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Our Crumbling Economy

(81 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 11:42:40

I have just heard about Bombardier and feel it is another step along the way to the crumbling of our economy.

The aerospace firm, Bombardier, is putting its Belfast operation up for sale as part of a reorganisation of the business.

I thought we should have a post where all these things could be tied together i.e., business, job insecurity the breakdown in local services and just the general lack of stability in our countries.

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 13:00:21

Good post.

Every public service is now on the point of collapse. We see life expectancy going into reverse and rising infant mortality rates. The homeless fill our shop doorways, whilst a country as rich as ours should be absolutely ashamed that over a million people use food banks.

Walk down any street - broken pavements, potholed roads. Half the shops are boarded up, the other half comprise charity shops, betting shops and fast food shops. We are rapidly becoming a third world country with dilapidated services and crumbling infra-structure.

Just depressing.

NHS in crisis.
Education in crisis.
Prisons in crisis.
Probation in crisis.
Councils in crisis.
Police in crisis.
Railways in crisis.
Housing in crisis.
Care services in crisis.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 13:02:39

Don't worry, Nigel will sort it all out.

JenniferEccles Thu 02-May-19 13:05:06

Or alternatively we could have a post where we mention that actually, our economy is thriving - far far more than in most other EU countries.

Oh and we could also mention how unemployment is at its lowest level for decades.

Wouldn't all that be far better than some incorrect pronouncement that 'our economy is crumbling' when it quite clearly isn't?

kittylester Thu 02-May-19 13:14:29

I agree jennifereccles. All this talking the country down makes me really angry. I dont suppose it will be done if/when Jeremy and Co are doing their best to destroy us.

jura2 Thu 02-May-19 13:16:02

Urmstrongran - yes, agreed.

And how on earth do you think Brexit or Nigel will fix that!?! It will make it all 100, 1000 times worse sad

Rachel711 Thu 02-May-19 13:18:56

Perhaps ones view of the ecconomy depends on where one lives!
Have you ever seen Grimsbys town centre- boarded up shops and seedy massage parlours etc. It is difficult to see it as booming.
I suspect the UKs imports far outstrip our exports- not exactly sustainable. Rather like an unemployed person with a credit card...

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 13:21:04

A fresh pair of eyes? A new take on policy?

The Labour/Conservative crews haven’t exactly had stellar results to date with their austerity measures.

EllanVannin Thu 02-May-19 13:25:31

This country is becoming unrecognisable against how it once was. We were once the best education system and NHS and the envy of many other countries. What the dickens has happened ??
Things have deteriorated at break-neck speed and pride is now a thing of the past. Why people would now want to live here God knows !

jura2 Thu 02-May-19 13:28:54

Businesses including financial sector have eyes - and they can see that the UK is not the place to be- how many more jobs are going to go, and % of income for the country?

Fresh eyes- how are they going to stop carers, doctors, nurses, teachers - and employees in every sector from a) leaving to better climes, be they EU or British, or other - and b) not come in the first place?

Do you think Nigel could train sufficient Brits on the dole to become Brain Surgeons in a few week, months, years ...with his 'new eyes' (must they they don't look new- he looks years beyond his age).

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 13:37:14

My first post was in the spirit of the thread.
Thanks to Lily then my reply it is morphing into another Brexit thread.

In fairness to the OP let’s try to keep on topic.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 13:37:21

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 13:00:21

Such a good summary but so depressing isn't it.

Grany Thu 02-May-19 13:44:03

Labour are not in government they have anti austerity policies and a costed manifesto Voting Labour for the;
14 million in poverty
1.5 in destitution
230,000 homeless
Waspi women
State schools
Fire service
Mental health services
Social care
Bus services
Climate change

jura2 Thu 02-May-19 13:53:57

Urmstongran- surely, honestly, you must know that it is all linked - whatever the 'spirit' of the thread.

The lack of stability is 100% linked- and the destruction of the EU, which we will have started - will add to instability all over the EU and beyond. A very dangerous situation.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 13:54:48

Wouldn't all that be far better than some incorrect pronouncement that 'our economy is crumbling' when it quite clearly isn't? JenniferEccles (Thu 02-May-19 13:05:06)

I am pleased for you if this is your lived experience, but it seems so different from the one that many people feel.

