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Labour anti-semitism

(929 Posts)
Anniebach Tue 28-May-19 12:04:55

The equality and human rights commission have launched
an investigation

POGS Tue 04-Jun-19 22:05:51

GG mk 3

" I have never heard the word "Zio" trueblue22 "

We have had threads where the term/derogatory/inflamatory use of the word ' ZIO' has been discussed on GN. Indeed the likes of Shami Chakrobarti, Sadiq Khan et al have spoke of the use of the term ' ZIO' having no Place in the Labour Party.

There was an inquiry led by Labour Baroness Jan Royal into anti semitism and the Oxford University Labour Club in 2016. Alex Chalmers, the Co Chair of the Oxford University Labour Club resigned citing antisemitism and the use of the word ' ZIO' as part of the reason.

My belief is the term “Zio,” is a term brought to the fore by the Klu Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke and often deployed by white supremacists.

It has been adopted by the both the Far Right and Far Left of politics and used as a form of an antisemitic trope toward Jewish people.

Willing to be corrected if I am mistaken.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 04-Jun-19 22:10:55

Thank you POGS. It all helps our understanding. It looks like we're all learning. I think, maybe, critics and politicians are to.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 04-Jun-19 22:45:28

Iam, you keep posting about unnamed Gnetters who think this or want that. It is really unpleasant. If someone has said something you disagree with then quote them and put your own point of view, otherwise you sound rather like the ephemeral posters you complain about.

I would say the same to you Annie. Please quote where on GN these things have been said so that they can be part of the debate. Otherwise it looks very much like an attempt just to inflame the thread and no one will learn anything from that.

Iam64 Wed 05-Jun-19 07:51:08

GGMK3 you may think I'm trying to "attempt just to inflame the thread and no one will learn anything from that" if I comment without 'naming names'. That isn't my intention. If I have a particular disagreement with one poster, I'll say so but honestly, it isn't up to you to tell others how, what and why the should contribute to discussions.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 08:34:39

GracesGran I will post as I wish within the rules of GN, do
try to stop controlling threads and posters.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 08:45:29

No comments on Ruth’s speech on anti semetic abuse , pity,
from this much could be learned

trueblue22 Wed 05-Jun-19 09:02:48

annibach indeed!

lemongrove Wed 05-Jun-19 09:05:50

The trouble is Annie that where there is denial, nothing can be learned at all.
No doubt that some people do conflate anti-semitism with Zionism, but intelligent people don’t, it’s just used as a cover for explaining away the anti-semitism......and we all know that.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 09:16:32

True lemon. ‘You are a cancer of humanity ‘ needs explaining/ excusing with long posts about ZIO

GracesGranMK3 Wed 05-Jun-19 10:10:06

(Reply to Wed 05-Jun-19 07:51:08) I wasn't "telling" Iam, I was asking.

What you are doing is, in my view, underhand. It is an attempt to convince others that what you believe is true, is actually true while not being prepared to evidence what you are saying. What you are accusing people on here of is huge so I really see no reason why you should not be called out on it.

I see no one on this forum who "clearly believe the state of Israel has no right to exist.". Absolutely nothing that has been written makes me believe that is true. I see nothing wrong in asking you to back up those awful accusations.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 10:20:05

And ‘poke the pig,get all Zionist child killer scum out of Labour’

This again to Ruth, how can anyone excuse it?

trisher Wed 05-Jun-19 10:24:11

Of course anti-semitic abuse is unacceptable but nobody should dismiss the continuing battle between left and right wing Labour which is often at the root of the probem here. Has Ruth Smeeth been abused by some who may or may not be Labour party members?- undoubtedly. Has everyone she has accused been guilty of anti-semitic abuse? Well that's questionable. There is a perception among left wing Labour people that accusations of anti-semitism are being used to remove people who are vocal in the anti-Israel campaign. Consider the case of Mark Wadsworth who lost his Labour membership because he accused Ruth Smeeth of being closely linked to the Daily Telegraph, which she considered meant he believed there was a Jewish conspiracy to control the media??? Currently he is suing the Labour Party. Or Jackie Walker who made private remarks about Jews and the slave-sugar trade which were leaked, found the IHRA definition of anti-semitism difficult to work with and has always been a prominent anti-Israel campaigner. Both of these people have substantial records of anti racist work and both are black (which may or may not be a factor).
I think there is a world of difference between referring someone as a "Jewish bitch" which is of course anti-semitic, and seeking to debate a working definition of anti-semitism and drawing attention to African holocausts.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 10:32:57

