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Corbyn's long game - driving journalists crazy- and you?

(258 Posts)
jura2 Mon 18-Mar-19 11:55:08

Certainly me- same with his close acolytes- never ever answering a direct question:

news.sky.com/video/share-11668308?fbclid=IwAR3pTX4HLh5lBMtW5RcJlHzr1lb9_vbZfvib1NDK2Oa5CGxy-8mO_ZxgyI0

What about you? He is still going on about being able to quickly negotiate a Norway style deal without any of the strings and responsibilities attached.

Grany Tue 21-May-19 10:00:46

Anniebach And how did he do that with the help of his pal Murdock of the Sun Now Blair is advising Saudi leader getting paid handsomely. Tories selling arms to Saudi to bomb Yemen Blair was not true Labour

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 10:05:52

Granddad1943. You chuckle because bereaved parents were forced to pay towards the removal of tips, one of which had killed their children ? At the demands of the unions,

the winter of discontent, the unions again, which caused the country to vote for the Thatcher years

If you spout on about 1945, I will continue to bring up 1966
And 1983

trisher Tue 21-May-19 10:40:51

Annie even if you choose to call a teapot a milk jug it remains a tea pot. Just as Corbyn is internationally recognised for his anti-racist views and actions and his attempts to broker peace, no matter what you choose to call him he remains what he has always been a true socialist, an anti-racist and a peace campaigner. The Labour party now is a true socialist party and the fact that you have abandoned all socialist beliefs is really not their fault.
Perhaps you could try posting some things you do believe in then we can judge for ourselves your political views. At present I just assume that they are somewhat similar to those of Margaret Thatcher.

lemongrove Tue 21-May-19 11:05:09

......and now Corbyn is internationally recognised as a weak dithering fence sitter on just about any topic or policy, who would never as a PM be any threat to any country so they could do as they liked.

lemongrove Tue 21-May-19 11:07:26

Those who see Corbyn for what he is are not Thatcher clones, many LP voters want a new leader, and many LP MP’s do too!

lemongrove Tue 21-May-19 11:11:36

You forget trisher that the LP requires voters who are not the same thing at all as LP members.Corbyn is held in contempt by many voters.Labour should have sailed to victory long before now, it’s Corbyn they don’t like.

trisher Tue 21-May-19 11:11:58

I don't want my country to be a threat to anyone (not that we could be). I would prefer that we became an integral part of anti-war and a peace process. The evidence that war doesn't work and never results in peace or a settled community is something we have learned from experience. As it is our policies have resulted in deaths, torture and terrorism, so if that is what you want I guess you wouldn't want Corbyn.

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 11:15:21

trisher I am not here for you and who ever ‘we’ are to judge . Not wise to assume anything about other posters ,

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 11:16:16

Sorry This is the leader where a female Jewish MP needed protection at her own conference

Come off it.

And the Second World War worked! Or would you rather now be living in a nazi caliphate

lemongrove Tue 21-May-19 11:19:09

Yes, in times when we are threatened let’s just sit down, link arms and sing peace songs, that’ll work! Maybe offer an aggressor a lentil casserole and some mint tea.
In any case, it’s not about real potential war situations, but
Being strong with wording, think about what Corbyn said in Parliament ( what a plonker....he was on his own with that, well, he and Seamus Milne!) about what the Russians did in Salisbury.
He is hopeless as a leader and would be catastrophic as a PM.

Margaux Tue 21-May-19 11:25:57

I can't help feeling that the May Deal is the right way forward - we can have our own independent policy in Services, which is our strong suit. And I for one can't see much wrong with a customs arrangement, or even a customs union, to let us benefit from the global strength and expertise of the EU as the biggest, or one of the biggest trading blocs in the world. As far as I can see, the reason we do not export more in goods is not the EU - countries like Germany and France do better than us - but our poor productivity.

Pity that May has been let down by some in her own party as well as by others who want either No Deal or No Brexit, or who sit on the fence, all of whom will not compromise to get her sensible Brexit deal through - even though she's listened to them and will try to meet their points.

I wonder sometimes whether it is our fault, as the public, that we have tended to be blinded by the stardust of
political show people, failing to support the quiet woman in Downing Street. What do you think?

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 11:27:07

Corbyn supported the IRA, said Hamas are his friends , not forgetting he is dishonest, was at a wreath laying ceremony for terrorists who tortured then murdered Olympic athletes but doesn’t know if he was involved. Who admire an anti semetic wall mural then said ‘it was anti semetic I didn’t look closely at it.

