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Relationship between France and UK

(186 Posts)
Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 10:03:11

From an excellent article by Simon Jenkins, this from a former French Embassador to the UK:

........''Sadly, I feel Brexit has changed all this – and rivalries that were once largely convivial have turned sour and unfriendly.

France has been repeatedly accused of wanting to punish the UK for Brexit. The French position is simply that the decision to leave the European Union has made the UK a ““third country” – not a punishment but a term defined in EU treaties, with many legal and regulatory consequences. The French government and public opinion alike are irritated by what seems like Johnson’s determination to have his cake and eat it.''........

Coastpath Sat 04-Dec-21 10:12:06

In my opinion the sour, unfriendliness has been created by our government as a scapegoat for all the ills of Brexit. This myth has been perpetuated by certain factions of the press who have a vested interest and swallowed whole by all those delighted to have a scapegoat for the idiot idea that is Brexit.

You can't have the benefits of a club you don't belong to. That's it and all about it.

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 10:16:39

twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1466122815464169476?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466122815464169476%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvoxpoliticalonline.com%2F2021%2F12%2F04%2Fthis-french-critique-of-borisjohnson-is-bitingly-accurate-how-others-see-us-video%2F

Josianne Sat 04-Dec-21 10:23:48

^ rivalries that were once largely convivial have turned sour and unfriendly^

Love it! I'm just hoping the relationship, (and the apéros), with our French friends taste just as sweet as before after all this. Sour grapes is not a good thing! grin

Dickens Sat 04-Dec-21 10:24:26

Kali2

... "there's no solution to the problem while these two are in charge"

I think she's right.

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 10:32:18

Well yes. But the whole world is watching this and just cannot believe how Johnson is behaving- and how hypocritical his 'cake and eat' position, à la 'we signed the Deal' but we didn't mean it really, so give us some slack... It just does not, and cannot, work like this. HIS Deal has to be adhered to.

winterwhite Sat 04-Dec-21 10:41:14

Coastpath, absolutely right!

MaizieD Sat 04-Dec-21 10:44:24

I don't think that the English have yet got over the Napoleonic wars...

This souring of relationships, exacerbated by Brexit and the need for an 'enemy' to blame for all our Brexit related problems, is beyond childish.

One of my reasons for voting Remain in 1973 was that it would bring us closer to recognising that the UK is part of Europe and that it would help to heal divisions exacerbated by constant war with the continent. I'm saddened that Brexit has been an instrument for reviving old enmities.

Josianne Sat 04-Dec-21 10:44:37

his cake and eat it
Another difference on the subject of taste between us, the French say have his butter.

Seriously I can't see the whole world watching what Boris is up to. My Breton farming friends really don't give a stuff. Maybe they are too busy eating Brittany butter and just take it all with a pinch of salt (Guérande, of course).

Smileless2012 Sat 04-Dec-21 10:53:18

Well TBH I'm surprised that he says "rivalries which were once convivial". What are the once convivial rivalries he's referring too?

Why would the English have to "get over the Napoleonic wars" Mazie we were on the winning side with Prussia and Napoleon was defeated at the battle of Waterloo, which marked the end of Napoleon's reign and France's domination of Europe.

Coastpath Sat 04-Dec-21 10:58:50

Because to keep trotting out nonsense about wars that ended centuries ago makes us look really ridiculous, gloating and as though nothing positive has happened since for us to be proud of.

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 11:04:44

Josianne

^his cake and eat it^
Another difference on the subject of taste between us, the French say have his butter.

Seriously I can't see the whole world watching what Boris is up to. My Breton farming friends really don't give a stuff. Maybe they are too busy eating Brittany butter and just take it all with a pinch of salt (Guérande, of course).

le beurre et le prix du beurre ... et la laitière aussi

Butter and the butter money... and the milkmaid too)

I can assure you the whole world IS watching. I have coffee with my neighbours a couple of time a week, 2 are farmers and 1 a cleaning lady. And each time they say 'il est complètement tarré votre Johnson, totalement gaga' tapping the side of their head, toc toc.

They are not at all interested in politics- but they know about Johnson. And they regularly say he is even worse than Trump.

Same with all our friends- from Uni Professors, business men and women, farmers, engineers, butchers, bakers, builders, CEOs of major companies ... they all know what he is up to- and they all say he is mad as a hatter!

MaizieD Sat 04-Dec-21 11:06:14

Coastpath

Because to keep trotting out nonsense about wars that ended centuries ago makes us look really ridiculous, gloating and as though nothing positive has happened since for us to be proud of.

This 👆 Smileless

200 years on you still seem to think it matters. Pathetic.

Mamie Sat 04-Dec-21 11:09:41

I don't get the impression that people in France give the UK much thought to be honest.
The people I talk to think Johnson is a clown and not a serious politician. Intellectual ability and political debate are important here and "too clever by half" would not be something French people would say.
Macron is serious and intellectual and my impression is that he would not suffer fools gladly. I think the fact that he got on so well with Angela Merkel tells us a lot.
I certainly don't pick up any animosity towards the British people as a whole.

Smileless2012 Sat 04-Dec-21 11:11:46

Well you're the one who referred to it Maizie in your post @ 10.44 so if it was pathetic to mention it, why did you?

