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Pension, triple lock and inflation

(61 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Thu 19-May-22 06:44:24

There are calls from numerous charities like age concern, as well as pressure from MPs, for the government to bring forward next years pension rise to now in order to help pensioners in poverty and those likely to find themselves newly in poverty as a result of the catastrophic price rises in fuel and food.

The treasury are saying that it is technically too difficult.

If it is the case, then they should be tackling the difficulty now as without assistance I dread to think what the result is going to be for these folk.

DiamondLily Thu 19-May-22 07:32:45

They could, at least, restore this year's triple lock, backdated to April.

That would mean a bit more pension every week for everyone.

And, as the DWP/Pensions system is well used to paying backdated payments, and altering week;y amounts, this shouldn't be complicated at all.

Dinahmo Thu 19-May-22 12:11:36

I think that there should be a windfall tax and that it should be used to bring in the triple lock for pensions and increase UC.

There is no point in increasing the personal tax allowance since many of the poorer people don't earn as much as the PA. Instead, to help those low earners they should bring in a lower rate band of 10% . If the band was £5000 then there would be a tax saving of £500.

Directors of SMEs who pay themselves a low salary and take the rest as dividends would benefit from this but a corresponding band with a tax rate of 25% which should cancel out the saving made on the 10% band.

Obviously both bands would apply to everyone.

rosie1959 Thu 19-May-22 12:17:32

If they are going to introduce a windfall tax then it should be targeted to those most in need giving them a decent size boost to rising costs bearing in mind that all people in receipt of state pension are not hard up

Happygirl79 Thu 19-May-22 13:42:18

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the government changing the state pension until April next year. If they increase it now it would be even more next year than they ever intend to pay as its cumulative. It would be a certain percentage of the state pension figure in place at that time. If they do anything it will be another one off council tax rebate at best

Happygirl79 Thu 19-May-22 13:43:29

Happygirl79

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the government changing the state pension until April next year. If they increase it now it would be even more next year than they ever intend to pay as its cumulative. It would be a certain percentage of the state pension figure in place at that time. If they do anything it will be another one off council tax rebate at best

And I say this as a single pensioner on the breadline! I have to go out walking to keep warm

Doodledog Thu 19-May-22 14:43:47

The trouble with 'targeting' any help via the pension is that it will bring it a step closer to being means-tested, which would, IMO be as big a travesty as the delay in SPA for women.

I agree that restoring this year's triple lock would be a sensible way forward (and I speak as someone with years to wait for mine).

Spinnaker Thu 19-May-22 14:52:45

Doodledog

The trouble with 'targeting' any help via the pension is that it will bring it a step closer to being means-tested, which would, IMO be as big a travesty as the delay in SPA for women.

I agree that restoring this year's triple lock would be a sensible way forward (and I speak as someone with years to wait for mine).

Agreed Doodledog.

I just have this awful feeling that the triple lock for next year will be shelved again - even though they promised not to. But since when did that mean anything ?

StarDreamer Thu 19-May-22 15:25:29

Dinahmo wrote There is no point in increasing the personal tax allowance since many of the poorer people don't earn as much as the PA. Instead, to help those low earners they should bring in a lower rate band of 10% . If the band was £5000 then there would be a tax saving of £500.

With all due respect I disagree about having a 10% band, because people whose gross income is in the lower half of that tax band still pay 10%.

If instead of a £5000 wide band at 10% the personal allowance were raised by £2500, but the 20% rate retained, then people whose gross income is in the lower half of the suggested 10% band would then be taxed at 0% rather than 10%.

When the then Labour government announced the abolition of the then 10% band I was pleased as I thought that they meant abolition, but what they meant was conversion to a 20% band.

Give him his due, in a televised three leaders debate before the 2010 election, Nick Clegg promised raising the personal allowance to £10000 per annum if the Liberal Democrats won the general election - it was around £6500 at the time if I remember correctly - and the Liberal Democrats did not win the General Election, but did become part of The Coaliton, and the personal allowance did indeed rise to £10000 in that Parliamentary term.

