Brexit, Polls have turned, not just one, but all of them, but one

One of the comments in the Mail today, regarding Dr Kate Tunstall:

Sour puss faced leftie, why do they always look like that?

Nice

PippaZ

Aiming off again GrannyGravy13. No one on GN, to my recollection, has posted such support of the EU.

The wholehearted belief in a figure who promises just what the victim wants to hear while his real self is camonflaged is coming from elsewhere.

But that doesn't matter does it if you deflect - rather than disprove -the suggestion about the similarity to a scammer of romance victims? Just as these poor people would do there is no attempt to show the scammer is what he says he is. And, of course, the scammer has the machinery behind him to say and do just the right thing at the right time to enhance the need to believe in him.

My worry for this need to believe is that some people can never see the truth and offering facts has no effect whatsoever - but then we have seen that too haven't we?

If continually bashing one section of the electorate makes you feel better…

One of the comments in the Guardian today:

Johnson needs continued opposition to the EU in order to satisfy the knuckle dragging gammons who support him

Nice.

Aiming off again GrannyGravy13. No one on GN, to my recollection, has posted such support of the EU.

The wholehearted belief in a figure who promises just what the victim wants to hear while his real self is camonflaged is coming from elsewhere.

But that doesn't matter does it if you deflect - rather than disprove -the suggestion about the similarity to a scammer of romance victims? Just as these poor people would do there is no attempt to show the scammer is what he says he is. And, of course, the scammer has the machinery behind him to say and do just the right thing at the right time to enhance the need to believe in him.

My worry for this need to believe is that some people can never see the truth and offering facts has no effect whatsoever - but then we have seen that too haven't we?

I was irritated by PippaZ’s condescending remark but your reply made me giggle GG13! Thank you.
?

PippaZ

Some of the recent posts sound like the sort if thing you hear from those who are being scammed but cannot stop believing the "person" exists, is real and they have a relationship with them. They go on and on believing this fabricated being is worthy of their love and money because they want so much to be in that relationship and when, it turns out, they are being played by crooks who are out to take all the can they sometimes still cannot stop believing in the invention. They believe in spite of all and any evidence presented to them. I'm stunned, to be honest.

Totally agree PippaZ all of these posters unquestionably supporting the EU over the UK, how silly of them

Some of the recent posts sound like the sort if thing you hear from those who are being scammed but cannot stop believing the "person" exists, is real and they have a relationship with them. They go on and on believing this fabricated being is worthy of their love and money because they want so much to be in that relationship and when, it turns out, they are being played by crooks who are out to take all the can they sometimes still cannot stop believing in the invention. They believe in spite of all and any evidence presented to them. I'm stunned, to be honest.

Urmstongran

Just imagine what our settlement with EU might have looked like if we'd had Frost negotiating from the off. We can't blame the EU for taking advantage of remainers being in charge. They were hardly going to say "Hang on there, we think you are doing yourselves down, you deserve more".

Lord Frost was a diplomat not a politician before being elevated to the House of Lords, he is obviously a good negotiator but he has been given a poisoned chalice. The Brexit deal negotiated in December 2020 was the best the EU would sign, NOT what the UK wanted. We then spent the whole of 2020 trying to backpedal on the agreement, we have made no headway at all, the EU are standing by the letter of the deal.

Because no progress was made on the practicalities beforehand this January was difficult, gradually progress is being made on trade and movement, as we get used to the new rules. We now have Inland Border Posts to get paperwork cleared before getting to Dover to keep it moving. The fact that many of our exports did not comply with EU rules seems to have been unexpected, because they could not regulate them they were illegal. So far imports havn’t been affected much, they have been waved through, soon they will also be properly regulated too.

It’s been a mess, the Government obviously hadn’t got a clue of the consequences.

Just imagine what our settlement with EU might have looked like if we'd had Frost negotiating from the off. We can't blame the EU for taking advantage of remainers being in charge. They were hardly going to say "Hang on there, we think you are doing yourselves down, you deserve more".

Urms, if you haven't yet watched it, I would recommend Ken Loach's 'Sorry we missed you'
It is a damning indicement of the zero hours scenario
This stuff isn't going to stop, it's central to Conservative ideology. It's what they do, what they aspire to
You're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise

Lin52

PippaZ

GrannyGravy13

I do find it ironic that the EU is happy to ship live animals (in appalling conditions) worldwide to 3rd Countries but becomes apoplectic at sausages travelling from mainland UK to NI?

But it's not as if we didn't know the laws we had signed up to. This is just aiming off yet again.

Yes maybe, but the analogy is very good. Live animals exported in appalling conditions, pleased we are becoming the first to ban this, compared to sausages, dead, manufactured to very high conditions, transported in exactly the same way as they have been for the last 40 odd years. The EU thinks the world will fall in, or it’ll collapse if they actually alter some of its rules. Rigid and protectionist we must ban all sausage from them in retaliation, if only. . Still more decent sausages for us.

