Our Crumbling Economy

GabriellaG54. There is nothing wrong with incentivising people to get on in life I agree. Unfortunately for some the easiest path is to do nothing and bemoan ones lot in life.

I apologise for being upbeat and having a positive, can do attitude.
I blame my parents as I didn't ask to be this way.
It annoys the heck out of a lot of people.

I haven't mentioned that the 'large swathes' of the country are wrong, it's their own fault or that there is no problem.
Of course, they have their own perspectives however, I am saying that in many cases the solutions lie in their (the communities) own hands.
Wringing one's hands and bemoaning your lot in life gets you nowhere but with a little ingenuity, perhaps a willingness to move to an area where there is more work (where possible) and dedication (learning a new skill or broadening your job choices or getting an apprenticeship which includes day release so that theory can be learned or language/mathmatical skills honed.
Two of my children moved hundreds of miles away to get jobs.
One went to Wales and one to the far North of England. Both were 16 and had never been away anywhere without us, their parents. They flourished.
I am saying that it's defeatist to give up and bemoan your fate.
You can often surprise yourself if you try.

We seem to have gone a little off topic. I am glad some people see their position in the country as comfortable, happy, content and secure. Large swaths of the country don't see it like that, however. Just telling them it is their own fault or that they are wrong and there is no problem is surely not an acceptable solution.

In terms of regional inequality, the UK is more divided than the US. The situation in the UK is extreme. It is as if a great crime has been committed on large parts of the UK population. The regions have become sacrifice zones, feeding the finance monster in London. The same crime committed on the heartlands in the US. The crime began in the 1970s and it is still happening. As inequality drives political instability, it is vitally important for all, wherever they live that something is done. As the Economist suggested nearly two years ago, “Regional inequality is proving too politically dangerous to ignore”
– The Economist, 17 December 2016.

If anything things have got worse. I wonder if we need a different sort of democracy that will really represent the whole of the country?

It was you , GracesGranMK3 who wrote that Mrs May seems not to understand the plight of anyone who is not her base vote.
I responded to that by asking why you (and any reader agreeing with you) don't recommend someone who has come from humble beginnings.
You don't have a monopoly on here simply by starting a thread. It's all tied in with the economy.

Are you saying that only the Labour party understands and empathises with the 'working classes' and 'the poor and disadvantaged' in society? GabriellaG54 (Thu 02-May-19 19:18:02)

I didn't say anything like that. I was describing PMQs. I am sorry if you didn't find it recognisable.

"Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?"

I think this has been a really good and reasoned thread. Where was anyone talking about who to elect? We were trying to see and discuss the challenges we currently have. If you want to make the suggestions you put as challenges above then do so - as your own suggestion.

So anybody struggling just isn't making enough effort?

Lily65
Bruce Oldfield, couturier...a Barnardos boy. Became someone who was determined to better his situation and eventually dressed the late Princess of Wales.

The Labour/Conservative crews haven’t exactly had stellar results to date with their austerity measures.

Surprised no-one picked you up on this, Ug. The austerity measures belong to the tories alone. Nothing to do with Labour. The economy was actually recovering from the 2008 recession when the tories came in in 2010. There was absolutely no need for them to implement 'austerity' but it fulfilled two purposes. Firstly they enabled the tories to shrink the state, by swingeing cuts to public services and secondly, they enabled them to perpetuate the myth that a national economy is like a household economy. Which it isn't. Which just about any economist will tell you is a myth that is dispelled on a first year economics course.

Taking money out of the economy by cutting public spending makes absolutely no sense as public spending not only keeps money circulating in the economy, as public service employees spend their wages, but it also sustains all the private companies which supply the public services (there are no nationalised companies supplying the public sector). So it means loss of business for them with the consequent drop in profits and jobs.

Contrary to the myth, government spending is not constrained by the tax take.Nor does it have to be financed by 'borrowing'. Much of the Quantitative Easing we've had over the past decade has been the Bank of England (owned by 'the State') issuing money to the government (the state). So, unless you can swallow the ridiculous concept of the state owing itself money, there is no debt.

GracesGranMK3
Are you saying that only the Labour party understands and empathises with the 'working classes' and 'the poor and disadvantaged' in society?
Why not elect someone who knows all about it such as the Prince of Pimlico Plumbers Charlie Mullins or JKRowling or the B'stard of Billingsgate Roger Barton?

Agreed Gabriella but they must have something to propel them along......intelligence, support, a good diet.

I think it is completely wrong to massage the unemployment figures by including zero hours contracts. As for people who claim " some people like them", they have obviously never tried to earn a living that way.

Lily65
My children worked their own way up the ladder, each in their own careers, with no financial help whatsoever from either their father or myself. Two left school with no GCSEs as they didn't sit them, going straight into the career of their choice.
Two left with a handful of results, one of whom is a Senior Inward Tax Inspector, the other has a transport company in the field of sport.
One went to a private school on a scholarship, was awarded 11 A* GCSEs and 4 at A level and is now a senior partner in a firm of solicitors.
It is possible to do well with the right encouragement and self determination.
We, as parents, left them in no doubt that they would value what they worked for much more than anything they could be gifted.
Not everyone started off in the land of milk and honey and many entrepenour have openly said that you can rise above humble beginnings.

"currently we have the lowest ever unemployment and this country's economy is doing better than most. I find it very hard to equate the different statements that are made on almost a daily basis." Thu 02-May-19 16:52:39)

This is sort of why I started the thread Rosina. We know that when Mr Corbyn stands up and talks about food banks, a link from rising suicides rates to Universal Credit and cuts in benefits for the disabled, homelessness, children going hungry, and on and on, that he is telling the truth. There is too much fact checking for him not to be. But then Mrs May will stand up and reel off the rise in the numbers in work, etc. and I am sure her figures are correct too. So what is this telling us?

