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A boost for Brexit?

(204 Posts)
Urmstongran Tue 22-Nov-22 07:47:25

“Starmer: UK must wean itself off migrant labour
Days of low pay and dependence on foreign workers are over, Labour leader to insist”

BEN RILEY-SMITHPolitical Editor (in the Telegraph today).

BRITAIN must end its economic dependence on immigration, Sir Keir Starmer will say today as he toughens the Labour Party’s stance in a speech to business leaders.

In a significant intervention, Sir Keir will tell the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) conference that the days of “low pay and cheap labour” are over.

The speech will be seen as an attempt to quash any suggestion that the Labour leader would emulate his predecessor Tony Blair’s looser approach to immigration if he reaches No 10.

Sir Keir is trying to convince voters that he is reconciled to Britain’s future outside of the European Union as he targets winning back former Labour Red Wall seats at the next election which voted en masse for Brexit.”

And yesterday when Sunak addressed the CBI conference he reiterated that the UK would not be seeking a Switzerland type deal, aligning the UK more with Brussels.

Finally, to me, it seems hopeful that a more robust Brexit will be delivered. It’s been on the back burner for six years and in my opinion it’s time to crack on with getting rid of red tape that doesn’t need to apply to us. This does not mean lowering standards, just simplifying processes and making the UK more competitive and lean.

What do you think about what Starmer & Sunak are saying?

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Nov-22 08:30:55

I have never agreed with low paid cheap labour anyone in employment should not have to rely on a top-up from the Government of the day to supplement their income.

Equal emphasis on skills in senior schools just not pushing all into University would also be an advancement in my opinion and go towards easing the UK’s skill shortage.

More recognition and pay for what are deemed low skill but vital jobs would also help, along with affordable childcare for the under fives.

yggdrasil Tue 22-Nov-22 08:48:05

So the Labour party proves again it has been taken over by Starmer who is even more to the right than Blair.
There is no opposition in Parliament any more sad

Katie59 Tue 22-Nov-22 08:51:25

If we are to do all the low skilled work with UK workers we have got to be much more efficient how we direct the Labour force.
If low skilled work it defined as training that lasts a week or so it includes, cleaners, care workers, food processing, hotels, catering and many others.
Starmer did not say how he was going to redirect the workforce, it would probably need some kind of compulsion to achieve it.

Urmstongran Tue 22-Nov-22 08:58:07

There is not much difference now between the Tories & Labour on some issues, I agree yggdrasil. The Tories have even recently been dubbed “Blue Labour” by some columnists. I think Starmer hopes to regain the Red Wall. With these proposals he might just do it!

MaizieD Tue 22-Nov-22 09:18:35

I'm sure that the CBI, which appears to be crying out for more workers, will be deeply unimpressed by Sunak refusing to look at all ways to attract more.

Starmer is saying that business cannot go on paying low wages, which has nothing to do with Brexit at all. It's a socialist 'thing': a weird notion that all workers should be fairly paid.

How any of this can be interpreted as a 'boost for Brexit' is a mystery to me, but I suppose the Telegraph has to keep its readers happy.

The 'red wall' voters are already turning back to Labour, Ug.

Katie59 Tue 22-Nov-22 09:32:52

“We cannot go on paying low wages”

Someone is always going to be on the lowest wages, even if the rates are doubled, when rates go up money has got to be found for those pay rates. Pay differentials are going to be an issue as well skilled workers will want to maintain those,

MaizieD Tue 22-Nov-22 09:37:52

Katie59

“We cannot go on paying low wages”

Someone is always going to be on the lowest wages, even if the rates are doubled, when rates go up money has got to be found for those pay rates. Pay differentials are going to be an issue as well skilled workers will want to maintain those,

Oh, FGS, Katie59. There's a difference between 'lowest wages' and wages too low to exist on.

Urmstongran Tue 22-Nov-22 09:49:27

I totally agree MaizieD about paying better wages for workers. Who kept the country going most during Covid? Supermarket workers and not very well paid delivery drivers I think. But the CBI just want quick fixes. More immigration, low wages, profits maintained, shareholders happy. Bosses like the idea, unsurprisingly. No talk of apprenticeships these days, trading up the young, passing on skills. All this takes time, effort and money. Quick fixes are always very popular with some and in my opinion it’s time we turned this around. It was (truly) one of the main reasons I voted for Brexit. There was too much incoming, cheaper labour rather than putting up the wages for our own youth - not all of which will be doctors and accountants, or off to Europe to learn another language in a gap year to further their education. These young ones will become plumbers, drive a van for a company, work in retail. The UK is an expensive place to live, rents or mortgages are high here and young people need a salary commensurate with our cost of living. Workers coming over from Europe, house sharing and sending money home at a good exchange rate was never a level playing field but the bosses loved it! It kept wages down as ‘take it or leave it, if you won’t do it someone will’. That’s morally the wrong attitude and I hated the whole rotten construct.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Nov-22 10:18:53

Katie59

“We cannot go on paying low wages”

Someone is always going to be on the lowest wages, even if the rates are doubled, when rates go up money has got to be found for those pay rates. Pay differentials are going to be an issue as well skilled workers will want to maintain those,

I often post that I am an employer, and for what it’s worth employers get what they pay for

If you pay a wage that can be lived on , provide a safe and congenial workplace and address any issues immediately they arise then you will have a happy productive workforce.

