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Paying for Social Care

(670 Posts)
varian Mon 06-Sep-21 18:07:13

The government appears to be contemplating a rise in NI to help pay for social care.

Some Tory MPs are against this.

We all (I think) recognise that it has to be paid for somehow.

But how?

Whitewavemark2 Mon 06-Sep-21 18:10:01

There is another thread on this subject , but I will give a quick answer.

Enshrine in law that every last penny paid in NI should be used towards what it was originally intended for i.e. cradle to grave care.

As we are in surplus every year

Job done!!

Smileless2012 Mon 06-Sep-21 18:11:47

It's going to have to be a rise in personal taxation or a rise in NI. I don't think there's any other way, unless it's split between the two.

Whatever the decision there'll be those who are against. Maybe those people could come up with an alternative.

aonk Mon 06-Sep-21 18:12:06

I would go for an increase in income tax. It would be a very small amount for the lower paid and the better off could afford it although I know there are many people between these 2 extremes who are already struggling. Younger people might not wish to contribute to the cost of social care but it can be needed by all age groups and not just older people.

varian Mon 06-Sep-21 18:19:27

Increse the rate of income tax for people earning more than four times the national average income? - about £100,00 pa?

Visgir1 Mon 06-Sep-21 18:47:14

Do via Income Tax not NI but if you work past pension age continue paying NI everyone who works should pay it.
I paid full NI since my first Saturday job until I picked up my state pension last year, over 50 years worth.

Aveline Mon 06-Sep-21 18:50:21

Tax rise rather than NI rise. Unfair to burden the younger and lower paid.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 06-Sep-21 18:58:41

I agree, raising income tax would be fairer I think. Enough of a generational divide as it is.

M0nica Mon 06-Sep-21 19:51:01

Introduce a care contribution to be paid by tax-paying people who no longer pay NI contributions and set at the level of NI contributions. Since you would need to be tax paying to pay it, poorer pensioners would not pay it.

I have never understood how anyone fortunate enough to own a house could not see the immorality of poorer people being taxed to support them in old age so that their children, in general in better jobs and better educated, should be able to pocket a larger inheritance when their parents die.

I have always said, that as much as I would like to leave my children an inheritance, if the house should need to be sold to fund my future care, so be it.

I do not understand people's obsession with leaving money to their children. Nice if you can, but if you cannot, so what?

I suspect that many of us older ones had parents who inherited nothing or very little from their parents, even if we inherited from them.

varian Mon 06-Sep-21 19:53:04

Is it surprising that a Tory government choses to demand more money from the poorer folk rather than use an income tax increase to demand payment from the rich?

Callistemon Mon 06-Sep-21 19:58:30

Aveline

Tax rise rather than NI rise. Unfair to burden the younger and lower paid.

I agree, Aveline

The retired pay no NI, perhaps we should pay a reduced rate.

Aveline Mon 06-Sep-21 20:54:45

I'd be happy to do that Callistemon

Whitewavemark2 Mon 06-Sep-21 21:02:00

Of course those who rather gullibly believed the lies will be expecting a Brexit dividend that will pay for it.

The dividend seems to have turned into a Brexit tax.

SueDonim Mon 06-Sep-21 21:06:13

Income tax would be fairer. If the numbers added up, maybe it could just start at the higher rate?

Callistemon Mon 06-Sep-21 22:11:25

Due to be announced tomorrow but the BBC news is covering nothing else so far!

Gwyneth Mon 06-Sep-21 22:27:15

Was waiting for Brexit to be mentioned didn’t take long 😂

Razzy Tue 07-Sep-21 07:32:25

Everyone will get old and need care. Taxing those who earn over £100k only - how is that fair? They already pay way more money in tax than the average person. And they currently have to pay high rates for care. Those who are poorer in retirement continue to get housing and free care.
I think everyone should pay towards the care system. NI makes sense. It is just as unfair that those who have worked and saved all their lives have to give up all of their savings whereas those who chose not to save get all their care paid.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Sep-21 07:46:51

The point is that if our NI (the clue is in the name) was an entirely dedicated insurance as it was initially supposed to be

WE ARE IN SURPLUS and there is no need to raise it further.

The government however pilfers from it to the tune of 80%! and uses it for stuff like deficit funding etc.

The tax system needs reforming .

There should be a law passed keeping the government’s sticky hands out of our savings towards our rainy days.

Mattsmum2 Tue 07-Sep-21 08:35:27

M0nica

Introduce a care contribution to be paid by tax-paying people who no longer pay NI contributions and set at the level of NI contributions. Since you would need to be tax paying to pay it, poorer pensioners would not pay it.

