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Johnson and a new deal

(171 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 29-Jun-20 12:38:58

If as has been hinted, by Cummings and a Johnson, that they are intending to launch a FDR type of economic new deal, I for one would be very open to the idea if the recovery and it’s policies were directed at the hardest hit, just as Roosevelt did in the 30s.

It means if they are indeed going to follow the plan it will mean a complete reversal of Tory economics since the Thatcher years.

It means that will recognise the importance of government spending as a driver to boost consumer demand.

It means that there will be government spending on large scale infrastructure to kick start a failing economy.

It means the implication of Keynesian Economic Policies - something some of us have been banging on about for years.

It means that it will concentrate on creating jobs, and those sectors hit the hardest.

I do hope that they are up to it as they don’t fill me with confidence at the moment.

I’m not sure how they will sell it to the right wing of the party, or indeed those people like we have on here who have for years rejected the notion, as “spending money we don’t have”
Although I am sure they will find a reason why suddenly Keynesian is the thing.

We will wait and watch.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 30-Jun-20 07:27:17

Well I am still waiting.

Yesterday Johnson talked about his “new deal” and announced a 5bn spend on various projects over the next unspecified years.

This represents approx. 0.5%.

Unemployment is estimated to reach as high as 30% by the end of the year. In April 2020 unemployment stood at 3.7%.

And yet Johnson has announced that benefit sanctions will be reintroduced in August, something Roosevelt would never have done, in fact quite the reverse.

So first we have Johnson trying Churchill’s coat on for size and finding it far too big to the extent he disappeared altogether, now we find him struggling to fit into Roosevelt’s shoes.

Well dear Johnson.

You have a very long way to go before you grow into those shoes.

Remember the first tranche of Roosevelt’s New Deal apart from all the various intricacies spent something like 6% of the USA’s GDP .

Johnson is only at the foothills.

He will fail, just as he’s failed in everything else he has attempted. Because he simply hasn’t the staying power, or the authority.

The U.K. will suffer as a result.

mcem Tue 30-Jun-20 07:43:18

As you say WW some of us have been "banging on" for years about the need for a Keynsian approach. I remember many GN pre-election posts dismissing such comments as LP pie-in-the-sky which would lead to the UK becoming bankrupt!
Lots of nonsensical comparisons to household budgets!

I wonder if all those reservations will now be dismissed by BJ fans.

I agree that this approach would contribute greatly to recovery but don't believe that BJ is capable of the necessary targeting and will simply fail to carry it through - largely because such an approach does not fit with Tory philosophy.

Grandad1943 Tue 30-Jun-20 08:06:32

If Johnsons "new deal" is to mean anything to the economic state of Britain in the coming five years, that spending will have to be on the scale of the 1945 Clement Atlee Labour Administration.

That huge spending was carried out throughout the period of 1945-1950. Churchill then extended the spending period well into the Tory administration period of 1950-1955.

So, the Tories have engaged in such large scale expenditure previously, but I believe that there may be uproar within the grassroots of the Tory Party if this government carries out such action.

Riverwalk Tue 30-Jun-20 08:15:45

It's noticeable that Bozzer gets to announce the good news e.g. the easing of lockdown, so he can say yes go to the beaches and shop for Britain, and now his new deal. And a hard hat and hi-viz jacket to big him up as a man of action.

But arguably the most serious and profound announcement of the last three months, the re-locking down of Leicester is left to Hancock!

Davidhs Tue 30-Jun-20 08:38:44

If unemployment really does reach anything like 30% usefull work must be found, there are plenty of schools, hospitals and other infrastructure that need putting right. Not to mention inner city’s that need regenerating, this is going to be a big change in society.

Everyone will have to accept whatever work they are offered and that it is in the national interest, this is a big change and there will be some who will resist.

Jabberwok Tue 30-Jun-20 09:14:13

Lets face it, whatever Boris does or doesn't do will be wrong for some people on here, therefore, it's not even worth discussing as anything positive will just receive a sneery comment. As for leaving Leicester to Matt Hancock, well why not? after all, he is the health minister so who else should be discussing health?

MaizieD Tue 30-Jun-20 09:14:47

You do realise, don't you, David that £5 billion will go absolutely NOWHERE. It's spitting on a forest fire to try to put it out. It's a figure to impress the -idiots- people who thought that a £9 billion annual payment to the EU was bankrupting the country. And since I've mentioned it, it's only just over half of that annual payment being split over, 5 years isn't it? What happened to £350 million per week?

It's utterly pathetic.

Iam64 Tue 30-Jun-20 09:15:22

Riverwalk - exactly, Johnson gets to present himself as Mr Nice Guy whilst Hancock gets to make the tough announcements.

Johnson seems to be trying to pre-empt Labour Party policies. I was entertained by his reference to what he said some people wrongly had referred to as Austerity, coming to an end. There is no end to his ability to stand up and mis speak.

growstuff Tue 30-Jun-20 09:19:45

If there really is to be a new deal, Johnson needs somebody to go back and do some sums.

He's promised £1 billion to rebuild schools. £1 billion sounds like a lot of money, but in the context of building, it really isn't.

Firstly, it's over 10 years, so that's £100,000,000 a year. Secondly, an average sized secondary school costs £25,000,000 - £30,000,000 to build.

That means that there'll be enough money to build just three of four secondary schools a year. Secondary school numbers are rising anyway, so extra capacity is already needed.