It's not great but it's not relevant either. The laws governing food were well know to this lackadaisical government and they agreed and knew fine well their agreement was a legal one. They are scoundrels wanting to breach a legal contract. They knew what they were getting in to now they are trying to cry foul using lies and their old tricks with smoke an mirrors.

Do you believe supply and demand have no government manipulation behind them Urmstongran? Just think back to Thatcher and the deliberate destruction of manufacturing in favour of "services". It's all very well training people for the leisure industries but we must have areas of excellence in the STEM subjects or we will start to fall behind other countries.

Do you really believe this government will end zero-hour contracts? I would be very surprised. And the mockery of self-employment and the outsourcing of employees leading to the abdication of any employer responsibility; I would be amazed to see Tories sort that out.

I'm sure others can add to the list but I have never seen Conservatives show any concern for these in the past so it will be interesting to see whether your wishes will come true. I notice the rise in those things you mention all happened under Tories.

PippaZ

GrannyGravy13

I do find it ironic that the EU is happy to ship live animals (in appalling conditions) worldwide to 3rd Countries but becomes apoplectic at sausages travelling from mainland UK to NI?

But it's not as if we didn't know the laws we had signed up to. This is just aiming off yet again.

Yes maybe, but the analogy is very good. Live animals exported in appalling conditions, pleased we are becoming the first to ban this, compared to sausages, dead, manufactured to very high conditions, transported in exactly the same way as they have been for the last 40 odd years. The EU thinks the world will fall in, or it’ll collapse if they actually alter some of its rules. Rigid and protectionist we must ban all sausage from them in retaliation, if only. . Still more decent sausages for us.

Pay higher wages to British staff and train students in hospitality - offer a proper standard of living to employees... it's called supply and demand economics and we've cut off the cheap supply of labour from the EU... so get competitive or go find something else to do.

Enough of the ‘zero hours’ contracts. Enough of low wages. It was okay for the EU workers they were coining it in - changing sterling into euros and sending it home.

Our own workers need a decent wage to pay our higher standard of living. It will happen. Just watch.

Wages is one thing, what about maximum hours, holidays, maternity leave, basic working conditions, etc.

Are you seeing queues for British people to work in pubs and restaurants, and picking up fruit and vegetables?

No, me neither.

Well we must read different news sources. That’s not what I’m hearing. A shortage of workers is pushing up wages. Good.

what is proposed is to cut wages, cut protection and rights. And yes, this will affect the poorer workers, in agriculture, factories, etc, and push towards more automation at the same time.

Kali2

Levelling up to the very bottom - not much of a dream.

I don’t know what you mean Kali2? How can improving the wages of our own blue collar workers not be a good thing? I’m working class, grew up in Old Trafford and know of what I speak. Perhaps you are a wealthy person and don’t understand why I voted as I did.

As I say, I have absolutely no regrets and regardless of what the polls are saying (do we even believe polls? they said Brexit would never happen!) I’d vote the same way in a heartbeat.

ah because the UK has not???

GrannyGravy13

I do find it ironic that the EU is happy to ship live animals (in appalling conditions) worldwide to 3rd Countries but becomes apoplectic at sausages travelling from mainland UK to NI?

But it's not as if we didn't know the laws we had signed up to. This is just aiming off yet again.

Levelling up to the very bottom - not much of a dream.

I meant indigenous (not itinerant).

By voting leave you actually were being nasty, intentionally or not, to people whose lives are being changed for the worse

No, seamstress.

When I voted Leave it was also to raise the wages of the blue collar workers. The EU free market of Labour had stymied wages and eroded differentials. I can remember in Salford seeing white van man pull up, pick out half a dozen ‘casual’ and probably ‘cash in hand’ Polish labourers. Not good for the economy nor good for itinerant workers here who need decent wages to pay their rents/mortgages and the higher cost of living in the UK. It definitely went on.

A friend of ours was a manager on site of a huge construction project for a University teaching hospital in Manchester city centre ten years ago (pre-retirement). Casual labour was not allowed but the true anecdotal stories I could tell you made me all the more determined to vote as I did.

I have absolutely no regrets.

It’s about levelling up for our working classes. It most definitely wasn’t a level playing field before Brexit. Far from it.

As with any referendum there will be winners and losers. I’m sorry of course for those who say they are losers. But there are and will be winners.

Covid has decimated our economy so it’s hard to see the wood for the trees right now, but get this pandemic out of the way at watch the UK prosper. Our economic forecast is excellent it has and is surpassing all expectations.

I do find it ironic that the EU is happy to ship live animals (in appalling conditions) worldwide to 3rd Countries but becomes apoplectic at sausages travelling from mainland UK to NI?