Statistics have their uses. They can give an overall picture. However, what if you are part of the growing percentage who feels life is very insecure, that things have only worse and yet the government and a small group of people say it is better. You might ask why things have only improved for that group while they have got worse for so many.

How about giving people space to say what they see and what they feel?

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 13:55:37

The thread is basically saying the UK is in a mess. Presumably those who support NF believe he will help the country.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 02-May-19 13:58:41

I think that for those of us who are living in leafy villages or decent suburbs, much of the sort of areas which have been so badly hit by this government are like a foreign country, and often difficult to imagine or believe that they exist, but they do and no amount of denial will wish them away.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 13:59:43

All this talking the country down makes me really angry. kittylester (Thu 02-May-19 13:14:29)

It may not be your experience; if not then tell us what is but why denigrate people who may have very different lives.

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 14:02:44

I agree Whitewave and that is why so many people feel disenfranchised and more than ready for a shake up of the politics in this country. You’re right of course jura in that they are linked. We just disagree on how we could improve things!

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 14:14:31

There was some research done Whitewave and Urmstongran that saw the problems as being in the towns rather than the cities. It seemed they have not benefited from globalisation. I'm not sure it can be that simple, although I can see the issues in nearby towns. It may just be different problems in different places as Rachel711 (Thu 02-May-19 13:18:56) was suggesting.

Could it be that governments are just not up to dealing with the complexity of modern life?

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 14:41:54

We can all look at the same image but see a different view. It depends on where you are standing.
My AC are all in f/t employment and have been in the same areas of employment since the age of 16 with no breaks.
9 GC are in f/t work since leaving school and 1 at college working p/t.
They live as far apart as NW, N, S, SW, SE, Wales and 1 lives/works abroad for part of the year.
Only 1 in rented accommodation and no financial help from parents.
There will always be grotty areas as there always have been in fact, there are two empty shops near where I live, one used to be Disking (computers etc) the other a restaurant but no doubt they'll be filled this year. Online shopping is the death of the High Street, not just the economy.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 14:58:48

Exorbitant business rates, on-line shopping and out of town retail parks are the demise of the High Street.

There are pockets of growth in the UK particularly in the south and south east.

The City of London has had an enormous amount of investments and new businesses, some doomsayers will attribute this to the low value of the pound.

There is a saying in and around the M25 that you can judge how well the UK economy is doing by the amount of cranes in London (i.e. new builds / renovations) and there are an abundance of cranes at the moment and numerous building sites / renovation projects from Canary Wharf all the way through to West London.

I appreciate that there are pockets of deprivation in other parts of the UK but surely that is down to local and county councils development programs?

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 15:48:43

It's good to hear about your experiences. GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 14:41:54) I remember the old meme that used to be raised about perspective. One person is standing at the top of a number that is on the ground, and one at the bottom. The one at the top sees a 9 and the one at the bottom sees a 6. Underneath you usually find something along the lines of "just because you see it differently doesn't mean they're wrong".

One of my family used this for a short while on a course he teaches. The students were soon adding to it, however. What, they asked, if you were the person standing at the bottom and you could see a 4 to the left of the number and an 8 to the right. You have more information which reinforces your opinion that the number is 6.

His answer, of course, was that this is why you need to keep an open mind and listen to any further facts available while respecting the fact that the other person may not have those facts.

What it tells me is much the same. Listen and research. Listening to what you say and the information I have seen, personally and reported, about the worsening of the life experience of others, it confirms for me that we are a divided country.

How, why and what we do about it is another question.

Callistemon Thu 02-May-19 15:57:32

And how on earth do you think Brexit or Nigel will fix that!?! It will make it all 100, 1000 times worse
I assumed that Lily65's post was a joke? Tongue-in-cheek? British irony?

I hope so, anyway shock

Callistemon Thu 02-May-19 16:02:24

Exorbitant business rates, on-line shopping and out of town retail parks are the demise of the High Street.
That was what was told to me too, by the owners of a large department store in our town when it shut down last year.

'We just can't compete with the internet and people going to the nearest shopping mall' was what they said and certainly the nearest shopping mall appeared to be thriving when I went yesterday.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 02-May-19 16:03:24

GG3 good post 15.48

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 16:13:30

Bank of England has just revised UK growth forecast......and it is upwards of all previous forecasts.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 16:18:05

Callistemon, very much so because I believe he is a rabble rouser and a racist.

