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Is this a battle we need to win?

(11 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 26-Jun-22 09:42:43

Jess Phillips MP

Madeleine Albright warned before her death about the rising Fascism in the US. Never assume liberal democracy is the default, that progress won is in the bank and doesn't need constant forceful protection.

I saw this quote posted by Jess Philips. She posted it as a result of watching Trump at a rally celebrating the win in court of the anti-abortionist.

The comments by the speakers did nothing to hide their white supremacy victory speeches. Talking about saving white lives etc.

Womens human rights are being violated in the USA

In the U.K. our human rights are under attack, as are the various and ancient institutions like separation of powers and the glue that has held the U.K. society together.

I think that we should be just as alarmed and take Albright’s message very seriously.

volver Sun 26-Jun-22 10:03:27

In answer to your question, yes. This is a battle we need to win.

I was really surprised yesterday to read that posters on here don't think that this or that will happen in the UK - abortions won't be banned, we won't see the death penalty. Have people been hiding in a hole for the last couple of years?

The Home Office are trying to illegally deport people. They will do this to you eventually, if your face doesn't fit.

NotSpaghetti Sun 26-Jun-22 10:05:03

I agree, we are just as vulnerable and already have things such as the Borders and Nationality Bill which means we can be stripped of citizenship without notice, Human Rights Act with the "bill of rights" which seems to be a bill of less rights, the loss of rights to freedom of peaceful assembly, and numerous other losses.
Then there was widespread use of Do Not Attempt Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation orders for certain vulnerable groups during the pandemic (don't know if this is still going on?).
The government-chartered mass deportation flights to Rawanda.
The extended use of police stop-and-search powers.
Anti-Gypsy, Roma, Traveller legislation which makes it an offence to reside in a vehicle somewhere without specific consent.
Allowing ministers to request information about individuals from public bodies, thus eroding existing safeguards on data sharing.

The list goes on.
Sometimes it's through deliberate omission (eg the anti-conversion laws).

Sad days.

Blossoming Sun 26-Jun-22 10:06:44

Yes, we need to win. Sometimes people don’t see what’s right in front of them until it’s too late.

Farzanah Sun 26-Jun-22 10:10:52

I definitely agree, and populism and demonising certain groups, ie immigrants, plays into the narrative. Just look at the history of Jews in Europe prior to WWII.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 26-Jun-22 10:22:20

I think that what happens now in the run up to the next election will be absolutely critical.

Katie59 Sun 26-Jun-22 11:10:52

I don’t see a direct threat to the right to choose in the UK, in any case this extreme right wing lot will not be in power much longer.

In the US Trump still has a lot of support and should not be written off. Biden struggles and Harris is becoming tarnished, all bets are off at the next election.

volver Sun 26-Jun-22 11:20:19

I think you are missing the point Katie59. We can't be complacent and think that will never happen here.

There are people on this forum who keep telling us that Johnson is more popular than Starmer, that Starmer isn't the one to win the next election, that nasty secret electoral pacts are being made and sometimes, that Johnson isn't extreme enough. Despite the huge swing to Lib Dem in Devon on Thursday, 40% of people who voted, voted for Johnson's party.

There are people who are a lot more right wing that this lot and they are just in the wings. They might easily win next time, then where are we? People only get the governments they vote for, and Britain voted for this lot. There are a lot of people in the country who think they are doing a great job, clearly.

Caleo Sun 26-Jun-22 11:22:10

"Never assume liberal democracy is the default" (Madeleine Albright).

Evil and chaos is the default. We can almost identify the good by its vulnerability.

Caleo Sun 26-Jun-22 11:23:23

PS Whitewavemark, thanks for the quotation.

Zonne Sun 26-Jun-22 11:35:57

Among the furore over Johnson saying he was planning his third term, there wasn’t a great deal of publicity about why. He said it’s because:

‘We’ve embarked on a massive project to change the government, of the constitution of the country, the way we run our legal system, the way we manage our borders, our economy…’

And all of these changes are to be achieved by concentrating power in the executive, at the expense of Parliament, rendering our votes even more meaningless and ineffective.

Democracy is being subverted in front of us, overtly and covertly, so of course we need to both fight back and win.