The rich and the poor

M0nica

Dinahmo In effect you are agreeing with me.

Quote - that you quoted from my previous post.
A company is like a table. It has four legs: Customers, Suppliers, Employees and Investors. Remove any of those legs and it falls over.

I am not defending billionaires and their excesses, but if they suddenly stopped doing any business whether financial or other, it would have a far greater effect on the world economy than people realise.

A fairer distribution of wealth would also have a huge effect.

Sago

Two of my closest friends are in the “premier division rich list”,
we will be their guests next weekend at one of their many homes.
They are huge philanthropists, employ thousands of people across a number of companies and are the most gentle, kind people I know.

Without their wealth,knowledge and altruism our City would be a lot worse off.

They have made a lot of poor people a lot wealthier.

Not all premier division rich are like that.

My daughter has a friend whose father is on the list and he certainly hasn't created jobs or made other people wealthy.

It doesn't justify an inequality gap which prevents people at the bottom of the pile being able to earn their own living without charity. Everybody deserves the opportunity for self respect.

Sago Exactly.

Two of my closest friends are in the “premier division rich list”,
we will be their guests next weekend at one of their many homes.
They are huge philanthropists, employ thousands of people across a number of companies and are the most gentle, kind people I know.

Without their wealth,knowledge and altruism our City would be a lot worse off.

They have made a lot of poor people a lot wealthier.

Agree Wwm2.

Better redistribution of wealth is needed. That's as much as I feel like contributing.

I’m not convinced by your argument monica although too hot and lazy to expand my argument further?

Dinahmo In effect you are agreeing with me.

Quote - that you quoted from my previous post.
A company is like a table. It has four legs: Customers, Suppliers, Employees and Investors. Remove any of those legs and it falls over.

I am not defending billionaires and their excesses, but if they suddenly stopped doing any business whether financial or other, it would have a far greater effect on the world economy than people realise.

According to that newspaper report, it was estimated (earlier in the year) that heating the pool would cost £13,000 a year. That is one heck of a lot of energy.

Meanwhile, we are being prepared for possible energy shortages over winter, and plans to close things like large railway stations, libraries and other public buildings for days at a time, should these shortages arise, are being considered.

I sincerely hope that if there are energy shortages, Sunak will have the moral decency to refrain from heating that pool. It would be crass of him, as someone who has played a large part in the devastating economic crisis that is developing, to squander energy like that, while those who can't afford to even heat their homes won't even be able to go spend the day keeping warm in the libraries!

I can already imagine the cartoons that would appear in the newspapers.
Sunak will be luxuriating in a steaming-hot pool, while hoards of wretched, shivering souls are hammering on the locked doors of a library, begging to be allowed in.
If I were any good at art, I'd draw it myself!

Wealth "trickling down " is a myth ,how many new BILLIONARES are there in the UK over the past 2 years never mind the 10 austerity years before that?
Wealth ,at that level is pocketed ,put in overseas accounts or like Ecclestons daughters rubbed in our faces while more children are being raised by using foodbanks etc ?

How many bosses of energy companies are taking huge wages AND bonuses on top while the rest of us panic about paying the hugely over inflated bills that feed their greed ?

M0nica

If billionaires removed their labour, a lot would happen, companies would not have proper finance negotiated, trade deals would not be done and all the successful businesses that exist because the billionaires set them up would not have done so. look at Richard Branson's empire, yes he is very much detached from them now, but they wouldn't exist without his skill and enterprise mny years ago when he was anything but a billionaire.

A company is like a table. It has four legs: Customers, Suppliers, Employees and Investors. Remove any of those legs and it falls over.

Branson did not operate in a vacuum. His first venture was a student magazine, co-founded with Nik Powell with who he went on to found Virgin Records. There is no doubt that he was a skilfull entrepreneur but as his businesses grew he would have required skilfull, maybe even visionary staff to help expand his business. I doubt very much whether he alone negotiated all his finance deals - he would have had a team preparing all the documentation required.

You only need to look at haute couture houses such as Yves St Laurent and Christian Dior to see how those businesses have not only after the deaths of their founders but expanded under continuing management.

Doodledog
It's a bit blinkered to get a pool at a time when people are being threatened with hosepipe bans and metered water.

Particularly when you are hoping to be made Prime Minister!

