Gransnet forums

News & politics

Covid: UK start to pandemic worst public health failure ever, MPs say

(205 Posts)
MaizieD Tue 12-Oct-21 07:10:34

Just in case people are puzzled as to why Boris the Beloved is constantly being criticised.

The Select Committee report on the the government's handling of the covid pandemic out today (well, yesterday really)

I expect that's why he's gone on holiday. Hoping the flack will have died down before he gets back.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089

Gabrielle56 Wed 13-Oct-21 13:51:33

Vaccinations? Success? Nothing to do with Doris and the henchmen! Only a roaring success because they DIDN'T have their filthy little mitts in that particular pie. As usual they're trying to take credit where credits not due. Lied about the carehomes situ. Lied about ppe. Lied about fatalities.lied lied lied. Selfish overindulged liars the lot of them. And still pushing out offspring even though the worst pa on the planet! Absent, unfaithful.disgusting people

grandtanteJE65 Wed 13-Oct-21 13:41:15

The UK and Sweden believed at the start of the pandemic that herd immunity would be acquired in a reasonable period of time without too many deaths.

Why they believed this and how many deaths were an acceptable number is impossible to say.

Sweden had the added problem that there was no legal precedent for telling the Swedes that they had to close bars, stay in their homes as much as possible etc., so legally they could not implement a lockdown. Finally when the death toll rose to steeply they forced a bill through parliament so they could lock the country down.

Most other countries in Europe enforced a lockdown from the start - how severe it was and who it affected varied from country to country, but the lockdowns do seem to have saved lives.

All politicians reviewing what actually happened will say they acted on scientific advice. Probably most of them did, but there have been instances of governenments not listening to the advice they were given.

Scientists haven't always agreed about what was necessary either.

Boris Johnson will doubtless say, he did what seemed best at the time, which may be true, although nothing suggests that the man is particularly truthful.

Unfortunately, he comes across as an incompetent oaf, leaving many of us wondering how he ever got to the top of a political party.

sunnybean60 Wed 13-Oct-21 13:18:50

I went into lockdown the week before it was asked of us and just couldn't understand why our government was waiting? Cheltenham infuriated me that year too. I have family relying on me to be healthy and well. Others could take risks I couldn't glad I was able to lockdown that week early others that wanted to couldn't.

polly123 Wed 13-Oct-21 13:17:23

Modompodom

polly123

Freedom day was a huge mistake. Facemasks should still be mandatory as more people I see don't wear them while a minority do. The government should be held accountable.

The Government cannot be held accountable for people who refused to wear masks, who ordered ‘exemption cards’ online, who held big parties during lockdown, held demonstrations, and generally flouted the rules while banging on about their freedom and rights.

That is true. I am thinking of lots of people just ditching the facemask because they think the virus has suddenly disappeared because Boris says so. So you have a degree of confusion which leads to people being influenced by others. Supermarkets have some workers with and some without and I always avoid those without masks.

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 13:04:26

Modompodom

polly123

Freedom day was a huge mistake. Facemasks should still be mandatory as more people I see don't wear them while a minority do. The government should be held accountable.

The Government cannot be held accountable for people who refused to wear masks, who ordered ‘exemption cards’ online, who held big parties during lockdown, held demonstrations, and generally flouted the rules while banging on about their freedom and rights.

No, they can't, but they were a small part of the problem. Most transmission occurred in the home, in family settings, where people had been forced into work or school and brought infection home.

MayBee70 Wed 13-Oct-21 13:04:17

Modompodom

polly123

Freedom day was a huge mistake. Facemasks should still be mandatory as more people I see don't wear them while a minority do. The government should be held accountable.

The Government cannot be held accountable for people who refused to wear masks, who ordered ‘exemption cards’ online, who held big parties during lockdown, held demonstrations, and generally flouted the rules while banging on about their freedom and rights.

Methinks someone else has been gaslighted….

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 13:02:53

Bamm

I suppose what I am saying is although I do think our borders should have been closed sooner, much sooner and the discharge of elderly people from hospital to care homes a terrible mistake, full lockdown has far reaching consequences and was a big step for the government to take. We see the price we paid but what of the price yet to be fully realised ?

What about the lives saved and the unnecessary deaths?

What alternative would you like to have seen?

Full lockdown was necessary because nothing else would have succeeded before vaccines were rolled out. Lockdown is a sign of failure because other measures didn't work.

The problem with lockdown was that some of the people who should have been self-isolating weren't given the financial support to do so. Labour MP Louise Haigh highlighted the issue on Question Time in March 2020 before lockdown even started. Others have also mentioned it, but the government ignored it and "blamed" the public for non-compliance.

Modompodom Wed 13-Oct-21 12:59:11

polly123

Freedom day was a huge mistake. Facemasks should still be mandatory as more people I see don't wear them while a minority do. The government should be held accountable.

The Government cannot be held accountable for people who refused to wear masks, who ordered ‘exemption cards’ online, who held big parties during lockdown, held demonstrations, and generally flouted the rules while banging on about their freedom and rights.

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 12:56:11

Most of Australia is uninhabitable. Population density in the big cities is as high as many places in the UK. There are plenty of comparisons.

Modompodom Wed 13-Oct-21 12:54:22

Whitewavemark2

nanna8

I wouldn’t want to have what we have here in Melbourne. It is depressing and awful and although we have dodged a billet to a certain extent we have paid a heavy price in mental health and economic issues. The worlds longest lockdown apparently nearly 300 days.