Petera Sat 04-Dec-21 11:17:44

Josianne

^his cake and eat it^
Another difference on the subject of taste between us, the French say have his butter.

Seriously I can't see the whole world watching what Boris is up to. My Breton farming friends really don't give a stuff. Maybe they are too busy eating Brittany butter and just take it all with a pinch of salt (Guérande, of course).

"avoir le beurre et l’argent du beurre", literally have the butter or the money from the butter.

Lincslass Sat 04-Dec-21 11:50:04

Coastpath

Because to keep trotting out nonsense about wars that ended centuries ago makes us look really ridiculous, gloating and as though nothing positive has happened since for us to be proud of.

Who is trotting that out, oh yes a remainer commentator no one else.

MaizieD Sat 04-Dec-21 11:54:18

Smileless2012

Well you're the one who referred to it Maizie in your post @ 10.44 so if it was pathetic to mention it, why did you?

You just proved my point, Smileless. "The English don't seem to have got over the Napoleonic wars." So you trot out a load of guff about how we won the battle of Waterloo... As if it mattered...

Smileless2012 Sat 04-Dec-21 11:59:59

Historical fact is not "a load of guff" Maizie if it doesn't matter then why did you bring it up in the first place? A pathetic opening line to your post @ 10.44.

I asked you why the English would need to get over the Napoleonic wars. A rather pathetic attempt on your part, to call me pathetic, to avoid a perfectly reasonable question based on your post.

If it doesn't matter then don't mention it.

MerylStreep Sat 04-Dec-21 12:02:19

Mamie

I don't get the impression that people in France give the UK much thought to be honest.
The people I talk to think Johnson is a clown and not a serious politician. Intellectual ability and political debate are important here and "too clever by half" would not be something French people would say.
Macron is serious and intellectual and my impression is that he would not suffer fools gladly. I think the fact that he got on so well with Angela Merkel tells us a lot.
I certainly don't pick up any animosity towards the British people as a whole.

Thank you 🙏 Mamie for giving a clearer picture.
My friends in Spain/ Portugal and Eastern Europe know nothing about it. Why would they?
As for the whole world is watching again 😱 No they’re not.
Perhaps our posters with family in Australia/ USA could tell us what they think because the whole world is watching
if it is being reported I imagine, like the majority of us, they don’t give a stuff.

dragonfly46 Sat 04-Dec-21 12:02:54

We have always been at odds with France.

We used to cross the Channel every year when De Gaulle was in charge. The local gendarmes were always there at the first junction stop sign to see if the wheels on the English cars actually stopped and if not we had an instant fine!

One year, however, we were greeted with a goody box of cheese, wine, pate etc. Not sure what we had done right that year but De Gaulle was in a good mood!!

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 12:05:57

Petera

Josianne

his cake and eat it
Another difference on the subject of taste between us, the French say have his butter.

Seriously I can't see the whole world watching what Boris is up to. My Breton farming friends really don't give a stuff. Maybe they are too busy eating Brittany butter and just take it all with a pinch of salt (Guérande, of course).

"avoir le beurre et l’argent du beurre", literally have the butter or the money from the butter.

Actually the whole proverb is 'on ne peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre' you can't (still) have the butter and the money (as you have sold it)...

Josianne Sat 04-Dec-21 12:07:07

Just what I meant Meryl though thinking about it there could be a mishap in translation?
The whole world? Tout le monde? Which in English just means "everybody" here and there. That might sound more palatable, though still incorrect.
Yes, a more reasoned post from Mamie.

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 12:09:14

MerylStreep

Mamie

I don't get the impression that people in France give the UK much thought to be honest.
The people I talk to think Johnson is a clown and not a serious politician. Intellectual ability and political debate are important here and "too clever by half" would not be something French people would say.
Macron is serious and intellectual and my impression is that he would not suffer fools gladly. I think the fact that he got on so well with Angela Merkel tells us a lot.
I certainly don't pick up any animosity towards the British people as a whole.

Thank you 🙏 Mamie for giving a clearer picture.
My friends in Spain/ Portugal and Eastern Europe know nothing about it. Why would they?
As for the whole world is watching again 😱 No they’re not.
Perhaps our posters with family in Australia/ USA could tell us what they think because the whole world is watching
if it is being reported I imagine, like the majority of us, they don’t give a stuff.

Do you live in Europe? Do you talk to locals, day in, day out ...?

I do. They do not necessarily understand all the 'ins and outs'- but they know one thing- that Johnson is a clown, a fools, and cannot be trusted- and in all walks of life- and they tell me, yes, constantly. They hide their faces and say 'il est totalement cingly votre Johnson, hein' ...They are just ordinary people, farmers, shop keepers, my hairdresser, my doctor, the carpenter and roofer, friends ...and more.

Kali2 Sat 04-Dec-21 12:19:16

Mamie does live in France, and I do respect her experience. However the fact her experience is very different from mine, does NOT mean that mine is not true and valid. Just different.

And yes, relatives and friends in the USA, OZ and NZ do take an interest in what is happening- and also despise Johnson and are very concerned- many because of the GFA- and it is clear there will be NO commercial or other Agreement with the USA as long as the GFA is threatened.