Said he had never met an IRA terrorist, when it was disclosed he had shared a platform with them remained silent so Diane Abbott said he did share a platform but didn’t speak to them.

So I do not trust him to carry out his policies , he is not a man to be trusted

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 11:29:35

I have to say lemongrove I honestly have a huge social circle of all types so builders doctors teachers etc and I don’t know anyone, even my sister and my dad who are dyed in the wool labour, think he’s electable or would be anything other than a catastrophic PM.

I voted labour for years and admired Blaire until the Iraq debarcle but this opposition front bench is dreadful as is of course the present Tory front bench

If labour get a sensible leader and they have many many good back benchers they would immediately get my vote

Framilode Tue 21-May-19 11:35:54

Her deal may be OK if we have to leave. The problem is she has handled things so badly, alienating both leavers and remainers.

The referendum was a close result and the sensible way would have been to try and build a consensus and bring the country together. Instead she pandered to the extreme right in the Tory party and came out with nonsensical slogans such as 'Red White and Blue Brexit.

In my opinion she was also foolish to lay down red lines before the negotiations had even begun. Saying 'No deal is better than a bad deal' when she clearly didn't believe it has made people lose faith in her.

I am a remainer but I can see why leavers feel fed up. The problem is we are all probably going to have to pay the price now..

jura2 Tue 21-May-19 17:45:50

So this is where we are at today- written by a young friend:

'So May gets Labour to effectively vote against a second ref, puts the blame for no-deal firmly on them, retires with Phil and his nice money, leaves Johnson to take the car over the cliff and then turn the country into a banana republic tax haven in coalition with Farage.

Oh Jeremy Corbyn.'

Is that really what you wanted??? Was that the long game- No Deal and over the cliff. Really? I could just scream in despair- and will never ever forgive him- and I am not alone sad

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 17:59:06

They are both hopeless to be honest.

jura2 Tue 21-May-19 18:13:16

Belonged previously to a Remain internet group- all the JC supporters said 'trust him, he knows what he is doing, he is playing the long game, he won't leave it happen' - wonder what they are saying now???

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 18:14:02

jura2, just one thing wrong with your above above post and analyst @ 17:45 today, that being the Labour party are not the party of government in Britain at this crucial time.

That accolade of government is held by the Tory party as they called the referendum and then through their total incompetence brought this crisis to the door of every person who resides in Britain.

As stated, the Tory party got Britain into this mess; it is for the Tory party to get Britain out or resign from government and call a General Election.

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 18:25:37

If I was Corbyn I wouldn’t want a GE.

I think the Tories would be walloped too.

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 18:28:32

The Labour Party are the Official Opposition Party, with the majority of the front bench only been in Parliament a few years and a leader who has his questions written out for PMQ.

And a leader when asked in an interview the cost of free child care provision , said ‘ er, er, it will obviously cost a lot’
then looked on his iPad

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 18:43:18

But he leaves the maths to Dianne!

grin

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 18:47:09

grin

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 19:08:39

Anniebach, your total obsession in the hate of Jerem Corbyn has been recorded on this Forum for a considerable period of time. However, your statement that it took you fifty years of Labour party membership before you "realised you were in the wrong party" states all that needs to be said in regard to your political judgment.

That stated, I (and I am sure many other forum members) are deeply offended by your continual reference to the Aberfan Disaster (as you did once again on this thread today) to make a personal political point.

To use the deaths of those one hundred and forty-four persons with one hundred and sixteen of those being very young children as politics is " totally out of order" to put it very mildly.

I feel it is time Anniebach that you apologised for those actions to this forum.

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 19:45:26

That I stayed as a member of the Labour Party for OVER 50 years, through bad and good times, with party leaders

Gaitskill. Wilson. Callaghan. Foot. . Kinnock. Smith.
Blair. Brown.

And left the party because of Corbyn , proves my political
judgement is rather sensible

jura2 Tue 21-May-19 20:04:37

Of course if it Cameron and the Tories that got us in this utterly bl**dy mess Grandad. But the LP, with JC at the helm- could have saved the day - could have opposed positively, made the case for revoke or a Vote on the current situation, with all the facts, and with all the fraud and lies exposed.