How many deaths per million compared to U.K.?

About 25 million people spread across a sparsely populated continent compared to over 60 million people living on a small island with a capital city with a population of 9 million. No comparison.

Bamm Wed 13-Oct-21 12:53:45

I suppose what I am saying is although I do think our borders should have been closed sooner, much sooner and the discharge of elderly people from hospital to care homes a terrible mistake, full lockdown has far reaching consequences and was a big step for the government to take. We see the price we paid but what of the price yet to be fully realised ?

polly123 Wed 13-Oct-21 12:52:34

Freedom day was a huge mistake. Facemasks should still be mandatory as more people I see don't wear them while a minority do. The government should be held accountable.

Alegrias1 Wed 13-Oct-21 12:31:41

Now we've got "so called" advisors.

Is nobody tempted to say "so called" Prime Minister?

GillT57 Wed 13-Oct-21 12:27:07

MayBee70

bear1

Why do people blame Boris for the pandemic, the whole world is effected and no goverment knew what to do it was all guess work, yes we should of gone into lockdown a lot sooner and the treatment of care homes was dreadful but dont blame Boris blame the minions in civil service and so called advisors they are the ones who tell Boris what he should be doing

Whenever I read a post like that I always thing of the Monty Python Life of Brian scene ie ‘He’s not the PM, he’s just a very naughty boy’. Bless him…..

grin. Note to Gransnet: could we have an eyeroll or a tearing one's hair out emoticon please? It would save a lot of typing.

Bamm Wed 13-Oct-21 12:26:03

I understand how you feel JaneJudge. I too have had a fair bit of trauma and I am sure this makes one a bit more susceptible......
I do think we mustn't forget the high price ( yet to fully emerge) of the lockdown on mental health. Especially those with dementia, Altzheimers or anyone needing special care and their carers. Also the physical ill health , cancer etc, not treated whilst we were overwhelmed with Covid. Some people I know have been mis diagnosed because they still haven't been seen in person by their doctor. Members of my own family caring for a person with Altzheimers through lockdown have had a really dreadful time.

MaizieD Wed 13-Oct-21 12:21:10

He has said before that the spectre of those deaths haunts him.

He also said, in private 'Let the bodies pile high in their thousands'

And the bodies are still piling up as a result of his 'Freedom Day'

Not much 'haunting' going on really, is there?

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 12:19:12

Thanks for getting back to me JaneJudge. I think your reaction is perfectly rational. I was puzzled by your comment, but I can see now that it's the result of things happening in your life, not Covid or the way it's been handled (IYSWIM).

It sounds trite to say "look after yourself", but you really must. I hope you have somebody to support you.

Mamie Wed 13-Oct-21 12:18:58

Could you help us bearl by describing what you think the job of Prime Minister should involve?
If there is no requirement to understand situations, take decisions and accept accountability then you might as well abolish the role completely.
🤔

MayBee70 Wed 13-Oct-21 12:16:33

bear1

Why do people blame Boris for the pandemic, the whole world is effected and no goverment knew what to do it was all guess work, yes we should of gone into lockdown a lot sooner and the treatment of care homes was dreadful but dont blame Boris blame the minions in civil service and so called advisors they are the ones who tell Boris what he should be doing

Whenever I read a post like that I always thing of the Monty Python Life of Brian scene ie ‘He’s not the PM, he’s just a very naughty boy’. Bless him…..

bear1 Wed 13-Oct-21 12:13:35

Why do people blame Boris for the pandemic, the whole world is effected and no goverment knew what to do it was all guess work, yes we should of gone into lockdown a lot sooner and the treatment of care homes was dreadful but dont blame Boris blame the minions in civil service and so called advisors they are the ones who tell Boris what he should be doing

crazygranny Wed 13-Oct-21 11:55:10

I cannot believe that our PM was less well informed than that idiot Trump who admitted in a recorded phone conversation that he knew the extent of the problem covid posed at an early stage. Mr. Johnson CHOSE to parade a nonchalance that nearly killed him, delaying lockdown and bringing the actual deaths of many others. He has said before that the spectre of those deaths haunts him. I hope it does.

EMMF1948 Wed 13-Oct-21 11:52:36

Kandinsky

Just for balance;

But the report highlights successes too, including the vaccination rollout

*It described the whole approach to vaccination - from the research and development through to the rollout of the jabs - as "one of the most effective initiatives in UK history*

The pandemic is probably the worst thing we've faced since the Black Death for which records are not available so it's also possible to say it was the best handling if you want to take a statistical approach. It's certainly provided a lot of political ammunition.

Alegrias1 Wed 13-Oct-21 11:50:05

so called scientists must have research knowledge on Coronavirus I am surprised they didn’t have a clue. All the government have done is be guided by the so called experts

If there's one phrase guaranteed to do my head in its "so called".

They're not "so called" scientists, they are real, actual scientists. They're not "so called" experts, they are real, actual experts.

I do feel quite justified, however in calling into doubt the posts of somebody who is "so-called" awesome

JaneJudge Wed 13-Oct-21 11:40:08

Maybe I should add at this point I have had a lot of trauma in my life and I may react differently to other people, I don't actually know.

JaneJudge Wed 13-Oct-21 11:39:04

Just at everything that has happened. Having to become a full time carer again, worrying my daughter might die, friends losing their parents (lots of them) one of my relatives died as an indirect result of covid, having to do home schooling, my Mum had some sort of breakdown as she was working on the front line, worrying about work and money and the future. I do feel in shock.