The Building Schools for the Future programme, which Gove cancelled nearly ten years ago, even after plans had already been finalised, was worth much more than that.

That isn't a New Deal!

Davidhs Tue 30-Jun-20 09:30:07

I’m not sure where £5bn came from but would agree that’s peanuts, £50bn might be credible, but even that’s only half the cost of HS2 so no big deal. Personally I don’t think we need any new big projects, putting what we already have in good condition is more important.

Grandad1943 Tue 30-Jun-20 09:30:45

As a person who has always supported strong left-wing social policies, I will be overjoyed if such strategies come about to alleviate the worst employment effects of the Covid-19 crisis.

If those economic strategies and spending come from a Tory administration, so be it, I will still be overjoyed.

After all, Britain never did witness such policies being brought forward during the twelve years of the Blair administration. Therefore as a true left-wing socialist, I will gratefully accept such socialist actions from whatever political source they may emerge from.

GGumteenth Tue 30-Jun-20 09:37:31

£1bn for schools that need £6bn at least, having been starved since the Conservative, Michael Gove slashed schools funding 10 years ago.

How can we trust a government run by those who believe in disruption - we will never know where we are. As for Johnson morphing from Churchill to FDR - who is he kidding. Many of the things FDR had to put in place are the very things the Conservatives have allowed to die on the vine. I heard someone say the other day that he could never be a Churchill just a poor tribute act. I fear the same will apply when it comes to our post CV economy when we will see a poor tribute act to FDR who, I feel, deserves better.

This will only work if his offer is a green one in my opinion. That will help those struggling, the country and the planet. However, and sadly, the FT reported today that Dominic Cummings was uninterested in “boring old housing insulation”, even though it would provide both jobs, warmth for those who will have difficulty affording it, and a means to hit zero carbon in 2050. I presume the Conservative strategy under him is only about saying it big in order to "stay in charge" but what is the point of that is the people don't get what they need. I think we have strong evidence that Mr Cummings is only about what Mr Cummings wants - which just appears to be Americanising our very different system of government.

My fear, where Johnson (*Conservative*) is concerned, is that the building work will fail as it has in the past and that he will allow the NHS to wither by not paying the "front line workers" what we need to pay them to ensure there are enough of them and that not enough will be done - in the right way - for those who lose their jobs.

With every likelihood that CV will be with us for some long time it is a nightmare scenario but one we know only too well he is capable of bringing about.

Janpt Tue 30-Jun-20 09:54:52

Jabberwok Well said. They know that the Labour party will never get into power again and refuse to accept that the party best able to run the country won the election by a massive majority. They should do the decent thing and give the government their support instead of all the snide comments and criticism of everything they do.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 30-Jun-20 10:00:52

janpt and jabberwok

It because I am decent and truthful and with a moral base that I can’t support this lying, deceitful, immoral and power grabbing mob..

How can anyone knowing what they are truly like support them?

growstuff Tue 30-Jun-20 10:06:30

Whitewavemark2

janpt and jabberwok

It because I am decent and truthful and with a moral base that I can’t support this lying, deceitful, immoral and power grabbing mob..

How can anyone knowing what they are truly like support them?

Because they're blind or only care about themselves?

Davidhs Tue 30-Jun-20 10:18:21

janpt and jabberwok

They won the election partly by conning gullible Brexiteers that the EU was evil and we would be better off without them. Partly because Corbyn was useless
Pigeons are going to come home to roost very quickly now Covid has made it 10 times worse and their poor decision making the UK the worst death rate of all. Even worse than the Italians who were labeled incompetent at the start of the pandemic.

GGumteenth Tue 30-Jun-20 10:21:08

Please ignore them. There are more important things to discuss and they don't discuss!

Jabberwok Tue 30-Jun-20 10:23:48

Except for Grandad, the usual negativity on here! Oh well, only to be expected! Like Grandad, I welcome the strategy and spending announcements which are long ovedue! As for being blind or only caring about myself? I am neither of these as people who know me would verify! but I am a Tory, and I do support the B J government! So If that makes me an unspeakably dreadful appalling person, so be it!!

vegansrock Tue 30-Jun-20 10:30:23

Churchill and Roosevelt? More like Henry VIII.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 30-Jun-20 10:33:19

ggumteenth the sad thing really is that there probably won’t be anything to discuss.

If a Roosevelt New Deal was offered then I would welcome it with open arms, but just like everything Johnson says it is a play to a gullible audience , when he has no intention or more like ability to carry any of it through.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 30-Jun-20 10:33:55

vegansrock 😀

GGumteenth Tue 30-Jun-20 10:34:56

No doubt those who oppose the Conservatives in anyway will be found to blame for all its failings. Now when has that ever happened before?

Whitewavemark2 Tue 30-Jun-20 10:35:06

Mind you the difference is that poor old Henry had real difficulty reproducing, Johnson’s done it so many times that he refuses to acknowledge some of them.

Jabberwok Tue 30-Jun-20 10:36:12

I'm brexiteer Davidhs and nobody conned me. I've made my views about the EU perfectly plain umpteen times. A rich boys club. run by the wealthy elite who care little about poverty and oppression and that's just for starters!! The original Common Market that I and many others voted for with such enthusiasm all those years ago has imo morphed into a dictatorial immoral monster , remember Greece?! disgusting behaviour in every respect, which this country will be well shot of both morally and economically!