Gransnet forums

Tae see oorsels as ithers see us

(40 Posts)
Caledonai14 Tue 12-Feb-19 09:37:55

I read this today with a growing sense of sadness.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/12/un-big-mess-how-rest-of-europe-views-brexit

These are our friends and allies, economically, culturally and in the name of peace.

It's worth a read, if only to get an idea of what we actually look like from the outside.

It's all the sadder because of the sympathy being expressed across the board for ordinary Brits like us.

As Robert Burns said: "Oh God, fa wid the giftie gie us, tae see oorsels as ithers see us?"

Fennel Tue 12-Feb-19 09:50:08

An interesting article. I wish more people would read it, not just we Grans.
Though the Guardian is very popular here, often sold out by the time I go to buy one. (Tyneside.)

paddyann Tue 12-Feb-19 10:03:08

I hear this from friends who live abroad all the time ,From Croatia and Canada and all places inbetween.They dont understand what the hell is going on! To be honest most of us dont either

jura2 Tue 12-Feb-19 10:07:10

Very sad. People just don't know what to say anymore and they make funny faces, and kind of say 'wow what a mess'- both in France and Switzerland.

I am on a remain site in France and one in UK - and the comments are just dire. From the UK one, EU citizens that have lived in the UK for years, decades or more- and absolutely loved it all. Settled, good jobs, fully bilingual - often UK spouses and kids - and day by day, they say 'sorry can't take this anymore- we are off. Either back home or to pastures new. People who are great contributors in many many ways- part of research projects, educators, nurses, doctors/surgeons, all sorts. And I get what they are saying and feeling, totally.

Grammaretto Tue 12-Feb-19 10:10:44

Interesting that some Germans see us as 2 nations, political and cultural. Very much like we once viewed them. Bach and Beethoven and then the Nazis.
Have you seen the cartoon advert in this week's Private Eye for Brex-Ray Specs? You can ignore the experts and see what you want.

Caledonai14 Tue 12-Feb-19 10:29:11

Jura, I, too, know of EU nationals who were settled here doing vital research, but have now gone home with regret all round. They didn't earn £30,000 a year, so won't get back, even if the government stops the gross self-harm.

Some of my American friends - who thought Brexit was a great idea because they believed what they were told that Britain was being ruled and suppressed by the EU - have begun to sympathise with our inability to call politicians here to account...or at least get them to stop faffing around.

The more savvy of my foreign friends, in or out of the EU, can't believe we are giving up a situation where we had exclusive opt outs in a secure union to become what looks like being a low-waged, insular, somewhat desperate economy, denying all sorts of opportunities to our young folk.

jura2 Tue 12-Feb-19 16:20:38

yes, it is the brightest who are leaving in droves - as they know they will have much better alternatives elsewhere, much better conditions and salaries (as for nurses and doctors) and continued access to international research programmes - in all research fields- which is essential for progression. Sad. But I truly can't blame them.

Wheniwasyourage Tue 12-Feb-19 18:09:41

sad sad all the time just now.

Caledonai14 Tue 12-Feb-19 18:43:36

Me too WhenIwasyourage and just a little bit annoyed that all of our real problems, like poverty and unfairness, are not being dealt with properly at Westminster.

Fennel Tue 12-Feb-19 19:57:08

Even though I've read these opinions from other EU countries, it's not the full story.
Each of these countries has very serious issues going on at home, and I should think their views on Brexit are of minor significance in comparison.

jura2 Tue 12-Feb-19 20:15:44

Yes, they do have issues too- such is the world of today. Which is why they are getting increasingly impatient- because now, a massive amount of their time, energy and more, are being spent on this ridiculous charade. Not just here.

MawBroon Tue 12-Feb-19 20:21:39

Please get it right Caledonail14 in “Tae a Louse” the final verse is

“O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!”

Urmstongran Tue 12-Feb-19 20:50:14

When I voted Leave, my Spanish friends (in 2016) were asking me how I had voted.
When I told them, unanimously I got the ‘thumbs up’.

MaizieD Tue 12-Feb-19 20:52:54

Perhaps they thought they would get Gibraltar back, Ug wink

Caledonai14 Tue 12-Feb-19 21:11:16

Maw I make no apology. Both sets of grandparents used the version I quoted as they invoked the one power they all believed in at that time. They all spoke the Doric too, hence the fa.

Thanks to you, though, for the full and accurate quote. thistle

Wheniwasyourage Tue 12-Feb-19 21:20:33

You could be right MaizieD. The unworthy thought which came into my head was that maybe Urmstongran's Spanish friends just don't like Brits.

Day6 Tue 12-Feb-19 21:54:39

Each of these countries has very serious issues going on at home, and I should think their views on Brexit are of minor significance in comparison

Spot on Fennel

I really do not care what a hack writes about the UK. Dearie me, I suspect Remainers need the reassurance of such articles. Does it matter? Italy, France, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, just for a start, have problems. I am sure we could dig up quite a few disparaging articles about most countries in the EU - sorry, 'member states' - right now.

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark the EU" to paraphrase Marcellus in Shakespeare's Hamlet, if we are using literature to make a point.

MaizieD Tue 12-Feb-19 21:59:37

Something is pretty rotten in the UK, too, Day6. It doesn't stop us having opinions on other countries' actions.

Deedaa Tue 12-Feb-19 22:19:36

All DD's foreign colleagues (from all round the world, not just the EU) think we've gone insane.

petra Tue 12-Feb-19 22:32:48

Deedaa
I don't actually give a stuff what your daughter and her foreign friends think of my country.

MissAdventure Tue 12-Feb-19 22:36:37

My sister lives in France, and she says they are quite in awe of us, and many have said leaving is the right thing.
Anyway, does it really matter?

Day6 Tue 12-Feb-19 22:38:11

But how does that impact on us? Do we really care if the French (for example) 'think we have gone insane' when we pity the people their need to protest/riot all over France in great numbers because of the disconnect between the people and the government?

It's happening all over Europe. I suspect I suspect Frexit, Spexit, Itexit, Polexit are on the cards.

Day6 Tue 12-Feb-19 22:41:28

I agree Miss Adventure - and Petra

The fact remains that we are leaving and we too have friends in France with French friends who envy us breaking away from Brussels.

Urmstongran Tue 12-Feb-19 22:56:43

Remember this?

French President Emmanuel Macron said France would have ‘probably’ voted to leave the EU if they held their own referendum. Macron spoke of the ‘risks’ in having a ‘yes or no’ referendum, saying he wouldn’t ‘want to take any bets’ if France held their own poll.

crystaltipps Wed 13-Feb-19 05:22:02

I don’t think many are envious of the political chaos in the U.K. at the moment. Another delusion.