The National Trust is under attack

They’ve discussed the National Trust on TRIP’s in the past but I didn’t really understand what was going on. It’s very close to Rory’s heart so I’d assume they’ll be discussing it this week. Why is this government destroying everything some of us hold dear?

(do they know what it means)

I find that anyone who asks that, are woke.

fancythat

*(do they know what it means) *

I find that anyone who asks that, are woke.

Sorry?

I don't know why people object so much to the story of the origins of the wealth of those who owned the grand properties and big tracts of land.

I've always enjoyed country house visiting for the beauty of their architecture, of the artefacts in them and the splendid grounds and gardens. But for many, many years I've always been conscious of the fact that it was all maintained by an army of poorly paid servants who could only earn in a year the sort of money that the wealthy would consider to be a bit of loose change. Their working conditions weren't always particularly good, either.

Adding the fact that much of the wealth was procured on the back of slavery (which is the bit that the 'Restore Trust' particularly dislike), doesn't detract from the aesthetic experience. It just adds an opportunity for reflection on the fact that the past was very far from a bed of roses for everyone.

Again, whatever has Farage to do with this? He wasn't even an MP! I've visited an NT property which contained a couple of carved statues representing black men in chains. There was an explanatory notice, quite apologetic, putting things in context and just outside the room where the statues were, so that people could avoid them if they wished. I think that was a perfectly reasonable compromise, not in the least extreme. Coloured people do visit these places - I saw a young mum with her little boy in the cafe - and I can easily imagine that such depictions of slavery might be found offensive. It's a question of good manners and consideration for others.

I am absolutely not on the side of 'Restore Trust, that rather murky and sinister organisation behind the protests.

BUT I am totally fed up with the NT and we visit their properties less and less. It is nothing to do with wokery, its the way they have dumbed down and emulsified their product - a bit like M&S. M&S are in a huge range of buildings, from warehouse parks to old building sin high streets, but once in the door, they are all the same.

I am fed up with being overwhelmed by NT branding whereever I go in and around their properties. The way that all the add ons - dressing up for children, somewhere to read etc etc, each house thinned down to just one story are identical in every house. We are members of the Historic Houses Association and love the sheer variety of their houses, their quirkiness and indivdiuality, all completely wiped from NT properties.

The NT is also becoming deeply undemocratic, under the guise of doing the opposite. For their election of Trustees, they have an 'approved list' they want you to vote for and to lure you into doing so, they give you the opportunity to vote for them all with just one vote.

This means that those who do not have the time or do not care can just vote for a group of people whose names they do not know, whose opinions they have not read, but all of them NT insiders. This should not be allowed. It enables the NT to stuff its board of trustees with HT approved insiders. It is the kind of thing you expect to find happening in countries like Russia and the post-war Eastern European states. It is a travesty of democraCY.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sorry - that should be in the photo thread - not sure how it ended up here. Gremlins.

The National Trust doesn't just own country houses, does it? It owns small dwellings associated with famous figures from the past and large tracts of countryside.

In fact, a staggering variety of properties:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Trust_properties_in_England

Just because its product in some areas has become bland and 'samey' doesn't mean that one should vote for the nutters who want to deny the less savoury aspect of Britain's past. Or does it?

Suppression of facts/denial of history.

Not an organisation I wish to belong to.

The best element of the National Trust’s work as far as I’m concerned is the conservation work, upkeep and improvement of the land it owns. Enabling access to the countryside for the public is so important. I think all my visits this year have been to beaches, parks and gardens - they do a fantastic job in duplicating rare species plants and trees to conserve varieties. I’ve definitely paid for my membership in carpark fees saved.

If the wealth wasn’t there then the artists and artisans would have no one to pay them and we would have lost wonderful things. I don’t feel offended by past slavery . It happened and it was horrible but I feel outraged by present day slavery- young men and women trafficked for cannabis farms or prostitution .

MaizieD

The National Trust doesn't just own country houses, does it? It owns small dwellings associated with famous figures from the past and large tracts of countryside.

In fact, a staggering variety of properties:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Trust_properties_in_England

Just because its product in some areas has become bland and 'samey' doesn't mean that one should vote for the nutters who want to deny the less savoury aspect of Britain's past. Or does it?

Do you mean people who disagree with you, and others on here. Slavery of black people does not exist in this country, no African heritage person alive today, unless living in some parts of Africa, suffer slavery. Ho w many of you admire Roman ruins, and Anglo saxon burials, those invaders who enslaved the inhabitants of these islands people, took them into slavery, sold them on the continent to Arab and African traders. Your sense of history seems to be , and the NT, obsessed with only one aspect of that terrible part of most countries history. How many holiday in Portugal,do you take note of their instigation of the European slave trade. Why are you concerned that a black parent wouldn't want their children to know ,,the past history of some of their possible ancestors. Do those who suffered the holocaust turnaway. I would like history to be truthful, about every aspect, not just the one that is in vogue to suit a minority.

Freya5

MaizieD

The National Trust doesn't just own country houses, does it? It owns small dwellings associated with famous figures from the past and large tracts of countryside.

In fact, a staggering variety of properties:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Trust_properties_in_England

Just because its product in some areas has become bland and 'samey' doesn't mean that one should vote for the nutters who want to deny the less savoury aspect of Britain's past. Or does it?

