Gransnet forums

News & politics

Ukraine

(56 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 11-Sep-22 11:35:33

Astoundingly just as the Ukrainian General predicted, the tide will turn in August/September and the Russians will be gone by Christmas.

grandtanteJE65 Sun 11-Sep-22 11:41:42

Why astonishing?

Given the state of the Russian army, it was surely only to be expected?

However you may well be over-confident regarding their retreat, as by now there are neither railways, nor bridges for them to cross as they will need to, to get back to Russia! If the have to detour through the Crimea, it will take longer than to Christmas.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 11-Sep-22 12:00:56

grandtanteJE65

Why astonishing?

Given the state of the Russian army, it was surely only to be expected?

However you may well be over-confident regarding their retreat, as by now there are neither railways, nor bridges for them to cross as they will need to, to get back to Russia! If the have to detour through the Crimea, it will take longer than to Christmas.

You misunderstand me. My astonishment was because the Ukrainian General appears to have predicted this correctly back in May

Dinahmo Sun 11-Sep-22 12:15:21

Let us hope that the General's prediction comes to fruition.

One has to feel sorry (just a little) for the Russian soldiers. They didn't ask for this was and they will be retreating during very cold and snowy weather. Shades of the French retreating from Moscow when Napoleon withdrew.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 11-Sep-22 12:18:53

I think we should all be aware that President Putin will not look on this favourably. Now is not the time for jubilation or for the Ukrainians to relax in their victories

President Putin still has military options which if actioned will be catastrophic.

nanna8 Sun 11-Sep-22 12:20:16

They might be able to stay with their Russian relatives who live in the Ukraine. There are around 11 million or so , they should be able to find a distant cousin or two.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 11-Sep-22 12:23:31

GrannyGravy13

I think we should all be aware that President Putin will not look on this favourably. Now is not the time for jubilation or for the Ukrainians to relax in their victories

President Putin still has military options which if actioned will be catastrophic.

Yes that has occurred to me.

Please don’t think that I am jubilant, I was simply highlighting something the General had predicted a few months ago.

CatsCatsCats Sun 11-Sep-22 12:27:48

I daren't feel too celebratory because every time the media reports something good happening re Ukraine, a few days later Russia commits some other awful act against them.

Callistemon21 Sun 11-Sep-22 12:33:39

CatsCatsCats

I daren't feel too celebratory because every time the media reports something good happening re Ukraine, a few days later Russia commits some other awful act against them.

That's how I feel too.

Holding my breath and hoping .....

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 12:25:30

But for how long?

Knowing Putin, in the sense that we all know he is untrustworthy, Could he not be deliberatly letting the Ukrainians feel that their prophecy has come true and be deliberately letting them make this advance so he can come back against them in a way that is even more terrible and devastating than the ruin he has already wrought on that unfortunate country.

MaizieD Mon 12-Sep-22 14:16:42

There are reports that the failure of the Russian army is being criticised in Russia, and that there have been calls for his resignation.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Sep-22 14:30:12

I saw a video of a television programme screened in Russia, being very critical of Putin and the way the war was started and being conducted.

He’s probably now in prison.

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 15:10:58

I must now eat humble pie and admit that PUtinisn't half as clever as I thought him.

Just after I wrote Could he not be deliberatly letting the Ukrainians feel that their prophecy has come true and be deliberately letting them make this advance so he can come back against them in a way that is even more terrible and devastating than the ruin he has already wrought on that unfortunate country. I heard the news.

Far from being a Putin set-up it seems he fell for the first trick in the book, doing exactly what Hitler did before D Day when he fell for the Allies diversion programme that led him to believe the invasion would be via Calais so he moved troops from Normandy to Calais.

For the last few months Zelensky has been talking about a new operation via Kherson and Putin has heard and been moving troops and equipment to the area.

Meanwhile the Ukrainians had been quietly massing troops and equipment in the Kharkov region, without the Russians noticing, and the recent surge of Ukraine troops into that region was totally unexpected . Russian soldiers have left meals on the table and just run, when they found the Ukrainians on their doorstep and they have left so much equipment behind that it is actually holding up the speed of the Ukrainian advance.

Like every country Ukraine has a checkered history, right up to the Russian invasion, but my goodness, the last 6 months has been their finest hou, however this war ends.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:18:17

Yes, I must confess knowing nothing about Ukraine, but since the war started I have done a bit of reading. Not the most pleasant country in the world. Apparently domestic violence is startlingly common, and women are definitely not treated equally.

Zoejory Mon 12-Sep-22 15:22:13

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I must confess knowing nothing about Ukraine, but since the war started I have done a bit of reading. Not the most pleasant country in the world. Apparently domestic violence is startlingly common, and women are definitely not treated equally.