He chose not to- because he is anti EU and has always been- and because he wants a GE at all costs- even if it destroys the country by throwing us into no Deal- destroy 1000s and 1000s more jobs and indusries, destroys the financial sector that pays a huge % of taxes to support the NHS, education, and all the other essentials. Destroys chances for our young people, destroys international research, security, medicines, and the NHS with it. And I can't believe that you will stand by. I can assure you LP, with JC at the helm, will never win a GE. He could have opposed, he didn't- because it suits his game. And he won't be forgiven. Oh yes, say it again, 'Conference' blessed Conference.

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 20:07:19

Ffs hate???

No one hates Corbyn! You can debate and disagree policies and personalities without anyone Hating

Good grief when did we get so childish.

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 20:18:54

The day after the referendum Corbyn was on tv saying

Trigger Article 50.

When challenged in the house he said ‘ Maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully ‘

Reminds one of ‘ i was there but I don’t know if I was involved ‘

Or ‘ it was anti semetic, I didn’t look closely’

Or ‘I was on the site but I didn’t read the posts ‘

Mycatisahacker Tue 21-May-19 20:20:23

Or not my wreath?

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 20:30:11

jura2, Quote [Oh yes, say it again, 'Conference' blessed Conference.]End quote.

Yes Corbyn has wholeheartedly followed the lay member conference policy on Brexit, and that's the way it should be.

Really does get to these Tory leave people when they are reminded that it was the Conservative Party that got Beitain into this mess, and no other Party has any obligation to sacrifice their policies to get the Tories out of the situation they have got themselves and Britain into.

The first priority as laid out by the grassroots party activists is "to seek a General Election.

Simple as that jura2.

Anniebach Tue 21-May-19 20:31:10

not forgetting ‘I have never met a member of the IRA’

When reminded he had sat on a platform with them ,
Dianne Abbott explained ‘ yes he was there but he didn’t speak to them’

All the posts about Rees Mogg and nanny , seems Corbyn has one too 😀

jura2 Tue 21-May-19 20:36:11

Grandad - if only it was simple.

At the time of Conference, a lot of facts were not known- the situation was very different.

The cost to the country will be massive, and the Tories will be responsible- but JC could have positively opposed and saved us from No Deal. Country before Party- instead of helping destroying the first, and destroying the second.

And no- it is NOT simple, at all, as well you know.

Callistemon Tue 21-May-19 20:44:21

The first priority as laid out by the grassroots party activists is "to seek a General Election.
so following their own interests, then!

jura2 Tue 21-May-19 20:56:02

From The European:

A clear and unambiguous pro-Remain position from Labour would give the party a resounding 27% lead over the Conservatives, an 8% lead over the Brexit Party and a 14% increase in their overall vote, new research has revealed.

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 21:51:26

jura2, this whole Brexit fiasco was an attempt by David Cameron to end a long-running row in the Tory party in regard to Britain's membership of the European Union.

In that, it was the Tory party that decided to hold the referendum and prominent Conservative Party MPs headed most of the leave campaign. They gave to the British Electorate false information regarding the downside effects that the UK leaving the European Union could have on the British economy.

During that campaign and since they have labelled anything stated on those downside effects as "Project Fear." However even today we are hearing of up to twenty-four thousand jobs are under severe threat at British Steel because of this Tory Government mishandling of Brexit and I have no doubt that leave supporters will again label that as " Project Fear."

So it is this shambles of a Government that got Britain into this mess, continues to keep Britain in this mess with absolutely no idea among its numerous fighting factions how to resolve the situation.

Therefore the sooner this so-called government are gone from office, and a General Election called the better it will be for everyone who resides in this country.

In that, the Labour Party lay activists conference policy of pursuing a General Election as priority has proven to be the correct one as time has demonstrated.

That policy I very much support and the Parliamentary Labour Party should give no further assistance to this Shambles of an administration.

trisher Tue 21-May-19 22:06:51

HOw anyone can support this government I don't know. Any other country would be out on the streets demanding a GE instead we have pathetic posts on GN about irrelevancies. So this inadequate Tory shambles leads us head long into a no-deal Brexit and Rees Mogg and his cronies are sitting counting the cash they will make.

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 22:16:39

Callistemon Quote [The first priority as laid out by the grassroots party activists is "to seek a General Election.
so following their own interests, then!] End Quote.

Callistemon, many of those grassroots activists attending the last Labour Movement Conference were from various trade unions. In that, many are subject to Gig Economy conditions of work, or zero hours contracts, or live in private rented housing and are subject to eviction on a few weeks notice, or perhaps are subject to all the above.

