura2 Tue 28-May-19 15:48:18

Tom Watson:

'"My concern is the speed in which that happens. It's too late to consult our members and change the policy at conference. We need to do it sooner.

"And that's why we either need a special conference or a ballot of our members to change the policy.

"Because a very small number of people on our NEC decided that European manifesto and it was quite clearly an electoral catastrophe for Labour. And we can't allow that to happen again."

The EU-wide vote saw the party slump to just 14% of the vote, shedding ten MEPs and coming in behind the Brexit Party and the Liberal Democrats. The party was also wiped out in Scotland, and placed behind Plaid Cymru in Wales.

Mr Corbyn's vow to consult members on the party's Brexit policy came amid mounting criticism of Labour's European elections strategy from MPs, and just hours after Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry said candidates had been let down by the party hierarchy's refusal to explicitly support a second EU referendum.

"We should have said quite simply that any deal that comes out of this government should be put to a confirmatory referendum and that Remain should be on the ballot paper and that Labour would campaign to Remain," she said.

Diane Abbott, another key frontbench ally of Mr Corbyn, said the party needed to "listen to our members and take a clearer line on a public vote".'

Ginny42 Tue 28-May-19 15:57:22

How do we know how other LP MPs voted anyway? Campbell was asked a direct question. Seems a strange question and he chose to answer it honestly.

Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 16:17:08

I wish those labour members in the house and the lords who voted for the Libs would speak out

jura2 Tue 28-May-19 17:31:40

Wonder how Kate Hoey voted ;)

jura2 Wed 03-Jul-19 11:15:45

Truly feel a bit better and more optimistic today- as Lisa has clearly and publicly stated that Labour wants to Deal and will try to negotiate one ... but failing that- will work tirelessly to stop No Deal with allies, and strongly push to Revoke Article 50.

So, perhaps the Long Game may turn out to avert disaster at the very last minute. Good on you Lisa.

jura2 Wed 03-Jul-19 12:41:34

It's about time Jeremy Corbyn categorically stated the same, and McCluskey too- because it it his members who are currently suffering most, and will be the massive losers of No Deal.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 13:48:28

So, has the time come for Corbyn to make place for someone new, younger and who can try and unite the Party and present a very strong opposition to No Deal?

For me, the answer is a resounding 'YES' - and I am not anti Corbyn. He is a great activist and I agree with many of his policies.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 14:32:43

Corbyn must now choose, join the Alliance for reason or make way.

Excellent article by Will Hutton in Guardian, part here:

'What to do? The best of Britain must mount a united, full-fronted roar in response, protecting our values and advocating a wholly different programme to sustain our integrity and inclusiveness as a country while making common cause with the EU. Yes, our capitalism will need to be reshaped, our political system overhauled and our social contract refashioned. But first and foremost comes EU membership, foundational for the rest.

No united front is possible without the Labour party. Johnson has scorned Jeremy Corbyn as a Remainer. The Labour leader should glory in the epithet, own it and turn it to his advantage – there is now no room for dissimulation and triangulation. In a de facto civil war initiated by the Brexit right, there is no middle ground. We are in a battle for the very idea of a country and the Labour leadership has to reaffirm that it is a national party and will in the national interest reach across party lines. Johnson’s Brexit Tories, and their slavish fifth columnist press, are the new sectarian enemy.

Labour has to make the case for Remain as the base for a wider common programme that it will negotiate with the Liberal Democrats, Greens and even dissident liberal Tories. Nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales should be welcomed to sign up; the promise will be a federal Britain inside the EU. They may refuse, but many of their voters will not.'

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 14:36:09

Of course it is Grandad 'Oh, this crisis is nothing to do with the Tory Party whatsoever. grin

Excuses.....Excuses......Excuses, as usual from the right wing on the forum.'

