Gransnet forums

English Scots for YES

(954 Posts)
facebook button twitter button email this page print this page
paddyann Sun 26-Feb-17 23:15:20

this weekend saw the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan and Jeremy Coorbyn both north of the border giving us "the facts" about Nationalism .They couldn't BE more wrong ,Scottish Nationalism ,unlike English Nationalism or Britnats is INCLUSIVE we dont care where you were born if you live here you're Scottish by Coice.Here is a link to what the group English scots for YES have to say about the interference from Mr Khan and Mr Corbyn ...it might surprise you.I have found a lot of people on here are very misinformed about Scotland and our efforts towards independence ,lets see if this helps .http://www.englishscotsforyes.org/2017/02/26/on-nationalism/
On Nationalism… – English Scots for YES
Many of you will have seen the comments of London’s Mayor Sadiq Khan over the weekend to Scottish Labour’s annual conference; many of you will share the outrage felt by our members, by supporters of Scottish independence, and indeed across the Scottish political spectrum at what we feel is a complet...
englishscotsforyes.org

daphnedill Sun 26-Feb-17 23:57:52

Don't leave us, paddy! Not only would the Union Jack look horrible without the blue, the country would be a strange shape, but some of us quite like you and we don't want to be left with a load of right-wingers!

Anyway, I don't have a passport and don't want to get one just to visit my friend in Edinburgh.

Don't take any notice of Corbyn. Very few people in England do!

x

PS. If you do leave us and decide to join the EU, would you consider me for nationality?

NfkDumpling Mon 27-Feb-17 06:37:20

www.facebook.com/freenorfolk

Jane10 Mon 27-Feb-17 06:49:22

Well I'm a Scottish Scot for NO! Poor Sadiq Khan explained what he meant but SNP didn't want to hear that. Typical of them.

grannypiper Mon 27-Feb-17 07:47:18

daphne Dont worry, Scotland can never join the E.U. The have been told many many times that they would be blocked but they must need their ears syringing as they cant seem to hear that statement

whitewave Mon 27-Feb-17 07:55:57

Radio 4 this morning and someone seemed certain that Scotland would be independent soon. This wasn't an SNP bod by the way.

Anya Mon 27-Feb-17 08:20:06

It's quite possible that had the Scottish referendum taken place after the EU referendum the result might well have been a YES to independence. There was a huge swing to the SNP in the last election and even the Rugby team are fighting their corner in the Six Nations 🏉

rosesarered Mon 27-Feb-17 08:28:15

Not a Scot, and never intend living there, so can't comment much except to say that it's highly likely Khan was misunderstood on purpose, as the SNP can use their faux outrage to their own advantage ( for a while.)

Anya Mon 27-Feb-17 08:32:11

Roses I don't think Scottish outrage (can't speak for the SNP) is false in any way. It's not outrage at the result of the EU referendum that's being expressed, it goes back much further that that and much deeper.

POGS Mon 27-Feb-17 09:00:42

NfkDumpling

I'm glad I don't live in Suffolk. grin

Jane10 Mon 27-Feb-17 09:03:25

SNP thrives on faux outrage! After 10 years in govt up here things are a mess. They need to focus on their day job instead of their hell-bent drive for an independence they simply can't afford. Stirring up the uncertainty is desperately dangerous for businesses who actually drive the economy and provide employment.

durhamjen Mon 27-Feb-17 09:04:05

www.englishscotsforyes.org/2017/02/26/on-nationalism/

mcem Mon 27-Feb-17 09:20:04

Well jane faced with a choice between what you see as a mess up here and the dreadful state of NHS, housing etc etc etc
south of the border I'm glad I live here and intend to stay.
My single biggest worry right now is the fact that my daughter is in the throes of being moved onto PIP and you can't blame Holyrood for that!

durhamjen Mon 27-Feb-17 09:22:17

I'd quite like the border moving a bit further south!
Good luck to your daughter, mcem.

durhamjen Mon 27-Feb-17 09:24:46

I thought that when Scotland first voted against independence it was because many of them believed that they would stay part of the EU along with the rest of the UK. Now that is not so, they should have another referendum on the new situation.
That's fair.

trisher Mon 27-Feb-17 09:26:21

Me too dj I think we've had this discussion before. If it's Hadrian's wall I'm already in Scotland!! Mind you some Geordies wouldn't be happy at all they still bring up the Civil War and Scotland taking over Newcastle.

mcem Mon 27-Feb-17 09:27:09

Yes dj that was precisely my mindset and that of several friends and family.

durhamjen Mon 27-Feb-17 09:36:12

NFK, do you think the Duke of Norfolk will come back to reclaim his rightful inheritance if you declare independence from the UK? After all, he doesn't live there, does he?

POGS Mon 27-Feb-17 10:38:51

In the link durhamjen has just provided it states this:-

" Lest we need to spell it out agin, ad nauseum, independence is about Scotland’s self-determination.

Our opposition to Westminster is because we feel that Scotland should get the government we elect."

Scotland by way of being a Devolved Nation is in a far better place than the England. How nice it must be to have a devolved nation and be able to show National Pride in your country without being called a Little Englander for example.

Had Tony Blair and the Labour Government made reciprocal devolution arrangements for ' ALL 4 ' of the countries that make up The Union then I wonder how things might have panned out?. A Union of 'Equals' with 'Equal Status' so to speak.

Why was Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales given devolution and not England? Westminster had / has representation from all 4 nations, albeit Scotland was Labour at that time not SNP.

Yes we have have recently had English Votes For English Laws but it is just a sticking plaster over an old wound, The West Lothian Question has never been answered properly.