Really? I'll have a word with my very well adjusted Ukranian daughter in law

In what respect are women not treated equally?

Allsorts Mon 12-Sep-22 15:26:40

Really.! Think I will wait and see. The Russians have left the country devastated. My admiration for the Ukraines is immense, their leader is someone they can all be proud of. I really wish them peace and happiness.

Callistemon21 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:29:46

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I must confess knowing nothing about Ukraine, but since the war started I have done a bit of reading. Not the most pleasant country in the world. Apparently domestic violence is startlingly common, and women are definitely not treated equally.

Whereas the Russians have always shown the greatest respect for the women and children living in neighbouring countries.

I wonder why they fled from the Russian "liberators" at the end of WW11?

Ukraine was not far above the revered Finland for % cases of domestic violence.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:30:25

Zoejory

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I must confess knowing nothing about Ukraine, but since the war started I have done a bit of reading. Not the most pleasant country in the world. Apparently domestic violence is startlingly common, and women are definitely not treated equally.

Really? I'll have a word with my very well adjusted Ukranian daughter in law

In what respect are women not treated equally?

Well, I didn’t read that they were not well adjusted😄, just that they have had a long hard fight to get equality, but the war is putting their gains back.

Domestic violence was only criminalised in 2019.

I would be pleased to hear otherwise.

Kim19 Mon 12-Sep-22 15:43:04

GrannyGravy13, how I agree. Beware the man scorned. Rather worrying indeed.

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 15:52:03

No one has suggested that Ukraine is a perfect country. What country is? But do I understand that some people are saying that everything the Ukrainians have one over the last six months is to be negated because they have a high level of domestic violence?

That is ridiculous. Is everything we do to help them to be negated because the UK also has a poor record on domestic violence as well?

Should all humanitarian aid to countries like Pakistan, suffering so terribly from extensive flooding, or, in the past countries like Haiti, be withheld because their rate of domestic violence is worse than ours?

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Sep-22 16:18:40

M0nica

No one has suggested that Ukraine is a perfect country. What country is? But do I understand that some people are saying that everything the Ukrainians have one over the last six months is to be negated because they have a high level of domestic violence?

That is ridiculous. Is everything we do to help them to be negated because the UK also has a poor record on domestic violence as well?

Should all humanitarian aid to countries like Pakistan, suffering so terribly from extensive flooding, or, in the past countries like Haiti, be withheld because their rate of domestic violence is worse than ours?

Now whose remarks are ridiculous!?

Of course by no means does the result of my reading negate our support of Ukraine, nor our support of any other country.

Do get a grip

M0nica Mon 12-Sep-22 20:22:08

Whitewave I merely asked the question But do I understand that some people are saying that everything the Ukrainians have one over the last six months is to be negated because they have a high level of domestic violence?

I think even bringing the subject up is irrelevant. Before the war, Ukraine was far from the promised land, even by our standards. It was, may be still, a massively corrupt country, with orphanages that reminded people of those found in Roumania after the death of Ceaușescu. Working condtions were often poor and it is still a racist country - and we could go on for hours listing all its imperfections.

But to refer to any of that, including domestic violence, is to completely misunderstand what the basis of this war is and why we support it.

Ukraine was an independent country and it has been invaded without justification or reason by a much larger country that wants to conquer it, remove its independence and incorporate it back into a country, it has chosen to no longer be part of. That is it, end of. Everything else is irrelevant.

Katie59 Mon 12-Sep-22 20:58:04

They thought WW1 would be over by Christmas - it wasn’t.
Too soon to predict a quick end that’s propaganda, Ukraine will continue to fight for sure, as long as NATO continues arms supply. Putin won’t back down, the best we can hope for is for him to be replaced, maybe that will happen, until then bloodshed will continue.
Russia is fighting on a very long front they cannot possibly hold all the territory with the troops they have, either they escalate, or retreat to a position they can hold

Whitewavemark2 Tue 13-Sep-22 05:54:57

monica my goodness, your adeptness at misreading the entirety of my posts and reading into them stuff that is entirely wrong is quite startling.

I think I shall leave it at that, except to advise you to step back a little and understand that some posts should be taken entirely at face value - I replied to your remarks about Ukraine that I had been doing a bit of reading about the country. I then posted a bit of what I’d read. That was it - end of. You might have replied saying my facts were wrong and pointed to a source, or you might have glossed over or ignored what I said.
But to then enter a realm of fantasy assuming that because if what I’d read I believed our support should be less etc, was ridiculous.
You then posted that I misunderstood the basis of the war —WHAT!!,
How on earth does a mild chatty post about domestic violence etc, bring about such a lecture from you based on entirely wrong assumptions.

This is my final post on the matter.

halfpint1 Tue 13-Sep-22 08:03:26

Well said Whitewave