Corbyn's long game - driving journalists crazy- and you?

Jura

"Anyone can post, you know that - and I am certainly NOT far left. This thread is very specific and not about anti-semitism."
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Many threads are specific but you yourself deviate from the OP, it happens.

Is Labour a Party of REMAIN or LEAVE.?

On one hand Corbyn has stated if there were a 2nd Refendum Labour will campaign to REMAIN.

BUT. If Labour were in power it would negotiate a DEAL and LEAVE.

The codswallop of the manta Labour wants to protect jobs, Workers Rights and the environment hence would not sign the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement was seen for the sham it has always been to get a General Election.

Theresa May offered Labour concessions after talks , knowing it was political suicide and her job, the following 10 point concessions :-

The commitments would be guaranteed in law and include:

1. A legal commitment to conclude alternative arrangements to replace the Northern Ireland backstop by December 2020, so it never needs to be used

2. A commitment that, should the backstop come into force, the Government will ensure that Great Britain's border rules stay aligned with Northern Ireland.

3. Negotiating objectives and final treaties for the UK's future relationship with the EU will have to be approved by MP's.

4. A new Workers' Rights Bill offering protections at least as favourable as those in the EU.

5. No change in the level of environmental protection when the UK leaves the EU.

6. As close to frictionless trade with the EU as is possible once the UK has left the single market but an end to free movement of people.

7. A commitment to align the UK with EU rules for goods and products to protect thousands of jobs dependent on just-in-time supply chains.

8. A commitment to allow MPs to decide on future customs arrangements with the EU.

9. A vote for MPs on whether the deal should be subject to a Referendum.

10.A legal duty to secure changes to the current political declaration agreed with Brussels to reflect the new deal.

Labour achieved what it asked for and Theresa May gave concessions but Labour were out of the stalls still relying on the tired old mantra of the workers rights, environment angle, as they are to date.

Getting a Deal has become harder without passing the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement but that does not faize Labour as they still think a General Election, their sole aim is in sight.

They could be right now Boris Johnson is Leader of the Tories but they have played a political game and 3 years of flip flop from the likes of Corbyn/Keir Starmer/ Barry Gardiner down the electorate still do not know if Labour is a party of REMAIN or LEAVE

Yes, in the OP's context. Thanks.

Can the present Labour Party and anti semetism be seperated ?

Anyone can post, you know that - and I am certainly NOT far left. This thread is very specific and not about anti-semitism.

Are centre left posters allowed to post ? Or only the far left ?

This thread is NOT about anti-semitism lemon- please.

Doesn’t anyone wonder how things would be going if the LP had been in government ( had May lost the GE)?
He would no doubt have had a similar deal to May, but Parliament would have turned it down just the same, and the present situation would be replicated.
With Parliament being so divided nothing would have been accepted by them.

Grany the point about the present LP under Corbyn’s
Leadership ( or lack of) is that the party membership have become more and more anti-semitic overall.Who to blame?
Corbyn of course, as that’s where the buck stops.

Of course it is Grandad 'Oh, this crisis is nothing to do with the Tory Party whatsoever. grin

Excuses.....Excuses......Excuses, as usual from the right wing on the forum.'

But now is the time for the LP to step up to the plate and help prevent disaster - NOW. And very large numbers, both in and out of LP, both Corbyn admirers and 'haters', agree he is not the one to lead this. Procrastinating by LP will mean No Deal, in just a few weeks time. Surely you can see this? And I am no Corbyn hater, for sure.

Corbyn must now choose, join the Alliance for reason or make way.

Excellent article by Will Hutton in Guardian, part here:

'What to do? The best of Britain must mount a united, full-fronted roar in response, protecting our values and advocating a wholly different programme to sustain our integrity and inclusiveness as a country while making common cause with the EU. Yes, our capitalism will need to be reshaped, our political system overhauled and our social contract refashioned. But first and foremost comes EU membership, foundational for the rest.

No united front is possible without the Labour party. Johnson has scorned Jeremy Corbyn as a Remainer. The Labour leader should glory in the epithet, own it and turn it to his advantage – there is now no room for dissimulation and triangulation. In a de facto civil war initiated by the Brexit right, there is no middle ground. We are in a battle for the very idea of a country and the Labour leadership has to reaffirm that it is a national party and will in the national interest reach across party lines. Johnson’s Brexit Tories, and their slavish fifth columnist press, are the new sectarian enemy.

Labour has to make the case for Remain as the base for a wider common programme that it will negotiate with the Liberal Democrats, Greens and even dissident liberal Tories. Nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales should be welcomed to sign up; the promise will be a federal Britain inside the EU. They may refuse, but many of their voters will not.'

So, has the time come for Corbyn to make place for someone new, younger and who can try and unite the Party and present a very strong opposition to No Deal?

For me, the answer is a resounding 'YES' - and I am not anti Corbyn. He is a great activist and I agree with many of his policies.

It's about time Jeremy Corbyn categorically stated the same, and McCluskey too- because it it his members who are currently suffering most, and will be the massive losers of No Deal.

Truly feel a bit better and more optimistic today- as Lisa has clearly and publicly stated that Labour wants to Deal and will try to negotiate one ... but failing that- will work tirelessly to stop No Deal with allies, and strongly push to Revoke Article 50.

So, perhaps the Long Game may turn out to avert disaster at the very last minute. Good on you Lisa.

Wonder how Kate Hoey voted ;)

I wish those labour members in the house and the lords who voted for the Libs would speak out

How do we know how other LP MPs voted anyway? Campbell was asked a direct question. Seems a strange question and he chose to answer it honestly.

Tom Watson:

'"My concern is the speed in which that happens. It's too late to consult our members and change the policy at conference. We need to do it sooner.

"And that's why we either need a special conference or a ballot of our members to change the policy.

"Because a very small number of people on our NEC decided that European manifesto and it was quite clearly an electoral catastrophe for Labour. And we can't allow that to happen again."

The EU-wide vote saw the party slump to just 14% of the vote, shedding ten MEPs and coming in behind the Brexit Party and the Liberal Democrats. The party was also wiped out in Scotland, and placed behind Plaid Cymru in Wales.

Mr Corbyn's vow to consult members on the party's Brexit policy came amid mounting criticism of Labour's European elections strategy from MPs, and just hours after Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry said candidates had been let down by the party hierarchy's refusal to explicitly support a second EU referendum.

"We should have said quite simply that any deal that comes out of this government should be put to a confirmatory referendum and that Remain should be on the ballot paper and that Labour would campaign to Remain," she said.

Diane Abbott, another key frontbench ally of Mr Corbyn, said the party needed to "listen to our members and take a clearer line on a public vote".'

I like Frank, but not Alistair, I expect A will be taken back into the fold ( if he promises never to vote for the Lib Dems
Ever again?

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Alistair and Frank now there's a combination some would have imagined impossible!!!

And Kate Hoey, who stood by Farage all along the campaign- is still there???

Alastair joins Frank Field who was forced to leave the party.

Ken Livingstone resigned after being suspended and was paid glowing tributes by Corbyn

I saw it as well varian never sure with AC when he is simply playing for effect. He is after all the master manipulator. I would imgine there were many looking for an excuse to get rid of him anyway. He must have made a lot of enemies when he was top-dog. That's the problem with behaving the way he did, it comes back to get you. It's a case of "Be Nice to people on the way up ...."

Will labour party members who were interviewed on tv and said they had voted for Brexit be expelled , some were in
Islington