But now is the time for the LP to step up to the plate and help prevent disaster - NOW. And very large numbers, both in and out of LP, both Corbyn admirers and 'haters', agree he is not the one to lead this. Procrastinating by LP will mean No Deal, in just a few weeks time. Surely you can see this? And I am no Corbyn hater, for sure.

lemongrove Sun 28-Jul-19 14:38:23

Grany the point about the present LP under Corbyn’s
Leadership ( or lack of) is that the party membership have become more and more anti-semitic overall.Who to blame?
Corbyn of course, as that’s where the buck stops.

lemongrove Sun 28-Jul-19 14:43:00

Doesn’t anyone wonder how things would be going if the LP had been in government ( had May lost the GE)?
He would no doubt have had a similar deal to May, but Parliament would have turned it down just the same, and the present situation would be replicated.
With Parliament being so divided nothing would have been accepted by them.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 14:46:37

This thread is NOT about anti-semitism lemon- please.

Anniebach Sun 28-Jul-19 14:52:30

Are centre left posters allowed to post ? Or only the far left ?

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 14:54:59

Anyone can post, you know that - and I am certainly NOT far left. This thread is very specific and not about anti-semitism.

Anniebach Sun 28-Jul-19 14:59:07

Can the present Labour Party and anti semetism be seperated ?

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 15:13:05

Yes, in the OP's context. Thanks.

POGS Sun 28-Jul-19 15:19:46

Is Labour a Party of REMAIN or LEAVE.?

On one hand Corbyn has stated if there were a 2nd Refendum Labour will campaign to REMAIN.

BUT. If Labour were in power it would negotiate a DEAL and LEAVE.

The codswallop of the manta Labour wants to protect jobs, Workers Rights and the environment hence would not sign the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement was seen for the sham it has always been to get a General Election.

Theresa May offered Labour concessions after talks , knowing it was political suicide and her job, the following 10 point concessions :-

The commitments would be guaranteed in law and include:

1. A legal commitment to conclude alternative arrangements to replace the Northern Ireland backstop by December 2020, so it never needs to be used

2. A commitment that, should the backstop come into force, the Government will ensure that Great Britain's border rules stay aligned with Northern Ireland.

3. Negotiating objectives and final treaties for the UK's future relationship with the EU will have to be approved by MP's.

4. A new Workers' Rights Bill offering protections at least as favourable as those in the EU.

5. No change in the level of environmental protection when the UK leaves the EU.

6. As close to frictionless trade with the EU as is possible once the UK has left the single market but an end to free movement of people.

7. A commitment to align the UK with EU rules for goods and products to protect thousands of jobs dependent on just-in-time supply chains.

8. A commitment to allow MPs to decide on future customs arrangements with the EU.

9. A vote for MPs on whether the deal should be subject to a Referendum.

10.A legal duty to secure changes to the current political declaration agreed with Brussels to reflect the new deal.

Labour achieved what it asked for and Theresa May gave concessions but Labour were out of the stalls still relying on the tired old mantra of the workers rights, environment angle, as they are to date.

Getting a Deal has become harder without passing the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement but that does not faize Labour as they still think a General Election, their sole aim is in sight.

They could be right now Boris Johnson is Leader of the Tories but they have played a political game and 3 years of flip flop from the likes of Corbyn/Keir Starmer/ Barry Gardiner down the electorate still do not know if Labour is a party of REMAIN or LEAVE

POGS Sun 28-Jul-19 15:23:54

Jura

"Anyone can post, you know that - and I am certainly NOT far left. This thread is very specific and not about anti-semitism."
-

Many threads are specific but you yourself deviate from the OP, it happens.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 16:01:39

yes it does, and yes I do. But it is not helpful to just shout 'anti-semitism' anytime the LP is mentionned. So this is a polite request to stick to Corbyn's current position on Brexit. Thanks.

Anniebach Sun 28-Jul-19 16:14:14

How can his current position on Brexit be discussed ? He hasn’t decided

Grandad1943 Sun 28-Jul-19 16:15:47

jura2 Quote [ Of course it is Grandad 'Oh, this crisis is nothing to do with the Tory Party whatsoever. grin

Excuses.....Excuses......Excuses, as usual from the right wing on the forum.' End Quote.

jura2, what you quote above was stated by me in an alternative thread today. I have not gone back through previous posts in this thread, but I feel sure I have not made a post here for a least two weeks.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 16:16:51

Yes, you are correct.

