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Church compensation is not enough, apparently!

(36 Posts)
Sarnia Mon 04-Mar-24 11:45:56

Bishop Rosemarie Mallett has complained that the £100m given by the Church to right slavery wrongs is not enough. She would like to see it increased to £1b. I daresay she would. This money is due to go in grants to non-profit making investments in the black community. Back in the 1700's when slavery was rife that was how things were. We can't change any of that and in my view nobody should be paying some sort of compensation for what happened centuries ago.

Grantanow Mon 04-Mar-24 11:53:24

The Bishop is wrong. What about putting up clergy wages and spending on church renovation? I believe the UK taxpayer only finished paying the debt on compensating British slave owners to free the slaves in 2015: I see no case for taxpayer funds going to compensate former slaves/countries/investments given that massive contribution to their freedom. And the British kept the West African Naval Squadron in place to prevent slave shipping for many years at public expense. There may be a moral case for the descendents of slave owners to contribute but they are not responsible for the actions of their forefathers.

Smileless2012 Mon 04-Mar-24 12:30:14

I agree Grantanow. All churches are having to increase their 'free will offering' in 2025 and those unable to pay the increase may well face closure. This money should be spent on helping to sustain the churches that are still open.

MaizieD Mon 04-Mar-24 12:35:07

It's not 'taxpayer funds', though, is it? It's church funds. The C of E is very wealthy.

Slave owners were compensated for fir loss of their 'property'. Slaves were abandoned to fend for themselves. No compensation for them for loss of liberty and being forced to work for their 'owners'.

Ilovecheese Mon 04-Mar-24 12:40:20

Very true MaizieD

BlueBelle Mon 04-Mar-24 13:03:59

Totally agree maizeD horrendous times The church should pay (also for all the children abused by priests, vicars, bishops etc)

Grantanow Mon 04-Mar-24 14:08:03

MaizieD

It's not 'taxpayer funds', though, is it? It's church funds. The C of E is very wealthy.

Slave owners were compensated for fir loss of their 'property'. Slaves were abandoned to fend for themselves. No compensation for them for loss of liberty and being forced to work for their 'owners'.

If there was any moral obligation to the freed slaves it rested with the former owners, not present day taxpayers or the CofE. It's not exactly true that the CofE is a wealthy institution. The money is held by the Church Commissioners who are not controlled by the clergy or laity. Some decades ago the Commissioners saw their investments take a nosedive which had an adverse effect on clergy salaries and pensions. It's not clear whether Mallet wants the Commissioners to divert money to slave-related causes from their primary responsibilities or expects the CofE laity to divvy up. Given falling church attendances I suspect the latter would result reduced membership.

Cossy Mon 04-Mar-24 14:08:54

MaizieD

It's not 'taxpayer funds', though, is it? It's church funds. The C of E is very wealthy.

Slave owners were compensated for fir loss of their 'property'. Slaves were abandoned to fend for themselves. No compensation for them for loss of liberty and being forced to work for their 'owners'.

Well said!

Oreo Mon 04-Mar-24 14:27:41

Those slaves are long, long gone.
It’s stupid to keep giving in to this wokery.Most black people in the UK chose to travel here to live from the West Indies and have benefited, as is their right to an education here and a wide choice of jobs and careers.
The Church of England lost it’s way years ago and is reaping as it sowed to use a biblical saying.
I’m not a member but would refuse to contribute in church if that’s what they spend the money on.Churches nearly always need refurbishment, new roof or whatever and clergy at the lower end poorly paid.

Freya5 Mon 04-Mar-24 14:49:23

MaizieD

It's not 'taxpayer funds', though, is it? It's church funds. The C of E is very wealthy.

Slave owners were compensated for fir loss of their 'property'. Slaves were abandoned to fend for themselves. No compensation for them for loss of liberty and being forced to work for their 'owners'.

No one today , unless trafficked by unscrupulous criminals, is a slave, or suffering from the effects of slavery. Wonder if Portugal, the starter,well apart from the Africans themselves, of the European slave trade, are navel gazing as much as us. No reparations.

HousePlantQueen Mon 04-Mar-24 14:58:14

Money would be better spent on preventing or helping the victims of modern day slavery rather than wearing a hair shirt about things which happened generations ago and are not the fault or responsibility of people alive now. Acknowledgement of past ills is not the same as constant guilt money

Maggiemaybe Mon 04-Mar-24 15:07:59

There are an estimated 50 million modern day slaves living now, some even in this country. These are the people truly suffering the impact of slavery and any spare cash, from any source, could imho be better spent on work leading to freeing them.

We give a small monthly donation to our local church. I hope it goes towards necessary upkeep, the outreach work they do, such as their bereavement group and food bank, and the support they give to an African parish they’re twinned with. The C of E offering £100m compensation and seemingly accepting responsibility for having a 30 year stake in a particular company over 300 years ago has led directly to this demand and threatens all the good work done by local teams.

flappergirl Mon 04-Mar-24 19:59:36

Well, the C of E might have enjoyed an enduring congregation if it hadn't turned the Windrush generation away at the church doors. It actively and shamelessly denied devout Christians who sought solace amid appalling prejudice the right to worship. This was post war by the way. Hush money me thinks.

Katie59 Mon 04-Mar-24 21:22:46

Maggiemaybe

There are an estimated 50 million modern day slaves living now, some even in this country. These are the people truly suffering the impact of slavery and any spare cash, from any source, could imho be better spent on work leading to freeing them.