As they see it no doubt, it makes little difference to them if Britain is in or out of the European Union as life has changed little for them in near two decades.

What those delegates wish to see is a government that speaks and acts for them, hence the call for a General Election as first priority. Therefore, if it is seen as those grassroots delegates pursuing that policy for their own interests, so be it I feel, and I hope they succeed in that.

That may be tough for some at present, but many of those delegates and their families have had it very tough for a long time.

varian Wed 22-May-19 15:57:07

Labour panics as remain voters switch to Liberal Democrats. Polls make Vince Cable’s party the favourite for remainers and put it in first place in London

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/18/labour-panic-remain-voters-switch-to-lib-dems

It may not just be the Tories who end up being embarrassed by the result of our EU elections.

varian Wed 22-May-19 16:01:40

Former Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay announced he would be voting for the Lib Dems because of the inability of the Labour Party to prevent a damaging Brexit.

www.libdemvoice.org/watch-lib-dem-stop-brexit-rally-with-tim-former-labour-mp-backing-lib-dems-layla-and-vince-60877.html

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 08:23:46

But of course Grandad - of course. Cameron and the Tories are responsible for this abominable fiasco. But we are where we are now- and Corbyn has aided and abetted them all the way- when he could have made an excellent case for opposing and a second ref at an earlier stage. But he is anti EU and has always been - and he is very unlikely to win a GE.

So what then ?!?

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 08:26:04

The Tories will just blame May- and rally around Boris or another ERG- win the GE and have a mandate for No Deal and WTO. Is that what YOU want, as a true Labour and JC supporter? Will that deliver on the NHS, a fairer society, social services and education, etc. I don't think so.

Anniebach Thu 23-May-19 08:36:52

The Unions are pulling Corbyn’s strings , memories of Wilson’s and Callaghan’s time in power.

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 09:27:46

And yet it it the Unions' members which are losing their jobs and have the most to fear.

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 09:47:43

www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/corbyn-isnt-working-and-labour-is-being-picked-apart-by-its-new-enemies/?fbclid=IwAR3BNiBNuG9dk4EIJOFKQuHsIo_69rHZh54ohI80PAV0-Tkd25ioQoFJSIY

Anniebach Thu 23-May-19 09:54:10

Really Jura , how have union members more to fear than millions who don’t belong to a union. ?

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 11:01:20

In response to your post: the Unions are pulling his strings - and yes, they will all be at risk, union or not.

varian Thu 23-May-19 14:36:07

You can’t get clearer than this: John McDonnell says Labour wants Brexit

www.markpack.org.uk/158838/you-cant-get-clearer-than-this-john-mcdonnell-says-labour-wants-brexit/

If you have been a Labour Party voter, and like the majority of Labour Party voters and Labour Party members, you want to STOP BREXIT vote Liberal Democrat today.

Anniebach Thu 23-May-19 15:30:37

Jura Corbyn has said he will give back to unions the power they had in the 60’s and 70’s, remember all those strikes ?

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 15:41:38

Oh I do- housebound after a severe accident, with a husband working days and nights and unable to go up or down stairs (we lived in the attic apartment of a large Victorian house) - we had the coal strike and the change from gas systems- no heating whatsoever. We had to move to a room with a 2'6 bed, 1 chair and a sink, in a portacabin in the hospital - so I would not freeze to death.

jura2 Thu 23-May-19 15:43:43

Queen Mary's Hospital, Roehampton.

trisher Fri 24-May-19 09:58:50

If your family has benefitted from maternity leave and pay, from holiday pay, from equal pay for women, from health and safety legislation, from anything which has improved the lives of working people then you have benefitted from Union action and from strikes. So all those people who are actually condemning unions should be aware that without them you would probably be sending children to work at 14 in sweatshops for peanuts. Just stop dissing the things that have brought you the lifestyle you have enjoyed and appreciate that it is still under threat, Hence the return of zero hours contracts as union strength was eroded. The only question is having removed security of employment what else can they get rid of?

Anniebach Fri 24-May-19 10:17:57

I am not condemning unions, I am against unions running the government, controlling the government. When I vote for a party leader I want that leader to lead

trisher Fri 24-May-19 11:37:13

AS you are not condemning unions Annie could you post anything to show you support them?

jura2 Fri 24-May-19 11:42:56

So here we are, Corbyn supporting remainers. May gone, and ERG in, alt right, No Deal, WTO...

