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Would 'The People' accept a highly redacted and incomplete report from Ms Gray?

(64 Posts)
Kali2 Mon 24-Jan-22 10:16:56

What do you think?

MaizieD Mon 24-Jan-22 10:26:43

It would be most unsatisfactory, but another question might be, 'Would 'The People' accept Johnson declaring himself not guilty whatever it said?

EllanVannin Mon 24-Jan-22 10:27:22

Why worry about what's happening with Russia when you have this partygate etc ?

Jane43 Mon 24-Jan-22 10:28:40

I think what we hear about will be that anyway.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 24-Jan-22 10:31:40

EllanVannin

Why worry about what's happening with Russia when you have this partygate etc ?

I take your point, but until Johnson and all the nonsense emanating from his entire government is got rid of we, very worryingly, wonโ€™t have a competent government to deal with anything else.

Zennomore Mon 24-Jan-22 10:33:36

Many people have the capacity to be worried by both.

Kim19 Mon 24-Jan-22 11:01:54

Will 'the people' have a choice?

AGAA4 Mon 24-Jan-22 11:05:06

The Russian problem is at the forefront of my mind but Johnson is guilty even if Sue Gray's enquiry takes the heat off him.

Happygirl79 Mon 24-Jan-22 11:08:38

Johnson will probably have set the questions in the Gray enquiry to make sure he isn't caught out.
Given that Gray is also interviewing the Metropolitan police and Dominic Cummings too
I think the full report will be damning however Boris has the final say so he will mark himself 10/10 and tell the public the matter is now closed and time to move on. This is normal behaviour for him. He has no respect for the law nor the British people. He thinks he is above the law.

EllanVannin Mon 24-Jan-22 11:09:04

Whitewavemark2 it'll be more of a worry if we have no leader at all given the imminence with Russia. It takes time electing a new leader, plus who do we have in place under the circumstances who could deal with a situation of impending trouble ?

Casdon Mon 24-Jan-22 11:09:37

Exactly Zennomore.
In answer to your question Kali2, I donโ€™t think so, but he is a condemned man regardless.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 24-Jan-22 11:12:02

EllanVannin

Whitewavemark2 it'll be more of a worry if we have no leader at all given the imminence with Russia. It takes time electing a new leader, plus who do we have in place under the circumstances who could deal with a situation of impending trouble ?

True - it is a shambles. And getting worse.

MaizieD Mon 24-Jan-22 11:16:05

Kim19

Will 'the people' have a choice?

The short answer to that is 'No'.

Apart from voting in general elections 'the people' have no power over government whatsoever.

Oldnproud Mon 24-Jan-22 11:17:45

When you have serious issues going on, it's even more essential that you have a trustworthy leader, and one with principles. Someone who can genuinely think beyond their own, personal advancement/standing.
Anyone who thinks that Johnson has those qualities must be either blind or stupid.

Ditto what Zennomore said.

MaizieD Mon 24-Jan-22 11:19:39

EllanVannin

Whitewavemark2 it'll be more of a worry if we have no leader at all given the imminence with Russia. It takes time electing a new leader, plus who do we have in place under the circumstances who could deal with a situation of impending trouble ?

What are you worrying about? We have a deputy PM. Dominic Raab can hold the fort. Probably from a beach somewhere in the sun using his mobile phone... What could possibly go wrong? hmm

Aveline Mon 24-Jan-22 11:27:59

No we won't be satisfied with redacted documents from government just as we're dissatisfied with the redacted docs we always seem to get from Scottish 'government'.
We want transparency from all elected politicians.

Shinamae Mon 24-Jan-22 11:30:08

Aveline

No we won't be satisfied with redacted documents from government just as we're dissatisfied with the redacted docs we always seem to get from Scottish 'government'.
We want transparency from all elected politicians.

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป

MaizieD Mon 24-Jan-22 12:34:39

Aveline

No we won't be satisfied with redacted documents from government just as we're dissatisfied with the redacted docs we always seem to get from Scottish 'government'.
We want transparency from all elected politicians.

David Allen Green did an interesting blog on that point yesterday:

Transparency is of limited import unless it can be enforced against the will of those with political power.

And here we have the further problem โ€“ especially in the United Kingdom โ€“ of traditions and structures that make it almost impossible for anyone outside public bodies to find out what is going on โ€“ unless those with public power allow it.

Here one can point to, for example, official secrets legislation that is as tough as freedom of information legislation is weak.

We have well-resourced taxpayer-funded government press offices that will not tell the media anything unless it suits the government of the day.

We have weekly lies and non-answers in parliamentary debates.

And so on, and so on.

There is almost nothing which anyone outside government can do to force this transparency.

There's more on 'possible' remedies

davidallengreen.com/2022/01/accountability-needs-transparency-and-both-need-to-be-enforceable-by-legal-remedies/

M0nica Mon 24-Jan-22 13:10:21

No

Kali2 Mon 24-Jan-22 13:14:33

MaizieD

EllanVannin

Whitewavemark2 it'll be more of a worry if we have no leader at all given the imminence with Russia. It takes time electing a new leader, plus who do we have in place under the circumstances who could deal with a situation of impending trouble ?

What are you worrying about? We have a deputy PM. Dominic Raab can hold the fort. Probably from a beach somewhere in the sun using his mobile phone... What could possibly go wrong? hmm

Oh and Liz Truss- I feel all warm and cozy in that knowledge now (NOT!!!)

Cold Mon 24-Jan-22 13:16:23

No

After all of the lies and evasion, only the full report will do

BlueBelle Mon 24-Jan-22 13:18:18

I wouldnโ€™t trust Johnson to deliver a jelly on a plate he s say it was Xavier and half the people round them table would believe him !!!

Petera Mon 24-Jan-22 13:23:00

EllanVannin

Why worry about what's happening with Russia when you have this partygate etc ?

Because the people who will have to make the ultimate decisions about Russia are showing that they can't even organise a piss-up in their back garden?

Greta Mon 24-Jan-22 14:01:06

I can help but wondering how easy it has been for Sue Gray to access relevant information. Is it conceivable that there has been quite a bit of deleting of text messages/emails etc by some MPs at the time they knew that Sue Gray was going to investigate? Surely not!

MissAdventure Mon 24-Jan-22 14:08:40

The people will accept whatever old tripe they're told.
As per usual, because that is how this government works.
They really don't care.