I have never understood how anyone fortunate enough to own a house could not see the immorality of poorer people being taxed to support them in old age so that their children, in general in better jobs and better educated, should be able to pocket a larger inheritance when their parents die.

I have always said, that as much as I would like to leave my children an inheritance, if the house should need to be sold to fund my future care, so be it.

I do not understand people's obsession with leaving money to their children. Nice if you can, but if you cannot, so what?

I suspect that many of us older ones had parents who inherited nothing or very little from their parents, even if we inherited from them.

I totally agree with you. We’re going to be recovering from this pandemic for a long time, if individuals have the ability to pay for their care then they should. I keep saying to my mum that she should realise her house may have to be sold to pay for her care, she seems intent on trying to prevent that. I’m resigned to the fact that I may not inherit anything. Im fine with that.

sodapop Tue 07-Sep-21 08:41:42

I agree with MOnica & Mattsmum there should be no expectation of inheritance if money is needed for care. People seem to think they are entitled to hold on to their assets regardless of anything else.

Cabbie21 Tue 07-Sep-21 08:57:23

I Agree that when there is only one occupant left, their house should be used to pay for their care, rather than held on to for an inheritance.
My parents were very poor, but I was “ lucky” enough to inherit half their estate, which was their house, as my mum died after just a short time in a care home. I have made sure to pass most of that to my children and grandchildren, and if my house has to be used to pay for my care, so be it. I dont think it is right for tax payers to be paying whilst others inherit. It will be good if the threshold for starting to pay is raised.
What is unfair, is that those in care who are self funding pay extra to cover the shortfall for those funded by the local authority.

Baggs Tue 07-Sep-21 09:08:18

M0nica

Introduce a care contribution to be paid by tax-paying people who no longer pay NI contributions and set at the level of NI contributions. Since you would need to be tax paying to pay it, poorer pensioners would not pay it.

I have never understood how anyone fortunate enough to own a house could not see the immorality of poorer people being taxed to support them in old age so that their children, in general in better jobs and better educated, should be able to pocket a larger inheritance when their parents die.

I have always said, that as much as I would like to leave my children an inheritance, if the house should need to be sold to fund my future care, so be it.

I do not understand people's obsession with leaving money to their children. Nice if you can, but if you cannot, so what?

I suspect that many of us older ones had parents who inherited nothing or very little from their parents, even if we inherited from them.

Yes.

Isn't this essentially what Theresa May suggested but then everyone "had kittens" and the idea was dropped?

Gillycats Tue 07-Sep-21 09:15:05

It’s high time the system was changed. Times have changed forever and the strain on the NHS and social care won’t get better. NI should apply to all working people regardless of age although perhaps at a reduced rate for pensioners currently. Long term it should apply to all. A tax rise and a VAT increase will also help. I do think big corporations and the wealthy should all stump up in particular. ‘Free’ bus passes and heating allowances should only be available to the poor regardless of age, and disabled.

Granny23 Tue 07-Sep-21 09:16:05

Here in Scotland we already have free personal care - paid from the Scottish Governments own budget*. People in general do not know how the system works, or that it only covers assistance with getting in and out of bed, dressing, toileting, medication, etc. If still living at home then the 'patient' or an unpaid relative/carer is still responsible for heating, cleaning, laundry, shopping, cooking, etc. If the 'patient' moves into a Care Home then they are personally liable for their accommodation, food, trips out, ect costs ( in my DH's case just short of £4000 per month.) With a small pension and savings running out, he was about to qualify for some help with these costs via the LA when he died. The sale of our family home could not be enforced as I was living there.

If DH's needs had been classed as medical rather than Dementia or disablement, then he would have been in a nursing home where, just like a hospital, accommodation, food, personal care etc. would all have been free. This is an on-going injustice.

* I am wondering if the proposed rise in NI contributions would apply UK wide? It has already been stated that there will be no Barnett consequentials (i.e. additional funding for the Scottish Government as a result of increased expenditure in England) as Social Care is a devolved responsibility. So will NI contributions also rise for Scottish tax payers, with all of the proceeds being spent only in England?

maddyone Tue 07-Sep-21 09:24:27

Every government, Blair’s, Cameron’s, and May’s said they would sort out the care situation. None did so. Maybe this government will do, but whatever the solution, there will be many who don’t like it. Cradle to grave care doesn’t exist if you have a house or savings. The state will take care of you if you develop cancer, but if you get dementia or heart failure, and cannot look after yourself, the state will not look after you if you have a house. The situation as it, yes, it’s unfair.