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The budget

(126 Posts)
ElderlyPerson Wed 27-Oct-21 18:00:29

I watched the budget today.

The Chancellor seemed to keep cutting taxes mostly.

Usually a Chancellor says "Now I turn to personal taxation" and I was thinking that with all these cuts and the costs of the pandemic that there would be tax increases to pay for it all, possibly quite reasonably in the circumstance of the pandemic as the money needs to be recovered from somewhere.

But no! Suddenly he commended it to The House and sat down.

Did I miss something?

MaizieD Wed 27-Oct-21 18:56:44

The pandemic money doesn't have to be 'recovered' from anywhere. It was new money put into the economy via the Bank of England. It was not 'borrowed' and it isn't owed to anyone. Though it would be jolly nice to get back the £billions that disappeared into the useless Track and Trace system (see the report published today by the Public Accounts Committee) and that went to tory friends and relations for the supply of unusable PPE. Then there's the little matter of some Test labs which were sending everyone negative results (tory mates again...)

Tax wise, the rise that will affect the poor, National Insurance was announced ages ago.

Luckygirl Wed 27-Oct-21 19:02:53

Loads of dosh to go to children's centres. But it will never be enough to mend the lives of the families who lost out when the Sure Start and LA family centres were closed. More than one generation of children who were born into disadvantaged families have missed out; and we are paying the price in addiction, crime etc.

It will take one hell of a lot of money to repair that damage. It is no good shutting these facilities then bringing them back decades later expecting everyone to pat you on the back for such a great idea. I really find it sickening.

growstuff Wed 27-Oct-21 19:05:46

Same here Luckygirl. I find it sickening too,

Conservative PR is gloating that pupil funding is returning to the levels of 2010. Remind me who's been in government since then and been responsible for the cuts.

MaizieD Wed 27-Oct-21 19:31:23

Conservative PR is gloating that pupil funding is returning to the levels of 2010.

I know that inflation hasn't exactly been rampant over the past decade, but what would '2010 levels' amount to in real terms, I wonder?

lemongrove Wed 27-Oct-21 19:37:06

A really good budget IMHO and pleased to see there will be investment for many things.It was quite a bold and optimistic one, no talk of penny pinching and austerity, which would have been a wrong approach at this time.

foxie48 Wed 27-Oct-21 19:51:06

I think it's almost impossible to work out the extent to which increased funding to publicly funded organisations eg schools and NHS will be counter balanced by increased pay awards, also what is "new" money as opposed to money already allocated. I am pleased to see the "tax" on work for those on UC being reduced but again, that's hardly a straightforward picture either. It was a "clever" budget though, listening to it, it sounded quite "labour" and clearly didn't please the right wing Tories. It was aimed at the middle ground IMHO I'll be interested to see how the LP challenges it.

Iam64 Wed 27-Oct-21 20:15:41

Well said Luckygirl. The increase in serious non accidental injuries, neglect and other forms of abuse, the increase in the numbers of children in care has been exacerbated by Tory cuts. The destruction of sure start and local authority children’s centres compounded cuts to other preventive services.
The brass neck of this government, bragging they’re spending to meet need makes me angry

PippaZ Wed 27-Oct-21 20:33:55

Of course, all we heard about today was the so-called handouts. You would think it was their money, wouldn't you?

Nothing about where the money was coming from. No reference to pensions, where they are breaking their promise and dropping the element of annual wage rises which would have seen state pensions rise by 8%. Instead, next April’s state pension rise of 3.1% will in no way make up for rising costs or the loss of its real term value over the previous decades. Nothing for the oldest and most vulnerable and less for those still working when they get to retirement. Stolen money. There seems to be a theme with the Conservatives.

And the increased tax on workers - that's going to be great isn't it - a tax which hits most those on the lowest incomes – which is clearly not all going to social care and will still not be enough to fix the crisis in the NHS.

And leaving those on UC who cannot work to cope with the increased cost of living. It seems Tories are "one nation" as long as you can work and make them rich - they don't care a jot for you if you are unable to.

And the increase in minimum income - it's a lie to call it a "living wage" - but then they are liars one and all aren't they. Giving a rise that isn't enough to live on while still widening the gap between earnings and pensions - only the Tories could pull that one off.

Tens of thousands of pensioners paid with their lives for this crass governments incompetence and this is how they have been treated.

What a load of charlatans.

PippaZ Wed 27-Oct-21 20:36:30

Sadly your analysis hits the mark Luckygirl.

Urmstongran Wed 27-Oct-21 21:19:49

The economy is booming, Mr Sunak cheerfully announced. Forecasts of mass unemployment were wrong. Estimates of the economic scarring due to the pandemic have been revised down, which meant that there was more money for seemingly everything.

The NHS, schools, in fact every government department: all will benefit from Mr Sunak’s beneficence. The foreign aid cut will be cancelled, universal credit claimants will get to keep more of their own money as their wages rise, and an unexpected reform of alcohol duty will reward drinkers of rosé (albeit at the expense of those who prefer red).

What’s not to like? Hmm.

MayBee70 Wed 27-Oct-21 21:27:29

MaizieD

The pandemic money doesn't have to be 'recovered' from anywhere. It was new money put into the economy via the Bank of England. It was not 'borrowed' and it isn't owed to anyone. Though it would be jolly nice to get back the £billions that disappeared into the useless Track and Trace system (see the report published today by the Public Accounts Committee) and that went to tory friends and relations for the supply of unusable PPE. Then there's the little matter of some Test labs which were sending everyone negative results (tory mates again...)