Great hey! And Corbyn could have stopped it- he could have opposed it. But he wanted a GE at all costs- and he won't get one, and even if he does, he won't win it, I am 99% sure. Worth it? I'd say not.

And yes, Cameron and the Tories started it - and they will have to bear responsibility. But Corbyn is massively to blame- as he could have made a really convincing and very stron case for with a Conf. Ref or even revoke, and people would have listened, if it had been all clearly explained, with facts and figures, and conviction. He chose NOT to- and for me, he will always carry 48% of the blame!

Mycatisahacker Fri 24-May-19 17:54:11

Corbyn has always voted consistently against the EU!!!

How can you not know this? He’s always been a brexiteer. Always.

varian Fri 24-May-19 19:20:36

He claims to have voted Remain in 2016 but how many people believe him?

Anniebach Fri 24-May-19 19:37:39

His devotees who believe every thing he says no matter how much evidence proves he lies

Grany Sun 26-May-19 08:53:36

Happy Birthday to Jeremy Corbyn today.

twitter.com/LuckyHeronSay/status/1132382477891321857?s=20

trisher Sun 26-May-19 11:02:09

Happy Birthday Jeremy!

jura2 Sun 26-May-19 22:30:28

... and this is the result - happy now?

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 09:50:46

Is there anyone here who would not agree that those abysmal results are not due to JC's sitting on the fence, totaly lack of clarity, with Starmer, Emily, Watson, etc, saying one thing, and Corbyn and his close allies saying another.

One thing is clear- a GE would be a disaster for Labour - so it is time to make a very strong case for a PV- and campaign convincingly for remain.

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 09:54:03

JC has to go, for sure.

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 10:08:58

Comment copied from a LP friend:

'Yet the Labour leader STILL fails to realise that the main opposition party should be offering an alternative to those voters who do NOT WANT BREXIT. This is particularly the case when 75% of Labour members want to Remain. To actually agitate for a general election when the party’s main support is ebbing away is sheer folly. You couldn’t make it up...'

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 10:11:36

Very many thought that the unnecessary General Election of 2017 would be a disaster for the Labour Party, that's why Theresa May called it.

However, we all now know what happened to those thoughts and prediction as it turned out to be a disaster for the Tory party.

That stated the next primary ballot in Britain will be a General Election, and I feel that the Labour Party should hold to its present "overall" policies as any General Election would have to be fought on much more than just Brexit.

Theresa May made the mistake of thinking that the Tory Party could fight a general election in 2017 on one major issue, and in that she lost her majority in Parliament.

Anyway, love to join the debate further, but we are just off for a walk on Exmoor and a slap up pub lunch.

See you much later. smile

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 10:15:13

Where was the biggest party membership yesterday

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 10:20:21

The grassroots rank and file in the Labour party/movement were polices are decided WILL NOT be changing the General Election as first priory policy in regard to Brexit any time soon for any number of reasons.

No recall delegate conference has received any support, and that is the only way that the above policy could be changed in any meaningful way.

And I very much agree with that.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 10:42:46

Corbyn is hopeless though. John would be far far better as leader

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 11:30:18

Quote of the day

‘something is wrong with our strategy ‘

Diane Abbott

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 11:35:20

Poor old Di!

Always last to get it!

Hopefully she will finally quit and hopefully take her old boyfriend with her let labour recover

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 11:38:16

Grandad - if they don't change their priority, they will be defeated big time- and then what?

Anyone unable to see when the time is right to change tack- deserves oblivion.

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 12:06:01

So no change of policy from labour ?

‘If you keep doing what your doing, you keep getting what you get ‘

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 12:59:31

From Peston:

'And what is so toxic for Labour is that most Labour members and supporters were convinced that Jeremy Corbyn had a stunning victory within his near grasp.

But in the words of the Labour MEP John Howarth, who only just kept his seat, "had Labour's 'high command' set out to lose an election they could not have gone about it in a more convincing way".

Corbyn is being denigrated by all sides of his party - with the exception of loyalists associated with the powerful Unite union - for a triangulation as confusing as any perpetrated by Blair and Brown, in his refusal to state unambiguously whether he was in favour of Brexit by parliamentary fiat or a confirmatory referendum.'