Importing cheap labour should never have been an option.

Urmstongran Tue 22-Nov-22 10:35:31

I’ve always liked your take on this subject GG13. No surprise that your employees stick around.
😊

I’ve just listened to Starmer at the CBI conference. I could vote Labour now (maybe). I do have a real problem with Lammy but he might get moved yet in a reshuffle.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Nov-22 10:42:06

Urmstongran

I’ve always liked your take on this subject GG13. No surprise that your employees stick around.
😊

I’ve just listened to Starmer at the CBI conference. I could vote Labour now (maybe). I do have a real problem with Lammy but he might get moved yet in a reshuffle.

It’s definitely not for my tea and coffee making skills 🤣

Katie59 Tue 22-Nov-22 10:45:11

The customers love low wages because services cost less, any industry is very competitive so bosses pay the lowest wages to stay in business. If the national wage was higher it’s customers who pay, where do they get he extra from?, don’t blame bosses, even if they do make profits they pay taxes

The one cost that is unavoidable and too expensive is rent, much better to lower rents for low paid workers, then wages don’t have to rise to improve living standards.

Grantanow Tue 22-Nov-22 10:49:19

But where are the UK workers to be trained for low and medium skill jobs? We have an ageing population and a lot more people out of the workforce due to long Covid and failure of the NHS to treat other serious conditions. The exodus of EU workers after Brexit was a disaster for the NHS, social care, hospitality and some maintenance work. Starmer's speech solves nothing and, like Brown's 'British jobs for British workers', is calculated to placate trade unions and anti-immigrant feeling amongst Northern former Labour voters. The short term impact of his anti-free movement policy and resistance to other than high skill immigration will add to the problems of many small and medium sized businesses which are already struggling with paperwork Brexit obstacles. He has put himself close to the Braverman approach.

Mamardoit Tue 22-Nov-22 10:53:53

GrannyGravy13

I have never agreed with low paid cheap labour anyone in employment should not have to rely on a top-up from the Government of the day to supplement their income.

Equal emphasis on skills in senior schools just not pushing all into University would also be an advancement in my opinion and go towards easing the UK’s skill shortage.

More recognition and pay for what are deemed low skill but vital jobs would also help, along with affordable childcare for the under fives.

Yes. Great post.

Ilovecheese Tue 22-Nov-22 10:55:14

One the one hand he did say that we could not go on relying on cheap labour, but then he said that he didn't want another situation like what happened with lorry drivers , so we would need more imported skills. The problem there is that if there is a surplus of labour then wages go down. The shortage of lorry drivers, while not much fun for the rest of us, was a very good thing for the lorry drivers who had their wages increased.

So does he want higher wages or does he want cheap imported labour? How can this be balanced? Is it even possible to balance?

I thought his speech, while it included some good points, did not reassure me that he actually cares about making a fairer society, in fact at one point he said something about not wanting any redistribution of wealth.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Nov-22 10:57:57

Katie59

The customers love low wages because services cost less, any industry is very competitive so bosses pay the lowest wages to stay in business. If the national wage was higher it’s customers who pay, where do they get he extra from?, don’t blame bosses, even if they do make profits they pay taxes

The one cost that is unavoidable and too expensive is rent, much better to lower rents for low paid workers, then wages don’t have to rise to improve living standards.

It is more than possible to be competitive in any business without reducing wages to the lowest denominator.

There are far too many that take the simplest solutions i.e. pay their staff as little as they can get away with as opposed to looking at their overall business plan/model.

It really isn’t rocket science.

Calendargirl Tue 22-Nov-22 11:01:28

No talk of apprenticeships these days.

I don’t agree, there are apprenticeships out there, but they are still seen as second class by many.

My GS is in the Upper V1 at the local Grammar school. He is not keen on university, the cost etc, and is thinking about apprenticeships. When asked at a meeting at school how many were interested in apprenticeships, only GS and one other person raised their hand.

University is seen as the option by the school. Anything else is looked down on and frankly, not encouraged.