Callistemon Thu 02-May-19 16:21:41

Well, I thought it was obvious Lily65 smile

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 16:52:39

Currently we have the lowest ever unemployment and this country's economy is doing better than most. I find it very hard to equate the different statements that are made on almost a daily basis.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 16:55:30

Were you alluding to JCorbyn in your last post?

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 17:00:00

Sorry JenniferEccles - I seem to have repeated what you said almost word for word - I've just got in, and quickly skimmed this thread. Naughty me.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 17:01:12

Bank warns of 'more frequent' rate increases than expected

This is from 2 hours ago GrannyGravy13 and seems to be focusing more on interest rates than anything.

"But if there is a resolution to the Brexit impasse, and inflation and growth continue to pick-up, then more increases are likely, Mr Carney said."

They are talking about increased growth if there is a resolution to Brexit. That is still very much hanging over us.

No surprise to see that they are saying "In particular, business investment has been falling."

The report also says that stockpiling has given the economy a short-term boost.

yggdrasil Thu 02-May-19 17:10:05

Rosina: Currently we have the lowest ever unemployment and this country's economy is doing better than most. I find it very hard to equate the different statements that are made on almost a daily basis.

The Conservatives and the right-wing press keep saying this. What they don't tell you is that 1 hour a week on a zero hours contract counts as full employment.
As to the economy, we are currently still just at 5th in the world, but this is predicted to fall to 9th by 2023.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 17:13:17

It also expects unemployment to continue to fall.

JenniferEccles Thu 02-May-19 17:32:25

That's ok Rosina but I fear we are in the minority with all the doom and gloom merchants on here!

I am certainly not saying that everything is perfect with this country, but then neither is ANY country perfect is it?

Having said that I expect Corbyn would say that Venezuela is perfect.

Zero hours contracts are often mentioned on threads like this. They do happen to suit some people, but obviously not all.

The answer of course is for a person to improve their skills by re-training or by getting qualifications to make themselves attractive to a future employer.

Such negativity expressed on here is so depressing.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 17:35:18

jenniferEccles. I do wonder if there are some people who are only happy when they are unhappy and their glass is half empty as opposed to half full?

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 17:37:34

yggdrail this is exactly my point - for every doom cast there is a conflicting view. Mark Carney is against Brexit - although he has now publicly stated that the prospect hasn't caused quite the immediate disaster that he feared, Mervyn King, former Governor of the Bank of England was painting such a rosy picture for our leaving that he might have been living on another planet to Carney. Who is right? I take your point entirely about the zero hours contracts - absolute hell to be caught in that trap, but who is to say that the forecast of our sliding to 9th is accurate? Where have they got those figures from if we appear to be in an upbeat economical situation now? I believe nothing - I have no faith in any politician, and simply watch events as they unfold.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 17:38:45

Would a zero hour contract suit you JE?

Perhaps in the field of Care, a gruelling and demanding role;
administering medication, personal care,lifting ,cleaning and so on and dealing with the emotional aspects of old age and death.

One week 20 hours, the next week 3 the mercy of "the office" and the sometimes confused clients.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 17:40:54

I think you'll find that doctor's surgeries will be overwhelmed by people complaining of anxiety and depression if we carry on talking about crumbling economies, climate change affecting our health and future and collating lists of everything that is purported to be in decline in the UK and elsewhere.
Many people might and probably do 8sit and mull over these things and feel that the world is not a good place to be, feel guilty that more isn't done to counteract the downward spiral yet feel unable to make a difference and, as a consequence, suffer anxiety and sink into depression.
We'd do need to balance the facts and it is partly the result of progress. Online shopping for food and everything else. The use of technology in the workplace has seen many redundancies. Plastic not cash has kept us from needing banks on the High Street and so on but different business are thriving due to all this.
If we don't import anything then those people in other countries will suffer hardship...more than you say they do now.
We give out more in benefits than at any other time in history, yet you still say people are starving and in need.
This will always be so as it always has been.
Give 5 men and 5 women from the poorer sectors of society, £5000 each, with no instructions as to how it must be used and meet them 3 months later to see how it was spent.
The results would be interesting.
A tv experiment in the recent past did something similar, where several families on benefits were given their annual entitlement in one lump sum to see how they managed it.
One person's reasonable income is not necessarily the same as another in a similar household. Everyone has different priorities.
I read and hear that we have fewer unemployed and the economy is growing (even though that might be at a slow rate)
If, as a GNer said, that newspapers and news are nonsense, are not to be believed, why are there so many links to news articles posted on these threads?
I think we're doing ok.
The B word will sort itself out without our doom-mongering and we will simply get on with fashioning our lives around another set of circumstances as we have done on many occasions in the past.
Smile...nil desperandum.

