Social Capitalism according to Gove and which party really does represent the UK?

The media give far too much weight to the extreme ends of the political spectrum, the centre ground is far more important.
We saw this week a supposedly right wing Tory party reject the new leaders policies.

How Gove thinks charities and volunteers are going to help economic growth I have no idea, does he.

I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about what is right or left wing. It is not so much a spectrum as a compass, and you can see where you fit by taking this quiz (The Political Compass Test). Basically, there are two dimensions - the economic and the social control, and people can be anywhere on the axes. This is why extremes are similar - Stalin and Hitler may have been Left and Right respectively, but they were both in favour of extreme social control and consequently similar in their regimes. The economic dimension is more about Big and Small state (although state interference/provision is a factor in economics too).

It's an interesting test, and you even get a certificate when you've completed it - I've posted it before.

This is my certificate.

How Gove thinks charities and volunteers are going to help economic growth I have no idea, does he.

Wasn't that Cameron's Big Idea all those years ago?

I can see a glimmer of the concept that I believe DaisyAnne favours, that of far more community involvement in making decisions and implementing them, but I don't think it's based on expecting charities and volunteers to fill the yawning gaps left by cutting public expenditure in services to ensure the health and wellbeing of the population. There is always a place for charities and volunteers, but not as a second welfare state.

Katie59

The media give far too much weight to the extreme ends of the political spectrum, the centre ground is far more important.
We saw this week a supposedly right wing Tory party reject the new leaders policies.

How Gove thinks charities and volunteers are going to help economic growth I have no idea, does he.

I seriously doubt he does but, with Mr Gove, I always wonder what he is up to On this occasion, who he was trying to appeal to.

Keir Starmer seems to have recognised that many people will be to the left economically - wanting natural monopolies run as a GB company, for example. He also seems to realise they are more socially to the right. A small example would be the singing of God Save the King. It will be interesting to see where he takes this.

Some of the language used by the far-left, like that of the far-right, is very anachronistic and doesn't go down well with the general public. In the end, the activists, on their own, cannot get a majority.

The trouble with charities and volunteers is that there is little regulation, so a lot can come down to whichever cause is fashionable, or can attract the most sympathy. Anything to do with children and animals gets popular support, whereas little-known diseases/conditions and things like prison reform don't.

We need proper polices with regulated expenditure, not a choice between large charities with PR teams on huge salaries and locally-run cake stalls and raffles. (Nothing wrong with either, but neither can provide support in lieu of guaranteed and regular income.) Some causes need reliable long-term assistance so that they can plan ahead (eg for research), and this needs to come from the government, not rely on the vagaries of fund-raising and fashions in compassion.

We've seen on here that there are different levels of compassion when it comes to things like benefits, and that often there is a lot of rank hypocrisy surrounding attitudes. People in need should have access to objective funding, not hand-outs from those who consider them worthy of crumbs from the rich woman's table.

Doodledog

I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about what is right or left wing. It is not so much a spectrum as a compass, and you can see where you fit by taking this quiz (The Political Compass Test). Basically, there are two dimensions - the economic and the social control, and people can be anywhere on the axes. This is why extremes are similar - Stalin and Hitler may have been Left and Right respectively, but they were both in favour of extreme social control and consequently similar in their regimes. The economic dimension is more about Big and Small state (although state interference/provision is a factor in economics too).

It's an interesting test, and you even get a certificate when you've completed it - I've posted it before.

I don't think the vast majority do see themselves as left or right though Doodledog. It is the activists and the Party hierarchy who want to divide them in that way.

I think that most people don't see themselves as 'left' or 'right' primarily because they have a tribal allegiance to a party, but also because both terms have acquired pejorative undertones and are used as insults.

I agree. As with most things we probably see ourselves as moderate/centre, and those who disagree or differ in some way are one side or the other of that. A bit like rich and poor or whatever.

Katie59 I wonder whether the Conservative MPs who are up in arms about the "mini budget" - and in particular the proposed abolition of the 45p tax rate - are particularly concerned about issues of poverty and inequality. They want to hold on to their jobs, and the unpopularity of this very unjust and dangerous proposal has been across the political spectrum. People who have been quite content to see low paid workers and vulnerable people struggle with ordinary living costs, are now outraged when these deprivations are to be visited on them.

The terms left and right wing are, in my view, a useful way of identifying the sort of aims and values underlying various parties and groups. I would say that it is only people who feel no allegiance to any particular grouping or set of values that can describe themselves as neither left nor right wing.

The term "moderate" is often used by people who are broadly in favour of the economic and social status quo and who don't feel strongly enough about any issue to want radical change. However, my feeling is that if everybody had been agreeable and unwilling to rock the boat, we would never have had an NHS, a pension scheme, health and safety regulations, discrimination laws, etc, etc, etc.

Doodledog
There's no Neither Agree nor Disagree option for Fence Sitters!

Callistemon21

Doodledog
There's no Neither Agree nor Disagree option for Fence Sitters!

And rightly so ;)

that was supposed to be a wink smiley

Strangely enough, I've always regarded myself as left of centre with some views outside the mainstream. Apparently not ...

It would appear I'm definitely an enemy of the state!

Doodledog

Callistemon21

Doodledog
There's no Neither Agree nor Disagree option for Fence Sitters!

And rightly so ;)

?
Yes, but sitting on the fence gives a good view so that you can jump any which way and change the government.
If it wasn't for floating voters you'd be stuck with this lot for ever.

Eloethan

Katie59 I wonder whether the Conservative MPs who are up in arms about the "mini budget" - and in particular the proposed abolition of the 45p tax rate - are particularly concerned about issues of poverty and inequality. They want to hold on to their jobs, and the unpopularity of this very unjust and dangerous proposal has been across the political spectrum. People who have been quite content to see low paid workers and vulnerable people struggle with ordinary living costs, are now outraged when these deprivations are to be visited on them.

The terms left and right wing are, in my view, a useful way of identifying the sort of aims and values underlying various parties and groups. I would say that it is only people who feel no allegiance to any particular grouping or set of values that can describe themselves as neither left nor right wing.

The term "moderate" is often used by people who are broadly in favour of the economic and social status quo and who don't feel strongly enough about any issue to want radical change. However, my feeling is that if everybody had been agreeable and unwilling to rock the boat, we would never have had an NHS, a pension scheme, health and safety regulations, discrimination laws, etc, etc, etc.

Yes

Simon Jenkins in the Guardian has an article today suggesting that Gove become caretaker PM. It wouldn't surprise me if Gove thinks the same way.

Well who knew!

Crowd sourcing is the modern form of charity. But the issue with it is that it isn’t available to everyone and it is very hit and miss. That is true of all charities.

The country recognised in the 30s that the only way to provide a real and dependable support system that operates as fairly as possible is that provided by the state.

eleothan is right when she says that change is nearly always brought about by struggle or war and radical policies.

Goves ideal of social capitalism reminds me of England in them films, an ideal that is both charming but simply not rooted in real life.

Them!?

Thanks Doodledog- interesting quiz, and interesting seeing others results. I do agree that defiance is sometimes the only way to challenge the ( unfair) status quo.

LauraNorderr

Well who knew!

Welcome to the Dark Side LauraNorder

I'm not savvy enough to reproduce a certificate on here, but I'm in much the same position as growstuff, just a wee bit higher up.

I'm not surprised.