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Bring Shamima Begum Home!

(275 Posts)
Anniel Mon 26-Feb-24 15:22:19

Yesterday I saw a film of the women and their children in a camp in Syria. Apart from two British women there were Canadians, Germans and an Australian woman. It seemed many were too scared to show their faces.
The film horrified me. Their little children are innocent. They have nothing. Then today in The Spectator I read an article which claimed we had no right constitutionally to strip Ms Begum of her citizenship and looking at a camp full of non Syrians living in appalling conditions I have changed my mind. These women all made a dreadful mistake but they are human and if an old traditionalist like William Rees Mog can speak up on Ms Begum’s plight, I realised I have felt uncomfortable purely as a woman that we should bring her home and deal with her. Do any other Grans feel uneasy on behalf of these women? Can she never be forgiven?

BlueBelle Mon 26-Feb-24 15:25:07

There is another thread on this already Annie and as I ve already said I believe she should be here,, she was young impressionable made a big mistake but she should be our problem no one else’s

Oreo Mon 26-Feb-24 15:29:04

I do feel uneasy about it tbh, tho we don’t know the reasons in her particular case why she has been turned down at appeal.
There are many European and Australian and Canadian women and their children being held in tented areas in Syria, it seems wrong to me.We know that many men from those countries joined IS and were either killed or returned home, some jailed and some not.Looks like the women and children are paying a heavier price than the men.

PuddyCat Mon 26-Feb-24 15:30:50

Do any other Grans feel uneasy on behalf of these women? No. Their children yes.
Can she never be forgiven? No.
An article which claimed we had no right constitutionally to strip Ms Begum of her citizenship. You're wrong about that. Please read the full ruling by the court of appeal as to why this is the case.

Opal Mon 26-Feb-24 15:37:25

OP, I wonder if you would feel the same if ISIS had executed one of your loved ones?
She should stay where she is - incidentally, she has no surviving children.

Anniel Mon 26-Feb-24 15:44:55

I knew her children had died. I know about those awful. men who murdered English men who went to help.. I just do not think that Shamima Begum should spend her life in Syria.Should I delete this thread if another exists?

Oreo Mon 26-Feb-24 15:47:12

Not necessarily OP as you widened the topic by talking of all the other women and children from various countries being held in Syria.

meddijess Mon 26-Feb-24 15:49:31

Quite agree Opal. Our country should follow the example of France and deport imams who spread Islamist propaganda. A lot of British people are well-meaning but seem to have no understanding of what ISIS stands for, and how many followers this death cult has in our country. Leave Begum where she is.

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 15:56:55

Then today in The Spectator I read an article which claimed we had no right constitutionally to strip Ms Begum of her citizenship
Obviously the decision was legally correct as it has been upheld unanimously by the Court of Appeal judges.

The children of these women do not deserve to live like that, they have done nothing wrong. They should have been taken away and sent back to their mothers' countries to give them a chance of a normal life. It is up to the countries concerned what happens to these women.

.Looks like the women and children are paying a heavier price than the men.
Not necessarily. Many men are in camps or in prison. Presumably the security services know more about these women and why they have not been brought back.

Oreo Mon 26-Feb-24 15:58:38

Prison in the UK for some, but once they’ve served their sentence then free to live a normal life here.

JaneJudge Mon 26-Feb-24 15:59:27

She was a child when she was groomed. It's abuse.

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 16:01:56

Oreo

Prison in the UK for some, but once they’ve served their sentence then free to live a normal life here.

I meant men from various countries prison in Syria plus thousands in displaced persons' camps there.

mumofmadboys Mon 26-Feb-24 17:03:42

I think she should be allowed back to the UK. She was radicalised in this country. She is our problem. She made a big mistake at 15. Surely we can forgive a teenager and give her another chance? I absolutely agree she would need strict supervision.

Delia22 Mon 26-Feb-24 17:10:46

I have stated on the other thread, leave her where she is. Who knows how big a threat she would pose to this country?The security agencies will have files on her probably saying as much. At 15 I don't believe she didn't know the difference between right and wrong!! She made her choice........

Witzend Mon 26-Feb-24 17:18:53

I can’t say I have a whole lot of sympathy for her, but she was fifteen, for heaven’s sake, when she was more or less groomed into going. And she grew up in the U.K., so she’s our responsibility.