The rise in the energy price cap from October 2021 is not due to become reflected in State Pensions until during April 2023.

So as things stand, as the next adjustment to the energy price cap is due on 1 October 2022, any cost of living rise caused by that will not be reflected in State Pensions until during April 2024 at best.

DiamondLily Thu 19-May-22 15:28:32

rosie1959

If they are going to introduce a windfall tax then it should be targeted to those most in need giving them a decent size boost to rising costs bearing in mind that all people in receipt of state pension are not hard up

No, but when I was 16, I was promised a full pension at 60, if I worked and paid full NI, which I did.

Then, the goalposts moved and I had to wait an extra 6 years.🙄

When I finally got it, I was promised the triple lock, and then that stopped this year.

Two promises broken.

I might not be particularly hard up, because DH and I paid in for good private pensions, but I would like the government to stick to the odd promise they made me over the years.🙄

Chewbacca Thu 19-May-22 15:36:22

when I was 16, I was promised a full pension at 60, if I worked and paid full NI, which I did.
Then, the goalposts moved and I had to wait an extra 6 years. 🙄
When I finally got it, I was promised the triple lock, and then that stopped this year.
Two promises broken.

Exactly the same for me too Diamond, I'm feeling like I've been well and truly shafted. angry

rosie1959 Thu 19-May-22 15:37:26

DiamondLily

rosie1959

If they are going to introduce a windfall tax then it should be targeted to those most in need giving them a decent size boost to rising costs bearing in mind that all people in receipt of state pension are not hard up

No, but when I was 16, I was promised a full pension at 60, if I worked and paid full NI, which I did.

Then, the goalposts moved and I had to wait an extra 6 years.🙄

When I finally got it, I was promised the triple lock, and then that stopped this year.

Two promises broken.

I might not be particularly hard up, because DH and I paid in for good private pensions, but I would like the government to stick to the odd promise they made me over the years.🙄

I also will not get my pension until I am 67 but I feel this is a different matter any windfall tax needs to be spent on those who really need it. For us fuel bills and the increase in food costs are a pain but we will not suffer I don’t have to choose wether to heat my home or feed the family. Spread any windfall amount too much will result in those in greatest need getting less

StarDreamer Thu 19-May-22 15:39:33

Whitwavemark2 wrote The treasury are saying that it is technically too difficult.

I can well believe that in the days long ago when everything was done by hand that measuring inflation in September one year and that figure being used to increase pensions the next April was probably reasonable.

As there are now very fast and powerful computers I wonder if, if there were a political will to do it, it would be possible for each month the monthly inflation figure be computed and the pensions increased from the start of the next month, so that if inflation was above 0% then pensions would increase but if inflation were below 0% the pension rate would remain unchanged, so not go down, but that the negative inflation would be carried forward until offset by a future monthly inflation figure or future monthly inflation figures.

That would be good as inflation would be reflected promptly in raised pensions.

DiamondLily Thu 19-May-22 15:43:38

Chewbacca

^when I was 16, I was promised a full pension at 60, if I worked and paid full NI, which I did.^
Then, the goalposts moved and I had to wait an extra 6 years. 🙄
When I finally got it, I was promised the triple lock, and then that stopped this year.
Two promises broken.

Exactly the same for me too Diamond, I'm feeling like I've been well and truly shafted. angry

Yes, I'm beginning to feel a victim lol ...🙄.

I may as well have not bothered to work during the "children" years.🙁

OakDryad Thu 19-May-22 15:53:29

Me too DiamondLily and Chewbacca. Worked from age 16, widowed young, did my financial planning based on getting state pension as 60 and bam - another six years and, as soon as I am eligible, the triple lock is suspended. Not good for blood pressure to calculate how many tens of thousands of pounds we have been shafted out of.