mumofmadboys Thu 02-May-19 17:43:52

Lowest unemployment rates is surely not true. So many on zero hour contracts

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 17:46:01

Jennifer Eccles I so agree. Utopia is impossible - in fact I believe it translates as 'nowhere'.
I can't be negative about this country and its prospects; we have collectively gone through and survived so much in the past hundred years or so, and if it were not one of the best places on the planet to live then why does half the world try to get into Britain, and stay here?
Being the jolly optimists that we are, we can no doubt cope with having a wrecked economy, street riots, and people fleeing the country as fast as they can if JC succeeds and attempts to turn us into his own particular Utopia. Venezuela has enjoyed all of these benefits, and continues to do so.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 17:50:35

Those in smug comfort can afford literally and figuratively to feel optimistic.

Money in the bank, honey coloured house in the Cotswolds paid for and so on.

The guy cycling about a city centre delivering pizza or delivering personal care has less to feel so chipper.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 18:50:56

"currently we have the lowest ever unemployment and this country's economy is doing better than most. I find it very hard to equate the different statements that are made on almost a daily basis." Thu 02-May-19 16:52:39)

This is sort of why I started the thread Rosina. We know that when Mr Corbyn stands up and talks about food banks, a link from rising suicides rates to Universal Credit and cuts in benefits for the disabled, homelessness, children going hungry, and on and on, that he is telling the truth. There is too much fact checking for him not to be. But then Mrs May will stand up and reel off the rise in the numbers in work, etc. and I am sure her figures are correct too. So what is this telling us?

Watching my confirmation bias, as we all should, first of all, it tells me that the government does not hear those who are struggling. Chiming out the same figures time after time does not mean you understand the problem. It is, in my opinion, cruel to those who are currently in the worst place to deal with the disrespect this repetitive mantra shows. I don't know if she feels it is someone else's problem but it always sounds very much as if she only wants to talk to her base vote. It's all about politics, not the people.

Is there any way we can stop this and make sure we really are seeing economics as a people thing not just a wealth thing?

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 19:05:20

My children worked their own way up the ladder, each in their own careers, with no financial help whatsoever from either their father or myself. Two left school with no GCSEs as they didn't sit them, going straight into the career of their choice.
Two left with a handful of results, one of whom is a Senior Inward Tax Inspector, the other has a transport company in the field of sport.
One went to a private school on a scholarship, was awarded 11 A* GCSEs and 4 at A level and is now a senior partner in a firm of solicitors.
It is possible to do well with the right encouragement and self determination.
We, as parents, left them in no doubt that they would value what they worked for much more than anything they could be gifted.
Not everyone started off in the land of milk and honey and many entrepenour have openly said that you can rise above humble beginnings.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 19:17:59

Agreed Gabriella but they must have something to propel them along......intelligence, support, a good diet.

I think it is completely wrong to massage the unemployment figures by including zero hours contracts. As for people who claim " some people like them", they have obviously never tried to earn a living that way.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 19:18:02

Are you saying that only the Labour party understands and empathises with the 'working classes' and 'the poor and disadvantaged' in society?
Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?

MaizieD Thu 02-May-19 19:20:00

The Labour/Conservative crews haven’t exactly had stellar results to date with their austerity measures.

Surprised no-one picked you up on this, Ug. The austerity measures belong to the tories alone. Nothing to do with Labour. The economy was actually recovering from the 2008 recession when the tories came in in 2010. There was absolutely no need for them to implement 'austerity' but it fulfilled two purposes. Firstly they enabled the tories to shrink the state, by swingeing cuts to public services and secondly, they enabled them to perpetuate the myth that a national economy is like a household economy. Which it isn't. Which just about any economist will tell you is a myth that is dispelled on a first year economics course.