Watching my confirmation bias, as we all should, first of all, it tells me that the government does not hear those who are struggling. Chiming out the same figures time after time does not mean you understand the problem. It is, in my opinion, cruel to those who are currently in the worst place to deal with the disrespect this repetitive mantra shows. I don't know if she feels it is someone else's problem but it always sounds very much as if she only wants to talk to her base vote. It's all about politics, not the people.

Is there any way we can stop this and make sure we really are seeing economics as a people thing not just a wealth thing?

Those in smug comfort can afford literally and figuratively to feel optimistic.

Money in the bank, honey coloured house in the Cotswolds paid for and so on.

The guy cycling about a city centre delivering pizza or delivering personal care has less to feel so chipper.

Jennifer Eccles I so agree. Utopia is impossible - in fact I believe it translates as 'nowhere'.
I can't be negative about this country and its prospects; we have collectively gone through and survived so much in the past hundred years or so, and if it were not one of the best places on the planet to live then why does half the world try to get into Britain, and stay here?
Being the jolly optimists that we are, we can no doubt cope with having a wrecked economy, street riots, and people fleeing the country as fast as they can if JC succeeds and attempts to turn us into his own particular Utopia. Venezuela has enjoyed all of these benefits, and continues to do so.

Lowest unemployment rates is surely not true. So many on zero hour contracts

I think you'll find that doctor's surgeries will be overwhelmed by people complaining of anxiety and depression if we carry on talking about crumbling economies, climate change affecting our health and future and collating lists of everything that is purported to be in decline in the UK and elsewhere.
Many people might and probably do 8sit and mull over these things and feel that the world is not a good place to be, feel guilty that more isn't done to counteract the downward spiral yet feel unable to make a difference and, as a consequence, suffer anxiety and sink into depression.
We'd do need to balance the facts and it is partly the result of progress. Online shopping for food and everything else. The use of technology in the workplace has seen many redundancies. Plastic not cash has kept us from needing banks on the High Street and so on but different business are thriving due to all this.
If we don't import anything then those people in other countries will suffer hardship...more than you say they do now.
We give out more in benefits than at any other time in history, yet you still say people are starving and in need.
This will always be so as it always has been.
Give 5 men and 5 women from the poorer sectors of society, £5000 each, with no instructions as to how it must be used and meet them 3 months later to see how it was spent.
The results would be interesting.
A tv experiment in the recent past did something similar, where several families on benefits were given their annual entitlement in one lump sum to see how they managed it.
One person's reasonable income is not necessarily the same as another in a similar household. Everyone has different priorities.
I read and hear that we have fewer unemployed and the economy is growing (even though that might be at a slow rate)
If, as a GNer said, that newspapers and news are nonsense, are not to be believed, why are there so many links to news articles posted on these threads?
I think we're doing ok.
The B word will sort itself out without our doom-mongering and we will simply get on with fashioning our lives around another set of circumstances as we have done on many occasions in the past.
Smile...nil desperandum.

Would a zero hour contract suit you JE?

Perhaps in the field of Care, a gruelling and demanding role;
administering medication, personal care,lifting ,cleaning and so on and dealing with the emotional aspects of old age and death.

One week 20 hours, the next week 3 hours....at the mercy of "the office" and the sometimes confused clients.

yggdrail this is exactly my point - for every doom cast there is a conflicting view. Mark Carney is against Brexit - although he has now publicly stated that the prospect hasn't caused quite the immediate disaster that he feared, Mervyn King, former Governor of the Bank of England was painting such a rosy picture for our leaving that he might have been living on another planet to Carney. Who is right? I take your point entirely about the zero hours contracts - absolute hell to be caught in that trap, but who is to say that the forecast of our sliding to 9th is accurate? Where have they got those figures from if we appear to be in an upbeat economical situation now? I believe nothing - I have no faith in any politician, and simply watch events as they unfold.

jenniferEccles. I do wonder if there are some people who are only happy when they are unhappy and their glass is half empty as opposed to half full?

That's ok Rosina but I fear we are in the minority with all the doom and gloom merchants on here!

I am certainly not saying that everything is perfect with this country, but then neither is ANY country perfect is it?

Having said that I expect Corbyn would say that Venezuela is perfect.

Zero hours contracts are often mentioned on threads like this. They do happen to suit some people, but obviously not all.

The answer of course is for a person to improve their skills by re-training or by getting qualifications to make themselves attractive to a future employer.

Such negativity expressed on here is so depressing.

It also expects unemployment to continue to fall.

Rosina: Currently we have the lowest ever unemployment and this country's economy is doing better than most. I find it very hard to equate the different statements that are made on almost a daily basis.

The Conservatives and the right-wing press keep saying this. What they don't tell you is that 1 hour a week on a zero hours contract counts as full employment.
As to the economy, we are currently still just at 5th in the world, but this is predicted to fall to 9th by 2023.

Bank warns of 'more frequent' rate increases than expected www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48119158

This is from 2 hours ago GrannyGravy13 and seems to be focusing more on interest rates than anything.

"But if there is a resolution to the Brexit impasse, and inflation and growth continue to pick-up, then more increases are likely, Mr Carney said."

They are talking about increased growth if there is a resolution to Brexit. That is still very much hanging over us.

No surprise to see that they are saying "In particular, business investment has been falling."

The report also says that stockpiling has given the economy a short-term boost.

Sorry JenniferEccles - I seem to have repeated what you said almost word for word - I've just got in, and quickly skimmed this thread. Naughty me.