POGS Sun 28-Jul-19 18:10:55

So is Labour a LEAVE or REMAIN Party as of today?

Has there been a concrete answer with a General Election looming?

Anniebach Sun 28-Jul-19 18:16:35

They will vote against ‘no deal’, that’s as far as they have reached.

Corbyn wants out so he isn’t going to fight for remain.

jura2 Sun 28-Jul-19 18:30:55

Grandad- your wisdom is required here

Anniebach Sun 28-Jul-19 18:45:11

Not by all

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 09:42:24

and what now?

Grany Fri 09-Aug-19 13:56:04

The Prime Minister should have the confidence to put their deal, or No Deal, back to the people in a public vote.

In those circumstances, I want to make it clear that Labour would campaign for Remain against either No Deal or a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs.

Anniebach Fri 09-Aug-19 14:11:41

But labour does not want a people’s vote and Corbyn is not a supporter of remain

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 14:41:15

Grany: '... a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs.'

such a deal is just not possible - that has been made clear again and again, and it totally makes sense. It is not the EU being 'difficult' or 'intransigeant' - it is just plain common sense that no country can ask for all the advantages, but none of the responsibilities.

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 14:47:31

... and without the backstop or proper arrangements for the EU/Irish border and UK/NI border- that protects EU countries' interests fairly, and respect the Good Friday Agreement.

It doesn't matter it Mrs May asks, or Johnson or Corbyn - it just can't and won't happen.

POGS Fri 09-Aug-19 20:38:08

Grany

Grany Fri 09-Aug-19 13:56:04

"In those circumstances, I want to make it clear that Labour would campaign for Remain against either No Deal or a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs."
----

Corbyn has said in a 2nd Refendum / Peoples Vote Labour would campaign to ' Remain', agreed.

BUT

Corbyn says if Labour won a General ection Labour would negotitiate a better deal than the Conservatives.

Hence the question that is simple.

Is Labour a Party of Remain or Leave????

jura2 Fri 09-Aug-19 21:10:09

yep THAT is the question- some are, some are not and everything in between. It's a mystery sad

POGS Wed 14-Aug-19 12:00:11

Anybody!

Is Labour a LEAVE or REMAIN Party?

Anniebach Wed 14-Aug-19 12:08:37

They haven’t decided,

jura2 Wed 14-Aug-19 16:05:06

I think most of them have decided, Jeremy as not sad and McCluskey is pulling the strings anyhow.

Urmstongran Wed 28-Aug-19 20:31:53

Has anyone seen Jeremy's performance in that brief ITV news interview ?

Is this a PM in waiting ?? - his mini speech was so poor that it's beyond parady.

Momentum have done this country a huge disservice.

Urmstongran Wed 28-Aug-19 20:32:09

*parody

lemongrove Wed 28-Aug-19 20:55:56

Yes, I saw that, Corbyn wasn’t in the least angry, his tone belied his words, and we all know that he wants us to leave the EU, but he not a good enough actor to convince anyone is he?

Opal Wed 28-Aug-19 20:58:05

Urmstongran - God forbid he's a PM in waiting, I can't think of anything worse for this country.

jura2 Wed 28-Aug-19 21:00:02

oh I can - Johnson or any from ERG.

Grandad1943 Wed 28-Aug-19 22:42:10

If a vote of no confidence is carried by the House of Commons next week or Britain crashes out of the European Union with no deal and there is widespread disruption in the supply chain, then Jeremy Corbyn will be very much a Prime Minister in waiting.

The above would certainly be the end of the ERG/Tory party without a doubt.

Stock up your Brexit cupboards Ladies ready for panic buying as Johnsons no-deal Brexit approaches.

Having had a working connection with the Road Transport industry for over forty years, we have.

lemongrove Wed 28-Aug-19 22:47:23

Ready for panic buying? But that would be panic buying if we did as you suggest!
I’m not stocking up with anything ahead of time.