Yes Mark Wandsworth who caused Ruth to flee the meeting crying and Corbyn sat and watched them warmly greeted Wandsworth. One would think his first concern would be for one of his own MP’s not a momentum activist

Jackie Walker a anti semetism trainer who was filmed at a momentum training day saying ‘ I don’t know what anti semetism is’
saying ‘ i

GracesGranMK3 Wed 05-Jun-19 10:43:43

So back to the knowledge I was actually trying to gain.

To gain knowledge research, etc., actually has to take place. It cannot just be another slogan used as another stick to beat unnamed posters. This habit is really Stasiesk. It is just used so that the author, Lemongrove in this instance, can put forward the same unsubstantiated accusations. They can then complain when no one agrees with the statements even though they have not been shown to be either valid or true. The lack of agreement with the none argument is then claimed as proof of the suggested action. This way of conducting a discussion has an underlying nastiness which has shades of the early Soviet Union.

Right. I have never, in all the forums and groups I belong to, seen an instance of antisemitism. I don't mean I haven't seen reports of such things in various news sources. Neither do I mean I don't believe it is happening. I have just never seen it for myself.

Obviously, no one would want to repeat such things but I wonder where this has been actually seen happening by Gnetters? An idea of what people have seen that backs up some of the claims by posters on here would allow us to decide if this is antisemitism and if it is coming from one particular party or is widespread.

GracesGranMK3 Wed 05-Jun-19 10:51:31

Could you give us a link to the videos or first-hand reporting of these incidents Annie?

You must understand that you have made it obvious over the years that you want to believe these things to be true. No one wants to see antisemitism in the country but you have used every lump of dirt, true or not, that you could find over those years to throw at Corbyn and here you are doing it again. So, it would be good to have the evidence. I am quite willing to believe it exists but I must take into account the evidence of my own eyes and that is that you will say anything to smear one man.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 11:00:08

Googled ?

trisher Wed 05-Jun-19 11:05:45

Ruth Smeeth did leave the meeting crying. I absolutely believe that. But that doesn't mean the accusation made by Mark Wadsworth was anti-semitic. She is an MP. We've all heard the very real noise and abuse in the house. It seems she is too sensitive for a public meeting though. As for Jackie Walker I think she has every right to question what anti-semitism really is and say she finds a definition difficult to work with. If we have reached the stage when questions cannot be asked then free speech is truly scuppered.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 11:08:02

To all, I criticise Corbyn but never lie

The wall mural which Corbynites said was not anti semetic?

trisher Wed 05-Jun-19 11:12:43

Just like a record that keeps sticking and in the end you have to. admit it's useless and either just ignore the sticking or throw it out.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 11:36:32


Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 11:50:23

Ruth being verbally attacked by a momentum activist

trisher Wed 05-Jun-19 11:56:18

Well actually she doen't seem to be crying and Mark Wadsworth was actually referring to the lack of black and Asian representation which seems to have been lost in the very vocal accusations of anti-semitism. In my opinion that is very worrying.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 12:02:31

GracesGranMK3 Wed 05-Jun-19 12:13:22

Where Corbyn is concerned you are obsessed and obsessive Annie. Slowly but surely people will believe you less and less. It will even, possibly, get to the point where we do not believe a known truth when you say it because we will wonder just how you might manipulate that truth to serve your fixation.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jun-19 12:21:54

I quote and post what Corbyn says , as in the wall mural which according to a Corbynite wasn’t anti semetic but Corbyn said it was, no lie