Equalise a system that dates back to when most women did not work outside the home and most men married women younger than than themselves. Fair enough. WASPIs had no argument with that. But recognise that we had a contract to receive our state pensions at 60 that the government reneged on.

DiamondLily Thu 19-May-22 15:56:36

OakDryad

Me too DiamondLily and Chewbacca. Worked from age 16, widowed young, did my financial planning based on getting state pension as 60 and bam - another six years and, as soon as I am eligible, the triple lock is suspended. Not good for blood pressure to calculate how many tens of thousands of pounds we have been shafted out of.

Equalise a system that dates back to when most women did not work outside the home and most men married women younger than than themselves. Fair enough. WASPIs had no argument with that. But recognise that we had a contract to receive our state pensions at 60 that the government reneged on.

Yes, I am more than peeved about it. I don't think I would have been any worse off not working, providing I'd also sorted out a private endowment pension.🙁

Grany Thu 19-May-22 21:01:39

Mhairi Black: I fear we have been sleepwalking closer and closer to the F word

labourheartlands.com/mhairi-black-i-fear-we-have-been-sleepwalking-closer-and-closer-to-the-f-word/?fbclid=IwAR3hKN9IZn1zN4eEiTibfdC_TFhSQNTXL3mHYPZJ7805Rl_GRTUEJKTqxJs

Dinahmo Thu 19-May-22 21:14:29

StarDreamer My point is that there are many people who are earning less than the PA so to increase it would be of no benefit to them.

paddyann54 Thu 19-May-22 21:49:03

Good speech from oor Mhairi ,she consistently hits the nail squarely on the head.Shame the "real" opposition aren't as accurate or honest .Fascism has been clearly staring us in the face for almost a decade and its now reached a stage where it may be very hard to change the steady march forward the tories are taking with it.
Surely there are politicians who can bring Boris and his vile policies to a halt ...soon ,before its too late .

OakDryad Thu 19-May-22 22:22:52

Mhairi Black on WASPIs:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJrFWGrd_tw

StarDreamer Thu 19-May-22 22:42:11

Dinahmo

StarDreamer My point is that there are many people who are earning less than the PA so to increase it would be of no benefit to them.

Thank you for replying.

I suppose it needs a negative income tax band so that people earning less than the personal allowance get a take home pay greater than their gross pay, automatically, without needing to apply for a means-tested benefit. I think that it could be done by not raising the personal allowance as such so that people start paying tax at the personal allowance level as now but for those earning more than the personal allowance woud nevertheless pay less tax too.

Happygirl79 Sun 22-May-22 11:16:48

I don't trust this government. They lie and mislead people for their own ends. I retired early to enable my son to work being left as a single parent for my grandchildren having saved enough to see me through to 60. Then goals posts continually moved until I could retire at 66.The savings were totally gone well before then. Now inflation is raging and the triple lock is gone. I don't honestly dare believe it will ever be restored. I am a happy individual but life is getting harder. Its becoming a fight to exist these days

Ailidh Sun 22-May-22 11:46:13

I'm with DiamondLily et al.

Emelle Sun 22-May-22 12:01:12

My guess is the Government (Tories) will offer Pensioners some kind of 'bribe' as we approach the next General Election and they realise they need the 'Silver vote'. I, for one, will not forget the way they have treated the older generation over the last few years - the Triple lock, the 50s born women and the lack of protection the Care Homes and their residents got at the beginning of the Pandemic to name but a few!

CvD66 Sun 22-May-22 12:15:30

Our country has the lowest pension rate in the Europe. We women have been penalised by the Tories and made to work way longer than other countries . Several years ago the BBC did a programme about pensioners starving. Now we have a cost of living crisis and it’s not over yet. Given the pensioners who died before their time in COVID one does start to think this government want to solve their pension crisis by bumping off as many pensioners as they can. After all they won’t object loudly, will they?