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How soon before the next step to privatising the state schools?

(385 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 19-Sep-22 18:18:35

Most schools ask for some small things to be paid for by the parents. What happens with the next step - when it's either no heat or electricity or charging a small fee?

Will your GCs be in a school where parents are affluent enough to help and get the children sufficient education? Fees will certainly stop the children of the "underserving" poor from competing with those children coming from a "sense of entitlement" background. There will be no STEM teaching in some of the schools with children from poorer families; it's far too expensive. STEM jobs are well paid, this way they will be left to the children of the better paid. Isn't that exactly how the Conservatives think it should be? This government will steal children's education - something you can never get back.

This winter, parents will be asked by schools, by PTAs, to top up in a way none of us has seen before. Perhaps this will stop those arguing for the abolition of independent schools and get them to concentrate where it matters right now: on the drip, drip privatisation of state schools.

GagaJo Mon 19-Sep-22 18:27:21

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 19-Sep-22 18:40:45

I started senior school in 1968, my parents had to contribute to the school fund back then.

Where do you get your information that parents are going to have to contribute to their children’s schooling in state schools in this school year?

Blondiescot Mon 19-Sep-22 18:45:47

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

Well said!

Doodledog Mon 19-Sep-22 19:00:34

Blondiescot

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

Well said!

I agree with you both.

I fervently hope, more than I think I have ever done before (and that includes 1997) that we get a change of party at the next election. Even then, the past 12 years has done so much damage that I don't know if we can recover, but at least there will be a will to do so, and the worse excesses of the direction in which we are heading will be headed off.

icanhandthemback Mon 19-Sep-22 19:02:12

We'd have a lot of work to do before the State could take on all the pupils from Independent schools. Schools around here are bursting at the seams, vacancies go unfilled and all the money that the parents pay in their taxes for their private school children would have to be found for the schools where there are places.
Quite frankly, the secondary school for provision of education around here was the only reason we opted for an Independent school. The behaviour of the kids was so dire our boy couldn't get any work done, was lambasted for being clever and conscientious and the whole thing was a nightmare.
We aren't rich but we spent every penny of our savings plus most of my husband's pension lump sum to allow our son to work in a different ethos where hard work and good citizenship was actively encouraged, not just by the staff but by the other kids too. Both my husband and I went to State Schools so we were more than happy to send our 6 kids to State Schools but the rot is so deep now, we felt forced to treat the youngest differently which we really struggled with. The other 5 went to the Church School but they changed the catchment area.

DaisyAnne Mon 19-Sep-22 19:50:12

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

But we do have independent schools; it isn't the first problem. What the government wants to do with schools, their ideology for all state spending, is of first importance. While people fiddle with a tiny percentage of private schools - and they won't succeed under the Tories - this government will continue its policy of soft privatisation. You have to decide what you want. Good, free education available for all, or education based on income, in every case.

I agree there would be no surprise if workhouses were back on the agenda. You only need to listen to some of their supporters on GN. But what, meanwhile, do we do about the state schools? They are not businesses, but schools pay the same as a business for energy. Where will that come from? Truss has said they will "look at it". What does that mean?

The poorer schools get, and they have been getting poorer continuously under this government, the harder it becomes to do any teaching. If children and teachers are cold, if they are short-staffed (or even more short-staffed) or if they have nothing to teach with, they will not learn as well as those that do have these things; or certainly not as easily. Subjects such as STEM subjects, so important for the future, will eventually become too expensive to run. Running a science lab is expensive, and teaching computing takes power.

I am sure we will hear all the usual excuses. However, remember this has been happening for 12 years. We know because they told us, that the government wants to stop as much spending in the state sector as they can. Hopefully, they will have little time. However, they will have enough to do a great deal of damage if the people do not make their opinions clear.

M0nica Mon 19-Sep-22 19:56:45

Oh, for heavens sake. Go and lie down with cold flannels on your fevered brows.

State schools are far far better now than they were in the 1980s, better funded, better equipped and even back in the 70s I was part of a PTA which was always fundraising for extras for the school my children attended.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 19-Sep-22 20:04:51

M0nica the voice of reason, thank you.

Callistemon21 Mon 19-Sep-22 20:23:31

M0nica

Oh, for heavens sake. Go and lie down with cold flannels on your fevered brows.

State schools are far far better now than they were in the 1980s, better funded, better equipped and even back in the 70s I was part of a PTA which was always fundraising for extras for the school my children attended.

😁

even back in the 70s I was part of a PTA which was always fundraising for extras

Yes, in the days of jumble sales!!
I remember my BF was a primary school teacher and we always ran the cake stall together.

Now the Summer Fair and Christmas Fair at the DGC's schools are more sophisticated affairs with stalls of local produce and crafts. And a secondhand uniform rail.

Callistemon21 Mon 19-Sep-22 20:28:51

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources

I don't understand. Perhaps you could explain more fully how independent schools cause state schools to be deprived of resources?

M0nica Mon 19-Sep-22 20:32:50

Jumble sales, school fetes, A huge firework display with other schools, with sparklers and a barbercue, dances, Uniform sales and heaven knows what else.

We bought all kinds of equipment for the school.

