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The Poverty of Brexit

(1000 Posts)
whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 08:52:13

Poverty of ideas
Poverty of economy

It seems that NI is as useless said to stay in the Single Market according to EU draft.

Expect a major row from the headbangers and denial from Number 10

Round and around we go.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 08:56:26

I see the next generation of bright young things at Cambridge rejected Moggs world view of future Britain

No surprises there. Thinking people can logically do nothing else

yggdrasil Fri 09-Feb-18 08:59:51

Pity there aren't more thinking people :-(

mostlyharmless Fri 09-Feb-18 09:57:48


whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 10:01:05

I noticed that the Brexit broadcasting corporation failed to mention the fact that NI is almost certainly staying in the single market after Brexit.

It also failed to mention yesterday’s shambles of a meeting by the government.

The BBC is in hock to the government and the hard right.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 10:01:54

“mostly* everything crossed!,!

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 10:11:55

Reading in the Economist they are of the opinion that a second referendum is very likely. May has said that the first referendum did not give the voter sufficient information on which to base their vote.

Now that the economic case against brexit is unarguable, expect a lot more headlines like the Torygraph this week identifying “enemies of the state” and traitors.

MaizieD Fri 09-Feb-18 10:22:36

From the last thread.

gillybob said:

I would like to hear what the Labour Party would do differently ? They all seem to be keeping very quiet about it.

I think the Labour Party has been in a bit of a spot over Brexit as. although two thirds of Labour voters voted Remain an awful lot of their constituencies voted Leave. When I raised the topic with my (Remainer) Labour MP she said that very few constituents she'd spoken to were particularly concerned about Brexit. Mind you, that was not long after the GE, people's thoughts may be more concentrated on it now after the last few shambolic months.

And, I've seen it argued that they were just sitting back to let the tories get the full blame for the mess...

I do hope, though, that now that the forecasts prepared by the DEexEU have been publicised, and in view of the angry voices coming from the CBI and the TUC, and the clear message coming from the Japanese after yesterday's meeting with May, that Labour will join the anti-Brexit movement, come out loud and clear with the message that all indications show that the UK as a whole, and the deprived regions in particular, are forecast to do badly out of any Brexit scenario; to make it clear that it is the tory austerity policy since 2010 , not the EU, which has caused them so much economic distress, that re-nationalisation is possible within the EU, that the EU 'free movement' rules properly applied (which the tories never did) will address much of the concern about EU 'immigrants', that perceived 'immigrant' pressure on public services is the result of tory cuts and that remaining in the EU will stop the flight of businesses out of the UK and into the EU. Not to mention the difficulty with Northern Ireland and Remain voting Scotland (and Gibraltar?).

I know that people keep pointing to Corbyn's euroscepticism but he is on public record as supporting Remain (Hansard) and as saying that, although he doesn't support a second referendum if there were to be one he would vote Remain.

I just cannot see how any responsible party which really cared about the interests of the UK could do anything else but try to persuade the Leavers that Brexit was not a wise choice.

I'll be interested to see what comes of this Labour 'away day' on Brexit.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 10:34:03

If Labour came out formally from supporting bre it and the majority of Tories who voted remain, it must surely convince the less died in the wool Brexiters.

I cannot now see what their argument possibly is for leaving.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 11:01:57

Fingers crossed the link shows what bankers are thinking of their government.

varian Fri 09-Feb-18 11:15:13

The Liberal Democrats have never wavered in their support for remaining in the EU and have proposed that any second referendum on the "deal" and/or meaningful vote in parliament must offer the possibility of remaining.

MaizieD Fri 09-Feb-18 11:35:01

The problem for the LibDems, I think, is that they seem to be a single theme party at the moment and it's not enough to attract voters who are also very concerned about domestic policy as well as being anti-Brexit.

And their coalition record doesn't help, even though it is unjustly vilified in many instances. I had a lot of time for Vince Cable until he oversaw the appalling sell off of Royal Mail.

I also think their economic policy is too closely aligned to neoliberalism still. Neoliberalism is at the root of the UK's problems, IMO; it's time it went.

varian Fri 09-Feb-18 11:44:37

There is the world of a difference between Liberalism and neo-liberalism, which the LibDems fought against in the coalition. LibDems support a mixed economy, based on social justice.

Neoliberalism means an unregulated economic free for all where the ultra rich get richer at the expense of everyone else.

MaizieD Fri 09-Feb-18 12:30:26

I appreciate the unregulated economic freedom aspect of your argument but neo-liberalism also believes in the 'household economy' model of economics. That is a real constraint on a mixed economy.

MaizieD Fri 09-Feb-18 15:28:53

Just found this on twitter:

Westminster source says internal Government communications indicate Theresa May is due to capitulate to the hard-right Brexiteers and take the country out of the EU with no deal, securing worst case outcome as per the government’s own, conservative, impact assessments.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 16:03:49

If that is true will the British electorate simply roll over and accept it?

mostlyharmless Fri 09-Feb-18 16:04:02

That sounds very scary. No deal is unthinkable.

"Come hell and high water,
Come economic melt down
Come war on the streets of the UK

She will be the PM that delivered Brexit"

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 16:16:43

Davis didn’t bother to turn up. The U.K. hasn’t produced anything usable towards an agreement so humiliatingly the EU has done it for us. Attached -hopefully

durhamjen Fri 09-Feb-18 16:19:27

That doesn't fit in with this, though, Maizie.
Although watching Question Time last night, I was surprised at how many of the audience were in favour of Brexit, in Darlington.
They were offered a freeport down the road at TeesPort. It didn't matter that the ships from there go straight to Europe, or that most of the stuff shipped is cars from Nissan. Hitachi didn't get a mention.

NotTooOld Fri 09-Feb-18 16:20:43

Interesting thread this and great to read a political thread that puts forward ideas and promotes discussion rather than argument and a slanging match. Thank you.

durhamjen Fri 09-Feb-18 16:20:45

Can't wait for Davis's excuse, whitewave.

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 16:22:54

So we fall off the cliff, the economy goes into freefall, and the sunny uplands suddenly become a winter storm.

How on earth are all the left behinds who voted for Brexit going to react? They will be the ones to feel the icy weather first, but make no mistake it will affect everyone except the wealthy.

What is going to happen?

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 16:23:44

Too much to drink?

whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 16:24:01

Davis’s excuse that is

durhamjen Fri 09-Feb-18 16:27:43

Would he admit to that? It's an easy assumption to make, though.

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