It is often said that Brexit is the final nail in the coffin and Scotland will become an Independent Country , the first nail in the coffin might just have been put in by Tony Blair when he gave only 3 countries devolution which has been a contentious issue since it's inception.

The probable truth is Scotland may or may not leave the Union but as long as the sun shines and as long as it remains a country in the United Kingdom it will keep trying to become Independent as having a Devolved status to make it's own laws is not enough for so many.

Personally I totally understand the argument of Independence . The question is 'At what price'?.

My question is if Independence to 'self govern' is the be all end for Scots Nat's how does that work with remaining in the European Union? A genuine question and I am not interested in making it a Brexit thread so can we keep the focus on Scotland's desire for 'self governance .

I am not trying to be hostile, flippant nor hopefully coming over as sarcastic as I do actually worry as much , if not more, about the United Kingdom breaking up as I do the UK leaving the EU.

Of course there are also many Scots who do not want Independence and to those I say I just hope that whatever the future I hope to goodness the friendship between our countries is worth more than our politics. Politics shift and turn , friendship and respect is harder earned. IMHO

Cherrytree59 Mon 27-Feb-17 11:26:45

My heart always sinks to te pit of my stomach when this subject rear ups

I am a Scot but like many others on here live in England.
I am proud of my heritage and of course support Scotland in the Rugby

But my Husband ,Children and grandchildren also many friends are English.

If you think BREXIT was divisive in families , I'm sure Scottish devolution could be even more so.

However I do believe it will happen
Probably not through the ballot box but by Westminster drip feeding more and more devolved powers to Scotland as Bribes incentives for votes.

Jane10 Mon 27-Feb-17 11:45:23

The last referendum was extremely divisive and unpleasant. It seems ridiculous to keep demanding referendums until 'they' get the result 'they' want. Whatever happened to the promises of 'once in a generation'?
If there are to be referenda then the pass level should be at least 60% as in other countries.

durhamjen Mon 27-Feb-17 11:57:27

It wasn't my link. It was from the OP. I just blued it as it didn't happen properly in the OP.

paddyann Mon 27-Feb-17 11:57:58

so much misinformation about the fight for indepdence We dont HATE ENGLISH PEOPLE for starters many perhaps most of us have english family and friends .... 84% of MP's in Westminster are ENGLISH so englnad doesn't need devolved governmnet it is already an ENGLISH parliament Independence is about us running OUR affairs and for those who insist we cant afford to the truth is we pay far more in to the pot than we get back ...we DONT have debt ,we cant borrow our budget balances every year,that debt westminsters and yes we would take "our share" BUT we'll also take our share of all UK assets .The union is not as some think of four "equals" there are only two Kingdoms in the union Scotland and England ,Ireland is a province and Wales a principality ,the act of union is a treaty between TWO countries and like any other treaty ...can be dissolved ,as we have seen with the EU .Thats the EU where there is a lot of support for our independence and talk of fasttracking us back in ...unless we can be independent BEFORE Brexit THEN WE WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY IN EUROPE just like all the other independent countries in europe ,unless you believe France,Spain,Portugal etc are't independent .Sadiq Khan tweeted his congratulations to India and Pakistan on their Independence day ....why not congratulate us on Independence too ,surely we are all allowed to govern our own countries .Finally if we are so " wee so poor and so stupid" that we cant run our own affairs why on earth is westminster determined to shackle us to them...a wee clue might be seen in old Westminster accounts....they stopped publishing them in the 1920's ...but up until then it showed that we got around a third of our revenue back the rest was at westminsters disposal.With Scotland being the ONLY part of the UK who aren't deep in the red ..indeed have a budget surplus ...and thats NOT counting oil or the exports that count as English because they go through English ports ..( whisky earns £ 135 A SECOND for the UK said Cameron,its a quarter of all UK food and drink exports) Maybe we would spend OUR money more wisely than westminster has ever spent it FOR us

NfkDumpling Mon 27-Feb-17 12:13:11

Pogs Secret negotiations are taking place as we speak for a 'Special Relationship' with Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and the flat bits of Lincolnshire. grin

paddyann Mon 27-Feb-17 12:15:46

daphnedill thanks for bluing my English Scots for Yes link ,much appreciated .Of course you'd be welcome ,there are at present around three quarters of a million English born residents here ,some who even vote tory which explians the miraculous rise ( from 26% of the vote) when they were decimate according to the pressto that magical 22% they got at the last election....see how the media can spin even a further fall of 4 % into a massive surge !!You are right many including the EU citizens who live here and are welcomed voted NO last time simply because they were lied to ,told that the ONLY way they could stay in the EU ..was vote NO .Look how well that turned out .The barnett formula is also a very misunderstood area,WE hand over all our income and get a % back ,its like giving your wages to your friend in the next street and she tells you you can have up to 40% in return ans SHE'LL decide what to do wiwth the rest ...would YOU do that?We are a different country ,one that didn't want the union...there were riots on our streets when we were sold down the river ,or over the border in this case,the call for independence is not new ,its centuries old and it will happen .Sadly there are people here whose allegiance is to a crown thats not ours ( they're german) and a union that has never really worked ..we are supposed to be EQUAL in it ! Did you know we even have to get permission to fly our own flag? The saltire is the OLDEST FLAG in the world ,its been ous since 832ad and we have to ask WM if it can hang from our building in our country.No ,you're right this isn't about Brexit ,this is about US ,its not the SNP who are pushing for another referendum its the people .

Add your message here

To post you need a valid nickname and password. Log in if you are a returning member, or join for free.

If you have forgotten your nickname or your password, you can get a reminder.