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Today’s Mini Budget.

(278 Posts)
Urmstongran Fri 23-Sep-22 10:03:22

What do we think of Kwarteng’s statement?

Ailidh Fri 23-Sep-22 10:18:01

I'm not convinced that what I learn is called Trickledown Economics is going to help those most in need.

While on the one hand, I welcome, mildly, the proposed reduction in Basic Income Tax, I don't understand what is not going to be paid for by that reduction.

I'd be really grateful if Honourable Members could explain to me what the income from Income Tax funds.
Preferably without telling me that I'm a moron for not knowing.
I'd always assumed it paid for hospitals and schools etc but I suspect I may be incorrect.

Oopsadaisy1 Fri 23-Sep-22 10:21:31

It’s a bit like thinking that Road Tax on our cars pays towards the roads. I think once upon a time in a land far far away, it probably did.

I think it all gets thrown into the one pot.

MaizieD Fri 23-Sep-22 10:36:25

I'd be really grateful if Honourable Members could explain to me what the income from Income Tax funds.
Preferably without telling me that I'm a moron for not knowing.
I'd always assumed it paid for hospitals and schools etc but I suspect I may be incorrect.

Income tax doesn't fund anything. As I, and a few others on this forum who have done the reading, keep telling you all.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/07/25/the-treasury-admit-that-tax-does-not-fund-government-spending-as-modern-monetary-theory-suggests/

www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/sites/bartlett_public_purpose/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

gimms.org.uk/2019/02/10/uk-government-spending-taxation-bank-lending/

MaizieD Fri 23-Sep-22 10:47:26

Strangely enough, ;'fiscal stimulus' (implying lots of deficit spending) 'could' be the right way to go to stimulate the economy, but unfortunately as the tax cuts all favour the wealthy and businesses they won't benefit the poorer people (who are in the majority) who actually need more money, and would spend it into the domestic economy, thus stimulating it.

Alidh is absolutely correct. Trickle down doesn't work. Has never worked.

Dinahmo Fri 23-Sep-22 10:52:51

The reduction in the Basic Rate to 19% doesn't help the poorest people because there are thousands whose income is less than the personal allowance.

The abolition of the 45% rate band is only going to make the rich richer. They will not be working any harder than they already do. I remember when a certain William Rees Mogg, after Thatcher reduced the highest rate to 60%, wrote in the Times (I paraphrase) Thank you. I and my friends won't be working harder than we do now - we'll just trouser the extra money.

dolphindaisy Fri 23-Sep-22 11:18:54

I didn't see the Chancellor's speech but I did catch the reply from Rachael Reeves, I thought she was brilliant, If only she was Chancellor - hopefully one day she will be.

MayBee70 Fri 23-Sep-22 12:24:04

I think they know they’re going to lose the next election. So they’re going to leave this country in such a financial mess that Labour will struggle to turn in round in the 5 years they’ll have. But are currently enabling their rich donors to make plenty of money that they will then squirrel away into tax havens so they can give the party lots of money for the following election. Because it’s all about power. Not what you do with it when you have it and certainly not with a view to helping the workers of this country, or the sick and disabled.

Sweetpeasue Fri 23-Sep-22 12:35:40

Bit of a knee-jerk reaction from me but astounded, absolutely astounded at the change in income tax.
I too do not believe the trickle down theory. Wow, just wow.

Boz Fri 23-Sep-22 12:39:04

MayBee70

I think they know they’re going to lose the next election. So they’re going to leave this country in such a financial mess that Labour will struggle to turn in round in the 5 years they’ll have. But are currently enabling their rich donors to make plenty of money that they will then squirrel away into tax havens so they can give the party lots of money for the following election. Because it’s all about power. Not what you do with it when you have it and certainly not with a view to helping the workers of this country, or the sick and disabled.

These were my thoughts precisely. A long term plan to scupper Labour.

DaisyAnne Fri 23-Sep-22 13:00:29

Boz

MayBee70

I think they know they’re going to lose the next election. So they’re going to leave this country in such a financial mess that Labour will struggle to turn in round in the 5 years they’ll have. But are currently enabling their rich donors to make plenty of money that they will then squirrel away into tax havens so they can give the party lots of money for the following election. Because it’s all about power. Not what you do with it when you have it and certainly not with a view to helping the workers of this country, or the sick and disabled.

These were my thoughts precisely. A long term plan to scupper Labour.

A short-term plan, I think Boz. Trickle down looks superficially good to enough people for a couple of years and then comes back to bite us.

Aveline Fri 23-Sep-22 13:04:34

I thought that 'trickle down' theory had already been shown not to work.
I'm expecting an election sooner rather than later. 😑

DaisyAnne Fri 23-Sep-22 13:10:10

Goodness, it's a long time since I have heard the name of Antony Barber called up.

So, we can expect something like the Barber Boom ... and bust. Great.

Sweetpeasue Fri 23-Sep-22 13:13:40

Don't believe the trickle down theory works for one second. Perhaps it would do if the rich didn't hang on to it when the country's economy picked up. Many poor buggers will suffer and either won't be around or never pick themselves up by the time it's 'trickled down'.
I'm not able to defend my position as so many more are on this thread who are more genned up politically. But that's my opinion and I, and I'm sure there are so many others, don't come here because of that.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 23-Sep-22 13:14:02

The markets are not convinced neither are economists.

There will be no boom, just bust.

growstuff Fri 23-Sep-22 13:14:32

I won't gain anything from tax cuts because I don't have income above the threshold.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 23-Sep-22 13:17:11

Jo Maugham

Liz Truss' budget means that those earning a million a year will have £54,400 extra in their pockets after tax and NICs. For those earning £25,000, the equivalent figure is about £280.

Fleurpepper Fri 23-Sep-22 13:17:37

MayBee70

I think they know they’re going to lose the next election. So they’re going to leave this country in such a financial mess that Labour will struggle to turn in round in the 5 years they’ll have. But are currently enabling their rich donors to make plenty of money that they will then squirrel away into tax havens so they can give the party lots of money for the following election. Because it’s all about power. Not what you do with it when you have it and certainly not with a view to helping the workers of this country, or the sick and disabled.

Sadly, I think you are spot on here.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 23-Sep-22 13:23:23

The markets are simply not convinced that the government will be able to repay its debt.

The risk is too high.

varian Fri 23-Sep-22 13:29:20

Sterling has tumbled by 2 cents to 37-year low

www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/sep/23/uk-consumer-confidence-economy-recession-mini-budget-tax-cuts-kwasi-kwarteng-business-live

Dinahmo Fri 23-Sep-22 13:30:57

An early election would be great but I don't see how that can happen. It will be interesting to see the result of the by-election following the recent resignation of Rosie Cooper, MP for west Lancashire. She had am 8000 majority in 2019.

It will also be interesting to see tomorrow's headlines in the red tops. My guess is that they will all be positive.

dragonfly46 Fri 23-Sep-22 13:31:27

It is going to make my DC much better off but then they were pretty well off to start with compared to most people in this country.
I worry that there are going to be cuts where we need money most eg social care and NHS.

Shinamae Fri 23-Sep-22 13:32:05

The rich get richer……..😡

Ilovecheese Fri 23-Sep-22 13:32:59

Have I got this right?
When interest rates were very low the Conservatives thought borrowing was a bad thing for the Government to do, but now that interest rates are going up it is a good thing for Government to do?

DaisyAnne Fri 23-Sep-22 13:41:54

Just heard Sir Rocco Forte say "never have I heard a new government hit the ground running like this." How can the BBC ask a man who thinks of democracy in this way, what his opinion is?

Denmark may be doing okay but there is certainly something rotten in our state.