Campbell also said 'no change in policy = deserve oblivion'

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 13:06:44

Corbyn is still prattling on - we want a general election

Grany Mon 27-May-19 15:37:45

Jeremy Corbyn reacts to EU election results

m.youtube.com/watch?v=22bQURKUZPA

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 15:55:12

He’s unbelievable isnt he!

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 16:03:45

jura2 regarding your post @ 12:59 today, I would certainly not cite Preston and Cambell as being anywhere near the centre of Labour movement thinking at the present time.

For that I believe anyone only needs to look back at the Blair premiership years to see why the broader Labour membership in the country is very firmly holding to the present policies, including that on Brexit. Those often poorly paid trade union members have paid affiliation subscriptions to the Labour party for over one hundred years.

However, following years of Tory Government throughout the 1980s-90s, a Labour government was elected in 1997, and grassroots members throughout the movement expected much to change for them. That certainly did not happen in their eyes. Instead, they had the beginnings of the Gig Economy, Zero Hours contracts, the Banking Crisis and the Iraqi War to name just a few things that in the view of the grassroots members Blair and his cohorts were responsible for.

The rank and file members in the trade union side of the Labour movement also did not see any relief whatsoever during the Blair/Brown years in the draconian anti-trade union legislation brought in by the Tories. That included the naming of all who are to be involved in any industrial action to their employers fourteen working days before any action commences. That legislation apply's even after a postal ballot of members has taken place and a majority vote for the action, and that is viewed by today's trade union membership as a total betrayal by the Blair government.

The above has ended any prospect of the broader movement ever supporting a centre-left Parliamentary Labour party for the foreseeable future. What we now have in that broader movement are People who are working parents but need the support food banks being trapped in the Gig Economy or Zero hours contracts. They often live in Privately rented accommodation with no security of tenure for them or their families.

The above persons care little about Brexit it means nothing to them, for they are more concerned with where the next full day's work is to come from, or what they may receive from the food bank that week, or how long they will be allowed to remain at their current address.

At the Labour Movement delegates Conference held last September, those attending chose to go for a General Election as first priority as that they see as the only way to bring about change to the above. I believe that even at such an election if the electorate rejected current Labour policies and the persons leading the Parliamentary party, then those policies still would not change even in defeat.

Never again will the Broader Labour movement in the country support a Blair style government, for any Labour administration will have to come to power speaking for those grassroots members, or it will not come to power at all.

That is where the Labour Party/movement are at the present time and will remain for the foreseeable future, I believe.

trisher Mon 27-May-19 16:05:01

It is unbelievable that some people still support a government that has no majority in parliament, that is in the middle of a leadership contest which means we have no idea who the PM will be in a fortnight's time and which is literally doing nothing. Of course we need a general election. The interesting thing will be if a PM is appointed who takes us into a no-deal Brexit. Then when a vote of no-confidence is introduced what will moderate conservatives from Remain areas do?

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 16:06:32

You can choose all you want - Conference was a long time ago- things have changed drastically.

Refuse to change tack, in the face of recent events and results- and it will be oblivion. This is what happens to dinosaurs who refuse to face facts and change accordingly.

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 16:10:10

Just wondering, is that you Len?

Witzend Mon 27-May-19 16:14:31

I'm not sure Corbyn really wants the top job. What he likes is being awkward and opposing whatever it is - after all it's what he did on the back benches when Labour were in power. He'd have to actually DO something, put his money where his mouth is.

He still reminds me of the people I used to see outside our student union in the late 60s, trying to sell the Socialist Worker and thrusting Marxist Society leaflets at you.

I don't think he's ever grown out of the student politics stage.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:21:05

Yes but Blaire actually won ejections didn’t he.

That’s kind of the point isn’t it! Unless your aim is to stay in opposition.

Labours policy on Brexit is dither bluster and fence sitting.

Please don’t tell us jezza planned these losses and he really has a cunning plan. hmm

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:24:04

Oh totally agree Witzend but his adoring groupies just will not see it.

He’s killing labour.

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 16:24:22

jura2 Quote [You can choose all you want - Conference was a long time ago- things have changed drastically.] End Quote.

Things have not changed at all for the people I have referred to in my post @16:03 today in fact they have become somewhat worse. In that as I stated, those persons could not give "a monkies" about Brexit it matters little to them in their everyday lives.

Others may care more about Brexit than the inequality those people face every day. Therefore they now no other option but to look to no one else but themselves.

Those that represent them now set policy in the Labour party, and stand by those policies and people they will.