We give a small monthly donation to our local church. I hope it goes towards necessary upkeep, the outreach work they do, such as their bereavement group and food bank, and the support they give to an African parish they’re twinned with. The C of E offering £100m compensation and seemingly accepting responsibility for having a 30 year stake in a particular company over 300 years ago has led directly to this demand and threatens all the good work done by local teams.

There are plenty in the UK who are enslaved or bonded by debt, under threat of death if they don’t do as they’re told.
They are in every large town or city.
Worldwide many millions probably far more than 17th century.

nanna8 Mon 04-Mar-24 21:43:08

I think Denmark and Norway should give me compensation for invasion of my country of birth. Damned Vikings, and they had the cheek to intermingle with my ancestors and give me some of their DNA!

Kalu Mon 04-Mar-24 22:00:03

A valid point Freya. The Africans themselves were responsible for running a profitable trade in selling their own
people to wealthy businessmen. Both parties guilty of this inhumane treatment of other human beings.

Britain was the first country to condemn slavery while other Europeans and Americans continued to do so.

Compensation should have been given to those used for slavery by the guilty, wealthy parties in the 17th century. Who are we supposed to compensate in this century?

flappergirl Mon 04-Mar-24 22:42:35

Oreo

Those slaves are long, long gone.
It’s stupid to keep giving in to this wokery.Most black people in the UK chose to travel here to live from the West Indies and have benefited, as is their right to an education here and a wide choice of jobs and careers.
The Church of England lost it’s way years ago and is reaping as it sowed to use a biblical saying.
I’m not a member but would refuse to contribute in church if that’s what they spend the money on.Churches nearly always need refurbishment, new roof or whatever and clergy at the lower end poorly paid.

Oreo. Do you honestly believe that the Caribbean communities who arrived post war benefitted from a wide choice of jobs and careers?

They faced horrific prejudice and abuse from every establishment and at every level of society. Landlords refused them housing, shops refused to serve them, entertainment venues turned them away and most shameful and hurtful of all so did the C of E (see my post above).

Signs declaring "no blacks, no Irish and no dogs" were common place. The Racial Equalities Act of 1968 (thanks to the Labour party) made many of these practices technically illegal but in reality it still continued for years afterwards which affected their children and grandchildren.

maddyone Tue 05-Mar-24 00:01:50

Oreo

Those slaves are long, long gone.
It’s stupid to keep giving in to this wokery.Most black people in the UK chose to travel here to live from the West Indies and have benefited, as is their right to an education here and a wide choice of jobs and careers.
The Church of England lost it’s way years ago and is reaping as it sowed to use a biblical saying.
I’m not a member but would refuse to contribute in church if that’s what they spend the money on.Churches nearly always need refurbishment, new roof or whatever and clergy at the lower end poorly paid.

I agree Oreo.
Slavery was nothing to do with me!

maddyone Tue 05-Mar-24 00:03:00

I know someone will come along and say it was, but it absolutely wasn’t and I’m not swallowing that kind of nonsense.

Eloethan Tue 05-Mar-24 00:10:22

It seems to be a common theme that what's gone is gone and nobody now should be held responsible for what happened in the past.

But what happened then continues to affect generations that were not directly involved.

The capture, deportation, degradation and de-humanisation of the enslaved people was carried out on an industrial scale by people who considered themselves to be law-abiding citizens and who had memorials erected to praise their "good works".

All nations who were involved in the slave trade benefited from, and continue to benefit from, the theft of natural resources and the free labour that they received.

As others have already pointed out, slave owners were recompensed but those whose forebears suffered enslavement, humiliation and loss of identity seem to have been forgotten.

mumofmadboys Tue 05-Mar-24 07:24:23

The C of E is not wealthy. That is a misconception. The Church has a huge maintenance bill to pay , a lot of stipends to find and retired clergy to pay pensions for.

ronib Tue 05-Mar-24 07:45:09

Reading this thread led me to see if Germany was paying compensation to victims of the Holocaust. It is. This makes complete moral sense.
I think though that if the Church of England is going to recompense for slavery, will other Christian denominations follow? Or did Catholics not benefit from slave labour for example?

grandMattie Tue 05-Mar-24 07:52:20

C of E is asset rich and cash poor!
What really annoys me about this reparation, is that the British bought the slaves. They didn’t go and find them, the6 were supplied y many willing vendors; the Arab slavers, the chiefs of villages, all of whom mad3 a lot of money too.
Then what about the Barbary pirates who had raids in Europe, Cornwall, up to Scandinavia. There were almost impossible means of buying them back - we have never asked for compensation or reparation from them. Perhaps we should.
I think bygones should be bygones and any money used to help today’s slaves and destitute.

Iam64 Tue 05-Mar-24 08:13:46

Oreo, the Windrush generation may have ‘chosen’ to come to the UK but like many other groups from former colonies, they were invited because the UK needed workers. As others have said, they all to often were subjected to racism.
Their ancestors didn’t choose to be enslaved and it’s clear the legacy of slavery lingers.
It’s right there’s a serious debate about compensation for the damage the slave trade caused

Sparklefizz Tue 05-Mar-24 08:17:31

nanna8

I think Denmark and Norway should give me compensation for invasion of my country of birth. Damned Vikings, and they had the cheek to intermingle with my ancestors and give me some of their DNA!

Ditto nanna8 I have their DNA too.