Zoejory

I imagine he had no idea we'd be heading into drought and hosepipe bans when they started the build

He won't fill his pool now, if he has any sense. But, it is an indoor pool so no one will know, unless someone at the water authority checks his usage.

If billionaires removed their labour, a lot would happen, companies would not have proper finance negotiated, trade deals would not be done and all the successful businesses that exist because the billionaires set them up would not have done so. look at Richard Branson's empire, yes he is very much detached from them now, but they wouldn't exist without his skill and enterprise mny years ago when he was anything but a billionaire.

A company is like a table. It has four legs: Customers, Suppliers, Employees and Investors. Remove any of those legs and it falls over.

It is the difference between the psychic us Brits and Americans. If the Boss drives a RR past a Brit at a bus stop the Brit complains why should he have a car when I have to go by bus. The American says I am going to have one of those A sense of Well Being and contentment are to be much cherished. When you have to surround yourself with all that money can buy are you really happy? How many of your so called friends are there with you simply to live off you by one means or another and how many will stay around if the money dries up. The problem is so many are eager to tell you how great you are that you start to believe your own propaganda. My advice to one and all is Drink from the glass half full and stop listening to the doom mongers.

The swimming pool removes Sunak's credibility with the average voter but probably not with rabid Tory activities. That said, it would take a revolution to equalise wealth across the population and even then new elites arise to cash in (as they did in the Soviet Union). But Sunak and Truss have both been in governments led by Johnson which have reduced services and failed to invest (aside from HS2!) for the public benefit and wasted money during the pandemic. Things can only get worse if Truss takes power.

Planning permission has a time limit too.

Charity, whilst good for the soul, does not work for a whole society.

That is why the welfare state was introduced. Charity existed during the first half of the last century, but did nothing to prevent poverty and poor health.

Trickle down is a myth I’m afraid.

I'm sure that it has taken time for the planning permission etc to be set up and there is no way that Sunak could have known that we were going to face a drought, so I agree with maddyone and Zoejory. But unfortunately it goes with the job - if you are going to stand on stage and tell people you know how hard their lives are and that you are going to fix it, then you have to be credible. And I suppose most people who are choosing between food and having a shower will be a bit incredulous to see a private swimming pool being built for the man who until recently was in charge of our finances.

There is no issue in principle with the members of the government being rich, that's not the issue. But they need to be aware of their privilege, and I'm not sure most of them are.

maddyone

I agree with most of your post volver. However I suspect that the planning permission and workmen were obtained ages ago, and no reasonable person would say oh dear, I can’t have the pool built now, despite planning permission and plans for building pool put in place ages ago, I might upset people because we have a hot spell.

Remember we have been asked to be mindful of how much water we use, we’re not like France where over a hundred villages are having their drinking water delivered in tankers. There are no standpipes in the streets here yet.

He may not fill it with water until the drought is over, of course.

If he and others cancelled the proposed work then the business might falter or fail and people might lose their jobs.

When I lived in a Devon village, the big house used to do just that every summer, particularly during 1976..
Now I'm curious!! ?

I'm of the Peter Mandelson philosophy, I'm relaxed about it - but as long as those who do make money through their efforts pay their taxes. Many give generously to charity too.

They are providing work for others and the wealth trickles down through society in that way.

Oh okay, I didn’t know that RP1. It’s the first one I’ve heard of. I live in the south too.

maddyone Northend in Oxfordshire is having water delivered in tankers and bottles as the local reservoir can't provide.
www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/11/village-becomes-uks-first-area-to-run-out-of-water/

I imagine he had no idea we'd be heading into drought and hosepipe bans when they started the build

Glorianny so true what you say. So many people feel powerless now.
It's a sad difficult life for many, and I can't see it improving unless those with power decide to care about others and put it into action.

It's nothing to do with jealously nanna8. It's not even really about the pool or as you say a car.

Mr Sunak might well be a very charitable person, I don't know, but he's been a part of a government which has systematically, over the last twelve years reduced the public services which are available for those who need them most. Those in charge have least need for those services (as demonstrated by the private pool complex) and have no shame or hesitation in worsening the situation for those who, despite their best efforts, have few choices.

It's wonderful to be charitable but also pay your taxes, don't try to avoid them. Use your position of power raise standards for those in need rather than to take away the things that make life safe, healthy and uplifting for everyone in society.