No Change will come about even in any election defeat. Those days are gone.

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 16:26:23

Apologies should be " have no other option above."

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:27:58

Absolutely cannot believe anyone thinks Corbyn is doing a good job!

How on earth can anyone be that deluded.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:32:07

I wonder what labours policy would actually be in this GE they so want?

They would actually have to have a policy. What will it be

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 16:39:31

Well, some are getting the message.

Going further still in his BBC interview, Mr McDonnell said: "Of course we want a general election, but realistically after last night there aren't many Tory MPs that are going to vote for a general election. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

"So our best way of doing that, I think, is going back to the people in a referendum and I think that's what our members want.

"So we're saying quite clearly if there can be a deal, great, but it needs to go back to the people, if it's a no-deal then we've got to block it. And the way we're doing that, I think, is by going back to the people.and arguing the case against it because it would be catastrophic for our economy."

Asked if that meant he backed a referendum in all circumstances, Mr McDonnell replied: "I think it is, yeah."

I agree with you about things not changing for the most deprived, those really affected by austerity, job losses and the disparition of traditional industries - totally. But NOW is the time to explain why Brexit will NOT improve things for them, result in more pain and loss, and the very likely privatisation of the NHS, etc. It is up to Labour to make that case well and clear, explain the reasons and why WTO would be a disaster, for them- who mainly voted for Brexit as a portest vote- tragically and sadly 'Turkeys voting for Christmas'. The case will not be difficult to make, at all - it needs conviction and clarity from the top of LB, and that means JC and also the Unions.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:49:07

jura2

That’s exactly what labour should do I think you put that really well.

But they won’t be able to do it with Corbyn.

jura2 Mon 27-May-19 16:51:10

Agreed, too late now for him.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 16:54:33

Yes agree

trisher Mon 27-May-19 17:45:01

Firstly it is highly unlikely that this government will offer a referendum, by doing so they would lose even more support. It seems likely that the next PM will be a Brexiteer who unless stopped will take us into a no-deal Brexit. When this happens the only alternative will be to call for a vote of no-confidence. If moderate Tories continue to follow the party line they will not support this and we will crash out. So calling for another vote is fine but the reality is we probably won't get one as things stand. In fact the only chance of getting a second vote is to bring down this Tory government and vote in more MPs who will allow a second vote. In other words Corbyn is entirely right a GE is the only hope for a second vote. Expecting to get one without a GE is wishful thinking.

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 17:47:52

John MscDonald now supports a second referendum not a general election, whilst Corbyn is still in la la land

lemongrove Mon 27-May-19 17:49:56

I agree with your view of the situation trisher but as we all know, a week in politics is a long time.

trisher Mon 27-May-19 17:51:18

If you could explain to me how a second referendum would be implemented when the government are Brexiteers I would really appreciate it Annie. Why would the Tories offer such a thing? They would lose so much support.

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 17:55:12

Ask John McDonald trisher

trisher Mon 27-May-19 17:56:56

Thanks lemon it's not very often we agree grin
One thing I do wonder, if a vote of no-confidence was put to Parliament how would those Tory MPs from Remain areas vote?
Vote with the gov and they let down their Remain constituents. Vote against it and their party might lose power.

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 19:59:38

Anniebach Quote [ John MscDonald now supports a second referendum not a general election, whilst Corbyn is still in la la land] End Quote.

As usual way off the mark anniebach. What John McDonald stated was that we are unlikely to see a General Election come about due to the current situation in the Tory Party. Therefore, to fully support efforts to secure a second referendum should be the way forward.

That fully supports the Delegate Conference policy of "to seek to bring about a General Election as priority, and if that proves not possible, to then seek a second referendum."

Straightforward support for the current Delegate Conference policy anniebach, simple as that.

Anniebach Mon 27-May-19 20:13:36

Really? If all settled at the conference why his email this evening saying after the results today ‘this issue will have to go back to the people, weather through a general election or a public vote, if the people settled this last year why not just carry on not go back to the people again

Grandad1943 Mon 27-May-19 20:24:44

Anniebach, he again stated the current policy of bringing Brexit back to the electorate either through a General Election or a public vote, meaning a second referendum.

Could not be clearer.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 20:33:16

But what does he think? The man? He was always a Euro sceptic so is he still?

The trouble with Corbyn is you just don’t believe him.

Mycatisahacker Mon 27-May-19 20:33:51

And clearly neither do the electorate