Taking money out of the economy by cutting public spending makes absolutely no sense as public spending not only keeps money circulating in the economy, as public service employees spend their wages, but it also sustains all the private companies which supply the public services (there are no nationalised companies supplying the public sector). So it means loss of business for them with the consequent drop in profits and jobs.

Contrary to the myth, government spending is not constrained by the tax take.Nor does it have to be financed by 'borrowing'. Much of the Quantitative Easing we've had over the past decade has been the Bank of England (owned by 'the State') issuing money to the government (the state). So, unless you can swallow the ridiculous concept of the state owing itself money, there is no debt.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 19:21:30

Bruce Oldfield, couturier...a Barnardos boy. Became someone who was determined to better his situation and eventually dressed the late Princess of Wales.

Lily65 Thu 02-May-19 19:26:15

So anybody struggling just isn't making enough effort?

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 19:59:54

Are you saying that only the Labour party understands and empathises with the 'working classes' and 'the poor and disadvantaged' in society? GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 19:18:02)

I didn't say anything like that. I was describing PMQs. I am sorry if you didn't find it recognisable.

"Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?"

I think this has been a really good and reasoned thread. Where was anyone talking about who to elect? We were trying to see and discuss the challenges we currently have. If you want to make the suggestions you put as challenges above then do so - as your own suggestion.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 20:11:04

It was you , GracesGranMK3 who wrote that Mrs May seems not to understand the plight of anyone who is not her base vote.
I responded to that by asking why you (and any reader agreeing with you) don't recommend someone who has come from humble beginnings.
You don't have a monopoly on here simply by starting a thread. It's all tied in with the economy.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 20:16:16

We seem to have gone a little off topic. I am glad some people see their position in the country as comfortable, happy, content and secure. Large swaths of the country don't see it like that, however. Just telling them it is their own fault or that they are wrong and there is no problem is surely not an acceptable solution.

In terms of regional inequality, the UK is more divided than the US. The situation in the UK is extreme. It is as if a great crime has been committed on large parts of the UK population. The regions have become sacrifice zones, feeding the finance monster in London. The same crime committed on the heartlands in the US. The crime began in the 1970s and it is still happening. As inequality drives political instability, it is vitally important for all, wherever they live that something is done. As the Economist suggested nearly two years ago, “Regional inequality is proving too politically dangerous to ignore”
– The Economist, 17 December 2016.

If anything things have got worse. I wonder if we need a different sort of democracy that will really represent the whole of the country?

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 21:52:41

I haven't mentioned that the 'large swathes' of the country are wrong, it's their own fault or that there is no problem.
Of course, they have their own perspectives however, I am saying that in many cases the solutions lie in their (the communities) own hands.
Wringing one's hands and bemoaning your lot in life gets you nowhere but with a little ingenuity, perhaps a willingness to move to an area where there is more work (where possible) and dedication (learning a new skill or broadening your job choices or getting an apprenticeship which includes day release so that theory can be learned or language/mathmatical skills honed.
Two of my children moved hundreds of miles away to get jobs.
One went to Wales and one to the far North of England. Both were 16 and had never been away anywhere without us, their parents. They flourished.
I am saying that it's defeatist to give up and bemoan your fate.
You can often surprise yourself if you try.

GabriellaG54 Thu 02-May-19 21:56:57

I apologise for being upbeat and having a positive, can do attitude.
I blame my parents as I didn't ask to be this way.
It annoys the heck out of a lot of people.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 02-May-19 22:04:38

GabriellaG54. There is nothing wrong with incentivising people to get on in life I agree. Unfortunately for some the easiest path is to do nothing and bemoan ones lot in life.

Callistemon Thu 02-May-19 22:11:38

Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?
Contrary to what she might like to portray, Joanne Rowling had a very middle class upbringing in a lovely house in a leafy village. She may have hit hard times as a single mum at one point, but she had an advantaged start to life.
I don't know about the other two you mention, Gabriella.

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 22:28:47

Gabriella that is so encouraging - you can laugh, or you can cry in this life, and there are people who have achieved stupendous results when life has deal them the worst cards.