I can imagine those girls all had a vaguely Mills-and-Boon-y idea of running away to marry a handsome warrior - and they were doing it in the name of Allah, which of course made it - in their eyes - not only excusable, but laudable.

I dare say they all came from religious families, and wouldn’t have been allowed a lot of freedom, so that would have been an added inducement to ‘break free’, so to speak.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 26-Feb-24 17:22:32

We have already gone over this in the other thread.

The court has confirmed that the Home Secretary acted lawfully in revoking her British citizenship.

Some of the hearings were held in camera because they involved putting sensitive information about national security before the court. We cannot be privy to that information but it is clear that the security services have reason to believe that she represents an ongoing threat to public safety. She is no longer a 15 year old girl but a woman who joined ISIS and witnessed what they did, without any expression of remorse.

If she were returned to the UK it seems that the only offence for which she could be tried, in the absence of any evidence of involvement in terrorism in the UK, is belonging to a proscribed organisation. The sentence would be short and she would then be free to walk among us, radicalising others and conspiring to commit acts of terrorism.

Stop seeing her as a 15 year old girl and see her as a dangerous woman from whom we need to be protected. She is a terrorist and deserves no sympathy.

M0nica Mon 26-Feb-24 17:45:00

Opal How cruel and callous you sound, I am sure you are not.

Shamima Begum was just 15 when she went to Syria. She was a child, at an age where children have pashs on teachers, and when 15 year olds run away with a teacher, our compassion for the child, is our dominant feeling and condemnation for the adult that led her astray. 15 is the age when life is black and white. She was living in a community and home, which if not actively supporting ISIS, certainly supported muslim militancy.

As we keep saying. She was a child. As for her children, by the time she was 19 she had had three children and seen them all die as infants. Can you not even begin to think what that is like for anyone, for you, or anyone you know. I find it unimagineable. it can only support the argument to bring her home.

It is not a question of legal right, it is the question of blaming a child for the fact that they were abused and betrayed by adults.

How does Shamima' Begum differ from those girls abused in Rochdale?

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 26-Feb-24 17:49:39

You obviously claim to know better than the security services, the Home Secretary and the courts MOnica.

Would you be happy to have her living next door to you or any of your children?

MissInterpreted Mon 26-Feb-24 17:50:47

Germanshepherdsmum

We have already gone over this in the other thread.

The court has confirmed that the Home Secretary acted lawfully in revoking her British citizenship.

Some of the hearings were held in camera because they involved putting sensitive information about national security before the court. We cannot be privy to that information but it is clear that the security services have reason to believe that she represents an ongoing threat to public safety. She is no longer a 15 year old girl but a woman who joined ISIS and witnessed what they did, without any expression of remorse.

If she were returned to the UK it seems that the only offence for which she could be tried, in the absence of any evidence of involvement in terrorism in the UK, is belonging to a proscribed organisation. The sentence would be short and she would then be free to walk among us, radicalising others and conspiring to commit acts of terrorism.

Stop seeing her as a 15 year old girl and see her as a dangerous woman from whom we need to be protected. She is a terrorist and deserves no sympathy.

I couldn't have put it better myself. She gets no sympathy whatsoever from me.

Calendargirl Mon 26-Feb-24 17:51:42

Opal doesn’t sound ‘cruel and callous’ to me.

She’s saying what many others think.

halfpint1 Mon 26-Feb-24 17:52:30

She was young when she joined Isis but I seem to recall
she became one of the Isis Female 'Police' and handed out
punishment to other females. Obviously we don't know
everything , she may have been misled initially but if true her
past activities justify some punishment.
Her parents do not seem to be helping her either.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 26-Feb-24 17:52:53

Indeed.

mumofmadboys Mon 26-Feb-24 17:55:23

Is there no room for forgiveness?

Casdon Mon 26-Feb-24 17:59:06

mumofmadboys

I think she should be allowed back to the UK. She was radicalised in this country. She is our problem. She made a big mistake at 15. Surely we can forgive a teenager and give her another chance? I absolutely agree she would need strict supervision.

I agree. Whatever she has done, she is a British citizen, and should be treated by our judicial system, not dumped in a camp.

Aveline Mon 26-Feb-24 18:06:09

She'll not come back to a 'normal life' here. What does that mean? What is a 'normal life' here? A normal UK life or an islamic version of life here?
This is just a massive gravy train for lawyers