Come to that I can remember my secondary school in the 1950s doing exactly the same kind of thing - all state schools. I expect my primary schools did as well, but I never stayed long enough in any of them to find out.

Callistemon21 Mon 19-Sep-22 20:36:45

I don't remember any parental involvement at my High School apart from Speech Days.

GagaJo Mon 19-Sep-22 20:44:05

Callistemon21

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources

I don't understand. Perhaps you could explain more fully how independent schools cause state schools to be deprived of resources?

Because if there were no independent schools, and all children went to state schools, the upper-middle classes, the upper classes and the elite would be forced to ensure state schools were properly funded, to ensure their own children got a good education.

As it stands at the moment, they don't care what happens to working-class children. Because it doesn't affect their children at all. Same as the NHS.

icanhandthemback Mon 19-Sep-22 20:52:11

Because if there were no independent schools, and all children went to state schools, the upper-middle classes, the upper classes and the elite would be forced to ensure state schools were properly funded, to ensure their own children got a good education.

Or home school because, quite frankly, that was my second option to an Independent school which I seriously considered. The only reason I didn't is because I wanted him to have the social side of education too.

loopyloo Mon 19-Sep-22 21:03:18

Yes and in the 1950s we had 50 in a primary school class and the food was dreadful .

M0nica Mon 19-Sep-22 21:03:26

The number of people in the upper middle classes, upper classes and elite is so small it would have no affect at all on state schools, evened out probably only be one or two previously privately educated children per school.

What would happen is what happens now, the best state schools are in the areas where the most expensive housing is and where parents do their best to buy into it.

Back in the 1980s, the state school head in my town who was most vociferous in his objection to the local grammar school was the head of a comprehensive school where housing in the catchment area was so expensive he had a school full of grammar school able children without any of them needing to take the 11+. His schools exam successes were exceptional.

Take any big town with three or more secondary schools and the one that is most successful in the rankings will be situated in the area of the town that has the most expensive housing.

DaisyAnne Mon 19-Sep-22 21:39:13

M0nica

Oh, for heavens sake. Go and lie down with cold flannels on your fevered brows.

State schools are far far better now than they were in the 1980s, better funded, better equipped and even back in the 70s I was part of a PTA which was always fundraising for extras for the school my children attended.

Just out of interest do you have children at school now?

DaisyAnne Mon 19-Sep-22 21:41:25

Callistemon21

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources

I don't understand. Perhaps you could explain more fully how independent schools cause state schools to be deprived of resources?

It's just a favoured line Callistemon. I am beginning to think GN has turned into Ground Hog Day.

welbeck Mon 19-Sep-22 21:46:10

i think school places should be decided by lottery, esp the church ones.
obviously parents would pick which barrels they wanted child's name put into.

Mollygo Mon 19-Sep-22 21:54:14

Buy a brick? My in-laws were expected to ‘buy a brick’ to help build a new building at the school where my sister in law went. One DD went to the same school years later and we had to ‘buy a more expensive brick’ to refurbish the school.
Schools in poorer areas are still better off than the first school I taught in. I’m not saying things couldn’t improve, because I think they should.
M0nica makes a good point about what would happen if there were no private schools. Anyone who knows anything about school admissions knows that the parents who can afford it will even move house to send their children to the most successful schools.

M0nica Mon 19-Sep-22 21:56:11

The problem with that, is that it may leave some children with very difficult long journeys in and around towns to get to school, and some parents would not be able to afford them.

I think you need to live 3 miles from a school to get free transport and in a city a three mile walk can take you through unsafe areas, especially after dark.

welbeck Mon 19-Sep-22 22:02:06

but that happens anyway, as it is.
i just think having a blind dip for over subscribed schools would be fairer.
there would have to be some kind of second/third round for sweeping up those not picked for first choices.
not sure i've explained what i mean. bit tired.
just dislike all the sharp elbowing by m/c parents, and playing the system, esp re church schools.

Callistemon21 Mon 19-Sep-22 22:06:46

GagaJo

Callistemon21

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources

I don't understand. Perhaps you could explain more fully how independent schools cause state schools to be deprived of resources?

Because if there were no independent schools, and all children went to state schools, the upper-middle classes, the upper classes and the elite would be forced to ensure state schools were properly funded, to ensure their own children got a good education.

As it stands at the moment, they don't care what happens to working-class children. Because it doesn't affect their children at all. Same as the NHS.

It's non-sequitur.

There have always been independent schools.
State schools should be properly funded. Full stop.

DaisyAnne Mon 19-Sep-22 22:08:54

GagaJo

Callistemon21

GagaJo

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources.

But yes. Nothing would surprise me. The Tories won't be happy until the poor are back in the workhouses.

If we had no independent schools, there'd be no issue. There would be no top loaded, imbalance of resources

I don't understand. Perhaps you could explain more fully how independent schools cause state schools to be deprived of resources?

Because if there were no independent schools, and all children went to state schools, the upper-middle classes, the upper classes and the elite would be forced to ensure state schools were properly funded, to ensure their own children got a good education.

As it stands at the moment, they don't care what happens to working-class children. Because it doesn't affect their children at all. Same as the NHS.

Ground Hog Day for the extreme left.