Rosina Thu 02-May-19 22:29:14


MaizieD Thu 02-May-19 22:30:24

It's like a red rag to a bull, isn't it. Mention poverty and it's suddenly all about moaners and shirkers; as if all a poor person has to do is work hard and everything will be fine. If they're poor it's their own fault.

Well, a lot of 'poor'people work very hard for negligible reward and are still poor. And there are a lot of rich people who have done nothing to 'deserve' their wealth apart from being born into a very wealthy family. Which are then the 'shirkers'?

I'm sorry, GGMK3 that your thread has degenerated in this way.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 23:42:38

"I apologise for being upbeat and having a positive, can-do attitude. I blame my parents as I didn't ask to be this way. dIt annoys the heck out of a lot of people." GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 21:56:57)

Always interesting to hear how people see themselves. I shouldn't worry about it. Personally, I don't find your posts upbeat, positive and can-do so please don't fret. That is certainly not what annoys the heck out of me where they are concerned.

GracesGranMK3 Thu 02-May-19 23:49:34

I'm sorry, GGMK3 that your thread has degenerated in this way. MaizieD (Thu 02-May-19 22:30:24)

It is a shame Maizie as there have been some really good posts. There are always some who want to talk more about themselves than discuss the point but we got a longer go at the subject than we usually do.

Eloethan Fri 03-May-19 00:32:17

Those who talk of the OP and others "talking down the country" have not addressed the list of crumbling public services that the OP provided.

Saying that "unemployment is at its lowest rate" doesn't in any way comfort me. There appears to be no definition of what "employment" means, other than working at least one hour a week. To my mind having a very insecure working arrangement which may mean working only a few hours a week is not what most people would recognise as true "employment".

In my view, the OP is absolutely right. This is supposed to be an advanced country and yet almost every day there are reports of failing services. This evening's news was about the crisis in our hospitals where job cuts and general underfunding have placed such pressures on medical and other staff that sickness levels are at an all time high.

It seems that some people who are not directly affected by austerity measures feel that there is nothing to be concerned about. But, to my mind, even those of us who are relatively secure and comfortably off will be affected if this decimation of public services continues. Unless they are super rich and can afford to find themselves a nice tax haven to emigrate to or pay for any service they need, including policing, they are still vulnerable to crime, poor physical and mental health and to the creeping degradation of amenities such as parks and other public spaces. Having said all that, it feels wrong to me to be so self-congratulatory about one's own - and one's family's - good fortune while being so dismissive of the real suffering and pressures occurring in many other people's families.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 01:59:38

I think having more people crammed into certain areas overloads the infrastructure to the detriment of housing, policing, education, transport, jobs, green spaces and hospitals/health centres.
You'll find that happens much more often in cities than suburban or rural areas and that is why more green spaces are lost to housing. Crime is more prevalent.
Many building firms are paying contractors who employ cheaper workers who often live in HMO.
It's the way it works in virtually every country. To change the status quo is akin to getting the Red Sea to part.
There is a lot of sympathy here for people who are disadvantaged.
How about posting your realistic ideas as to how we, who are more fortunate, can change their lives and the prospects of our AC and GC for the better, bearing in mind that it would have to be sustainable, affordable and acceptable to the majority.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 02:21:19

Underfunding is nonsense. The NHS is terribly wasteful and that's a well known fact as are doctors who prescribe medication that cost pennies as opposed to prescription prices.
I had a friend who for many years had a sore thumb joint for which she was prescribed a cream which arrived straight from the manufacturer. It cost £84 for a 100g tub. After at least 4 years her thumb was no better.
She and her OH had shed loads of pills in stock.
HMRC are another lumbering creaking dinosaur as are social services. We can't change them all.
It would take at least another 50 years to make any sort of dent in public services and only if those in charge had the will and the nous to do it.

crystaltipps Fri 03-May-19 05:46:04

The real problem is inequality which has increased dramatically. The have and the have nots are divided more starkly than in previous generations. Social mobility is possible, but it is harder. This is the result of successive governments’ policies to protect the better off. The whole country has been living off the coat tails of the international hub that is the City. The fact that it isn’t the worse place in the world shouldn’t make us smug or think we can just be I’m all right jack. The government are squandering billions on all sorts of failed / failing / potentially disastrous policies that we can see the whole facade crumbling before our eyes.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 03-May-19 08:39:37

The Independent is reporting that the NHS has delayed cancer treatment, in some cases I definately, because it has had to put so much money aside for the Brexit effect.