Shinamae Tue 22-Nov-22 11:03:21

Carers are very poorly paid and always have been yet get barely a mention,it’s usually NHS,rail workers,postal workers our wages are appalling,minimum wage… and believe me being a carer in a care home is no picnic but funnily enough I love the job. We now are outnumbered by foreign workers as many English will not do the work for such poor pay. The Indians I work with are hard-working caring and reliable and I have no problem with them except their English is very very poor..

icanhandthemback Tue 22-Nov-22 11:12:11

University is seen as the option by the school. Anything else is looked down on and frankly, not encouraged.

That is particularly the case within the Private Sector of education. My son was encouraged to go to University by his school and other options were not on the table. The glorious "Uni experience" was sold to them and it had very little to do with the actual academic education. Now, I would not like to say that my son hasn't learned some great life skills whilst having fun, but I am concerned that he will be saddled with an awful lot of debt and unlikely to be earning the greatest salary with today's financial climate.

Urmstongran Tue 22-Nov-22 11:55:35

Keir Starmer said he made no apology for his viewpoint that short-termism in importing cheaper labour isn’t the answer for the long term growth needed or our economy. He mentioned shortages of staff in the NHS as an example. Bringing in staff from abroad rather than investing as a country in training our own workforce.

Bring back Bursaries for Nurses (I say!). Let’s train our own. We need them and this problem won’t go away.

As Keir Starmer said it needs addressing.
Good on him.

MaizieD Tue 22-Nov-22 13:48:02

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

The customers love low wages because services cost less, any industry is very competitive so bosses pay the lowest wages to stay in business. If the national wage was higher it’s customers who pay, where do they get he extra from?, don’t blame bosses, even if they do make profits they pay taxes

The one cost that is unavoidable and too expensive is rent, much better to lower rents for low paid workers, then wages don’t have to rise to improve living standards.

It is more than possible to be competitive in any business without reducing wages to the lowest denominator.

There are far too many that take the simplest solutions i.e. pay their staff as little as they can get away with as opposed to looking at their overall business plan/model.

It really isn’t rocket science.

Thanks for saying that, GG13.

I could quote Adam Smith again, but you might not like it.

Several trade unions are doing careful research on the levels of company profits and matching their wage demands to levels that are achievable by companies forgoing some of their profits rather than passing on the cost to the consumer.
When companies are using profits to pay inflated dividends to shareholders, inflated salaries to CEOs and for share buy backs in order to inflate the company's apparent 'value', then it seems perfectly reasonable for some of the profit bonanza to be passed to the workers who have enabled it.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 22-Nov-22 13:57:49

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

The customers love low wages because services cost less, any industry is very competitive so bosses pay the lowest wages to stay in business. If the national wage was higher it’s customers who pay, where do they get he extra from?, don’t blame bosses, even if they do make profits they pay taxes

The one cost that is unavoidable and too expensive is rent, much better to lower rents for low paid workers, then wages don’t have to rise to improve living standards.

It is more than possible to be competitive in any business without reducing wages to the lowest denominator.

There are far too many that take the simplest solutions i.e. pay their staff as little as they can get away with as opposed to looking at their overall business plan/model.

It really isn’t rocket science.

Thanks for saying that, GG13.

I could quote Adam Smith again, but you might not like it.

Several trade unions are doing careful research on the levels of company profits and matching their wage demands to levels that are achievable by companies forgoing some of their profits rather than passing on the cost to the consumer.
When companies are using profits to pay inflated dividends to shareholders, inflated salaries to CEOs and for share buy backs in order to inflate the company's apparent 'value', then it seems perfectly reasonable for some of the profit bonanza to be passed to the workers who have enabled it.

We agree on this one, some employers big and small need reminding that it’s their workforce that is the engine of the company and without an efficient well paid workforce the Company/Business will not be going anywhere.

Grantanow Tue 22-Nov-22 13:58:59

The solution to the unwillingness of school pupils to seek apprenticeships or otherwise pursue technical training is to reduce the number of university places by closing the worst performing universities and departments and closing courses which frankly attract the weakest entrants. The money saved could be redirected to further education colleges which have suffered from underfunding for years. It may also be worth reviewing whether making nursing a graduate profession has excluded a swathe of good candidates.

JenniferEccles Tue 22-Nov-22 14:05:43

As long as we have the ridiculous situation whereby those on benefits get more than they would if they were working, I fear we may have to rely on migrant workers to fill the low paid jobs.

I was astonished to read the other day that there are six million people claiming universal credit.
Six million! How on earth has the welfare state been allowed to mushroom to such an extent?

That’s the first job surely, to get people off benefits and out to work.
Obviously of course there are some who genuinely need help, but to the tune of six million?😮