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Proportional Representation

(58 Posts)
varian Sat 18-Jun-22 10:22:43

Yesterday the biggest trade union Unison decisively backed a change to proportional representation for parliamentary elections.

At last year's Labour Party conference 80% of constituency representatives backed a change to PR but the motion was defeated by the union block vote. Subsequently the country's second biggest union, Unite, decided to support PR so we can now hope that the Labour Party will finally realise how damaging our undemocratic FPTP electoral system has been and support PR for future elections.

labourlist.org/2022/06/unison-vote-to-back-pr-hailed-as-huge-boost-by-electoral-reform-campaigners/

varian Sat 18-Jun-22 10:24:03

labourlist.org/2022/06/unison-vote-to-back-pr-hailed-as-huge-boost-by-electoral-reform-campaigners/

MaizieD Sat 18-Jun-22 10:52:11

Was the Unite decision to back PR taken under its new leader, Sharon Graham?

She's proving to be very impressive, IMO. this is good stuff:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/17/profiteering-bosses-workers-inflation-unite-sharon-graham-labour

(I know it's not Unison, before anyone tells me I'm confusing the two)

Dinahmo Sat 18-Jun-22 13:51:24

Very good news. I hope that the LP leadership follows suit.

varian Sun 19-Jun-22 10:46:05

Labour MP Jonathan Reynolds made a strong case for electoral reform when I trouncing his proposed Representation of the People Act which of course was voted down by most of the undemocratically elected and unrepresentative MPs

www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/what-are-voting-systems/proportional-representation/

varian Sun 19-Jun-22 10:46:47

Introducing not I trouncing!

lixy Sun 19-Jun-22 10:51:26

Good - the sooner the better. It will encourage politicians to listen before writing a manifesto I hope.
Sharon Graham is really transformative, and a great leader.

Zonne Sun 19-Jun-22 13:16:57

Firmly in favour of PR, and I hope we’re now moving in that direction.

varian Sun 26-Jun-22 02:49:22

Andy Burnham urges the Labour Party to back PR after the two by-elections

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/25/andy-burnham-says-labour-must-seize-moment-and-back-proportional-representation

Whitewavemark2 Sun 26-Jun-22 04:31:57

I’m going to write to my MP

vegansrock Sun 26-Jun-22 06:16:36

How would PR work in the U.K. I wonder? Would there be much bigger constituencies with say 3 MPs voted in on PR or would each voter get preferential votes like we do in the mayoral election ? I’m all in favour just thinking about the practicalities.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 26-Jun-22 06:58:48

I think that there are a number of choices. I did look at it in depth years ago but have forgotten.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 26-Jun-22 07:02:33

It would be totally ironic though. The Tories chose him as leader knowing full well his fatal character flaws, but thought they could foist him on the British public to gain another term in parliament.

He may though be the reason for their demise.

Fennel Sun 26-Jun-22 17:20:43

In principle PR seems to be the fairer electoral system. But in practice there are disadvantages.
eg Israel, which has PR. The current govt. coalition has had to resign as it can't get a sufficient majority to pass laws.
The 5th election in 3 years.

varian Sun 26-Jun-22 17:22:02

All but two European countries elect their governments by PR.

The only exceptions are the UK and Belarus.

Urmstongran Sun 26-Jun-22 18:12:53

Not for me. Everyone ends up with a government they don’t want - the idea being that groups talk nicely to one another/persuade each other with cogent arguments/thrash out disagreements and come to a workable solution. The reality is there is constant bickering/jockeying for position/behind the scenes horse trading and little f importance gets done. ‘You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’. Politics is a dirty business. They’d all start out as chums but before long the deep splits would surface.

varian Sun 26-Jun-22 18:17:45

Better stick to FPTP and be governed by a elected dictatorship, voted in by a minority, just like Belarus.

varian Sun 26-Jun-22 18:18:53

Missed out the ??????

Urmstongran Sun 26-Jun-22 18:28:14

An elected dictatorship. Hmm. I think there’s the consideration of a manifesto to be taken into account too.

varian Sun 26-Jun-22 18:30:24

The phrase "elective dictatorship" (also called executive dominance in political science) describes the state in which a typical Westminster system state's parliament is dominated by the government of the day. It refers to the fact that the legislative programme of Parliament is determined by the government, and government bills virtually always pass the legislature because of the nature of the majoritarian first-past-the-post electoral system, which almost always produces strong government, in combination with the imposition of party discipline on the governing party's majority, which almost always ensures loyalty.

The phrase was popularised by the former Lord Chancellor of the United Kingdom, Lord Hailsham, in a Richard Dimbleby Lecture at the BBC in 1976.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_dictatorship

DaisyAnne Sun 26-Jun-22 19:20:10

There could be a chant. Instead of "We want our country back" it could be "I want my vote to count". At least this time it would mean something.

Currently, out of an electorate of tens of millions it comes down to about 300,000 to decide who forms the government. That is not making our vote count.

Urmstongran Sun 26-Jun-22 19:23:39

I’m always out of step on these threads! 😮

Gin Sun 26-Jun-22 19:44:26

I expect there are many like me for whom it is quite pointless voting as my constituency as been through and through blue since time began. At least with pr I would feel I had some input.

growstuff Sun 26-Jun-22 20:03:22

Gin

I expect there are many like me for whom it is quite pointless voting as my constituency as been through and through blue since time began. At least with pr I would feel I had some input.

Same here Gin. The current system makes a mockery of democracy.

growstuff Sun 26-Jun-22 20:04:45

Urmstongran

Not for me. Everyone ends up with a government they don’t want - the idea being that groups talk nicely to one another/persuade each other with cogent arguments/thrash out disagreements and come to a workable solution. The reality is there is constant bickering/jockeying for position/behind the scenes horse trading and little f importance gets done. ‘You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’. Politics is a dirty business. They’d all start out as chums but before long the deep splits would surface.

Germany hasn't done too badly since the end of WW2. Maybe the UK should look at what Germany has got right.