Tax wise, the rise that will affect the poor, National Insurance was announced ages ago.

Surely not, Maizie. He kept pointing out that it was the taxpayers money he was spending and was therefore being very careful. I did say to DH ‘I thought he borrowed and printed it as well’ but he didn’t seem to mention that….

MaizieD Wed 27-Oct-21 21:38:48

MayBee70

MaizieD

The pandemic money doesn't have to be 'recovered' from anywhere. It was new money put into the economy via the Bank of England. It was not 'borrowed' and it isn't owed to anyone. Though it would be jolly nice to get back the £billions that disappeared into the useless Track and Trace system (see the report published today by the Public Accounts Committee) and that went to tory friends and relations for the supply of unusable PPE. Then there's the little matter of some Test labs which were sending everyone negative results (tory mates again...)

Tax wise, the rise that will affect the poor, National Insurance was announced ages ago.

Surely not, Maizie. He kept pointing out that it was the taxpayers money he was spending and was therefore being very careful. I did say to DH ‘I thought he borrowed and printed it as well’ but he didn’t seem to mention that….

😂😂😂

It's 'public money' (N.B everyone is a taxpayer, unless they never buy anything) and there is absolutely no limit on how much the government 'could' spend so long as there are resources available for purchase.

Devorgilla Wed 27-Oct-21 21:45:17

I see it as an 'early election' budget and will wait for the other shoe to drop.

ElderlyPerson Wed 27-Oct-21 22:36:53

Devorgilla

I see it as an 'early election' budget and will wait for the other shoe to drop.

I had never known that idiom before and so I looked up both its meaning and its origin.

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wait_for_the_other_shoe_to_drop

A bit of an Egg of Columbus thing, once one knows the reason it is obvious, but not before. smile

Alegrias1 Wed 27-Oct-21 23:56:45

all will benefit from Mr Sunak’s beneficence. The foreign aid cut will be cancelled, universal credit claimants will get to keep more of their own money as their wages rise, and an unexpected reform of alcohol duty will reward drinkers of rosé.

And the little children will gambol and play with the fluffy baa-lambs and all will be well with the world. ✨🎉 🤗

growstuff Thu 28-Oct-21 05:19:21

Urmstongran

The economy is booming, Mr Sunak cheerfully announced. Forecasts of mass unemployment were wrong. Estimates of the economic scarring due to the pandemic have been revised down, which meant that there was more money for seemingly everything.

The NHS, schools, in fact every government department: all will benefit from Mr Sunak’s beneficence. The foreign aid cut will be cancelled, universal credit claimants will get to keep more of their own money as their wages rise, and an unexpected reform of alcohol duty will reward drinkers of rosé (albeit at the expense of those who prefer red).

What’s not to like? Hmm.

A few details are beginning to emerge. I've read the small print applying to schools. Originally, it was claimed that funding per pupil would be back to 2010 levels (accounting for inflation). That equates to about £1,500 per pupil on average, which indicates that pupils are currently underfunded by the same amount compared with 2010, when the Conservatives came to power.

However, what has now emerged is that the amount will be phased in and schools won't receive the full amount until 2025.

Meanwhile, the latest funding formula has meant that schools in deprived areas have lost funding, so that average amount will be less for the most needy schools.

It's funny that the details aren't included in the main statement. hmm

growstuff Thu 28-Oct-21 05:23:02

Incidentally, unemployed UC claimants won't receive any extra, although they'll still be hit by rising prices.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 06:52:02

I haven’t had time to digest it all yet, but I do notice that the richest man in parliament has reduced the cost of Champagne and air flights whilst living in a country with 2000 food banks and over 5million and rising children living in poverty.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 07:02:40

A quick scan, nothing seems to be announced that will tackle the big drop in living standards because of continued rising prices and shortages for the foreseeable future.

At best I suspect will be standing still but much more likely for those on a middle income and lower to feel a real drop in buying ability.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 07:10:53

Sunak seems to suggest that the rise in inflation will mean a rise in the BoE base rate.

Mortgages will almost certainly rise. Leading to even less buying power for families.

No VAT reduction on domestic energy I note, the cost of which is set to soar, but bankers have had their profit levied reduced from 8% to 3% and a windfall of £1bn.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 07:28:48

When the Tories came to power, one of the first things they did was to sell off and close the local community family centres.

These centres were one of the most effective pieces of legislation for the most deprived in our community that any government had ever achieved.

They incorporated Sure Start, which tackled pre-school learning for the poorest children, with staff that were gradually being upgraded to teachers. Many middle class parents recognised their quality and paid for their children to attend.

Within the same building there were social workers providing help with parenting skills, poverty etc.

It was one of the best resources for children in poverty ever advanced.

The Tories closed them all.

We have had 10 lost years.

Do not believe that what they say they intend to do now comes anywhere close to what they ruined.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 07:35:34

Oh! And council tax set to rise by a HUGE amount.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 28-Oct-21 07:58:35

I see personal tax threshold remains the same so in effect a cut by the rate of inflation, as this is usually raised by that year on year.

Deedaa Thu 28-Oct-21 08:43:24

growstuff wasn't it the chancellor who was recently talking about the unemployed up skilling and becoming nuclear scientists? At the time I thought it was a joke, but it's so hard to tell these days.