Grany Fri 03-May-19 09:26:19

Underfunding is not nonsense This Tory government are deliberately underfunding our NHS Heatlh spending was 5.4% of GDP IN 2010 and it is now 1.4%. So it will fail and changing it to an insurance based model like the USA to make profit from our Health Service The USA health care system disastrous we should have nothing to do with it.

This is a fall in spending of 74% of GDP

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 09:37:37

They should stop treating health visitors who fly here to have ops or babies and leave the country without paying.

MamaCaz Fri 03-May-19 09:39:38

Crime is rising dramatically.

I am 'lucky' in that I live out in the countryside, where violent crime is low. However, the number of burglaries and car thefts in our surrounding villages has absolutely rocketed over the last few years. I follow the local Neighbourhood Watch group on Facebook, and such incidents are happening nearly every day. Those responsible are able to operate day and night without any danger of being caught, knowing that the nearest police (apart from traffic officers with speed cameras) are miles away.

Meanwhile, our bus service has been slashed - actually, the council cut it completely, but several parishes have banded together to fund a minimal service for a limited time. No good for anyone depending in it to get to appointments etc.

Our doctors surgeries are like those in the towns, with not enough doctors and increasing difficulty in getting an appointment.

Our local roads are now in such bad condition that they make driving dangerous. Most repairs that have been done to them are so badly done that they might as well not have bothered, but I guess there isn't the money available to check that the work, done on the cheap, is up to scratch.
Roads that should be wide enough for two normal-sized vehicles to pass with ease are now effectively single track in places, with people having to drive in the centre to avoid deep potholes, which makes driving on them very dangerous.

On a more superficial level - our local rights-of-way across local fields are in danger of being lost. Over the last couple of years, farmers have failed to 'reinstate' these paths after sowing their crops, meaning that they have become impassable for many months of the year. This happens to coincide with the bankruptcy of our county council which means that no one is available to enforce the law in these matters. Not a priority, I know, but still very much a sign of the times!

Those are just some of the effects of the crumbling economy out in the countryside!

Grany Fri 03-May-19 09:46:43

Say no to NHS privatisation

Grany Fri 03-May-19 10:03:15

message GabriellaG54 Health visitors as you say, who use the NHS don't make a dent they are a drop in the ocean how it's run the NHS was set up to help people. People don't know that the NHS is being sold off under the radar behind our backs people unaware.

Lily65 Fri 03-May-19 10:04:36 me, you are totally wasting your time.

GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 10:25:58


Grany Fri 03-May-19 11:41:14


GrannyGravy13 Fri 03-May-19 13:51:32

According to City AM London has jumped to second in the global rankings as best cities to invest in. Closest European City is France at seventeenth!!!

MaizieD Fri 03-May-19 14:23:12

Investment in London is partly a result of the pound being low and overseas investors picking up bargains.

Increasing the wealth of the City of London does nothing for the rest of the country. The UK may appear over all to be very wealthy but the wealth is not being distributed across the nation. It is still concentrated in the hands of a small proportion of the population. As crystaltipps pointed out a few posts ago.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 03-May-19 14:27:33

MaizieD still better to be second then 17th.

Local and County Councils have had a shake up yesterday, perhaps if they stopped paying salaries over £100,000 they would have more money to allocate into the local communities?

Dinahmo Fri 03-May-19 14:46:57

GG54 - Bruce Oldfield has a talent - not everybody does.

Lily65 Fri 03-May-19 18:16:56

Most people do but it remains untapped. Many children never fulfill their potential.
How to teach somebody when they are dehydrated, hungry and dirty and their class mates bully them?

MawBroonsback Fri 03-May-19 18:22:40

Add comment | Report | Private message GabriellaG54 Fri 03-May-19 09:37:37
They should stop treating health visitors who fly here to have ops or babies and leave the country without paying
Do you mean “health tourists” GG? confusedconfused
I think our Health Visitors are wonderful , massively overworked, understaffed but invaluable.