Do you mean people who disagree with you, and others on here. Slavery of black people does not exist in this country, no African heritage person alive today, unless living in some parts of Africa, suffer slavery. Ho w many of you admire Roman ruins, and Anglo saxon burials, those invaders who enslaved the inhabitants of these islands people, took them into slavery, sold them on the continent to Arab and African traders. Your sense of history seems to be , and the NT, obsessed with only one aspect of that terrible part of most countries history. How many holiday in Portugal,do you take note of their instigation of the European slave trade. Why are you concerned that a black parent wouldn't want their children to know ,,the past history of some of their possible ancestors. Do those who suffered the holocaust turnaway. I would like history to be truthful, about every aspect, not just the one that is in vogue to suit a minority.

I really don't know WTF you are talking about, Freya.

I've explained how I feel about those grand old country houses, for long before the slavery aspect came to the fore.

I didn't say anything about black parents not wanting to know about the past history of some of their ancestors. I have both slave and white ancestry and I know quite a lot about it...

I think that the people who want to cut out part of the grand houses' history are nutters.

We visit a lot of NT houses, one of the questions we ask is where did the money come from, sometimes it’s obviously directly from slavery, others indirectly. I would say that 80% of the wealth came from exploitation or forced labour.

The biggest crime of all was parliament paying compensation to its own members whose families owned slaves, some of the records have been published more have been successfully hidden or withheld. Each house should now be open just where the money came from to build it, if that embarrasses the aristocracy or indeed polititians today that’s tough.

Of the houses, some have architectural merit and did provide employment for the builders but the money was largely frittered away on high living, a lot fell into disrepair and were demolished. I can think of a few that should be demolished now.

One of the largest landowners in the United Kingdom, the Trust owns almost 250,000 hectares (620,000 acres; 2,500 km2; 970 sq mi) of land and 780 miles (1,260 km) of coast. Its properties include more than 500 historic houses, castles, archaeological and industrial monuments, gardens, parks, and nature reserves

It owns far more than I realised,

I did post a link to the list of NT properties earlier

This thread isn't about slavery, it is about an organisation that hides the names of its organisers and the source of its funding from even its supporters, who wish to take over the national Trust and bend it to represent its ultra right wing view of the world.

Unfortunately the NT has responded in a way that is undemocratic and deeply unfair in response.

I have been very critical of how the NT has seen itself as greater than the sum of its parts, for some years now, but that does not mean that I in any way support the group trying to become right wing fifth columnists within the organisation and I am with Whitewave when she says that all members should get their voting papers out, or go online and do so, and make thetime to read and choose the people you support and do not just vote for the NT stooges on the Quick Vote list

It's the slavery aspect that the right wing group are objecting to, MOnica.

Did anyone say that you had to vote for the NT choices ?🤔

M0nica

This thread isn't about slavery, it is about an organisation that hides the names of its organisers and the source of its funding from even its supporters, who wish to take over the national Trust and bend it to represent its ultra right wing view of the world.

Unfortunately the NT has responded in a way that is undemocratic and deeply unfair in response.

I have been very critical of how the NT has seen itself as greater than the sum of its parts, for some years now, but that does not mean that I in any way support the group trying to become right wing fifth columnists within the organisation and I am with Whitewave when she says that all members should get their voting papers out, or go online and do so, and make thetime to read and choose the people you support and do not just vote for the NT stooges on the Quick Vote list

I’d rather vote for a National Trust stooge than a right wing nutter though. It behoves all members to find out for themselves the background and hobbyhorses of the candidates before they vote.

I have a number of dislikes and concerns about the National Trust, primarily with the way it limits access to public land and assets via parking charges and membership fees.

Despite that, I would strongly urge NT members to vote against Reform Trust candidates.

The NT is a conservation (of the environment, built and natural) and history charity, with a responsibility to deliver against its aims in both areas. The Reform Trust - with support from the culture war creators in the Tory party - wanting only sanitised history is both ludicrous and offensive, as are its recent objections to the NT commenting on Sunak’s proposals and comments on the environmental agenda.

Quick lists are common, and provided that ahead of opting to vote that way, members can see what individual proposed Trustees believe, I think they are fine.

It seems to me that if you care about the NT's continued existence in its current manifestation then you should select at least some of their "stooges".

After the demutualisation and flotation of the building societies organisations such as the Co-op came under attack by sharks who wanted to take advantage of the Co-op's assets. At the same time, The Wine Society, of which I am a member, also came under attack. Luckily the membership fought off the predators and the Wine Society remains a mutual.

I haven't been to an NT property for a long time but I cannot believe that they are making each house identical. We first joined when we decided to holiday in England and the annual fee was £10 each. We recovered our subscription in a week. This was back in the 70s. I also remember going to a property that had been built on the proceeds of the sugar trade and this was clearly pointed out 40 odd years ago.

I see absolutely no reason why the cafes shouldn't all have similar decor and the shops have similar stock. If children are able to dress up and there is story telling - why not? At least it make visiting a stately home more interesting and may set the seeds for a lifelong interest. Who knows?

If they are NT stooges, then it up to the members to become more active. It is complacency that allows extremists to enter, become active and ruin things. Perhaps this will be a wake up call.

I shall not vote for any right wing nutters. I think it's important to draw attention to the slavery-funded estates but I want the NT to give absolute priority to conserving the properties and that includes fully rebuilding Clandon House after the fire as it did Uppark after the fire there.