Ageism

At the time I was peeved and didn't think this doom and gloom merchant ought to be working with the unemployed. I wanted someone to give me encouragement not tell me I was on the scrap heap! I've never forgotten her words although I can't really say that my current situation proved her right or that her prediction played a part in me still not working six years on. What I needed/need is an inspiring careers advisor to help me look at my situation with different eyes. Instead, I keep finding people who seem particularly negative and have no suggestions for someone in my situation. I got the distinct feeling at one point that I was being greedy wanting a job when so many young people were trying to get started.

Now that it's all changed I have another ten years until I can claim my state pension (I started work at 15 and worked continuously until I hit 50 so have made a full contribution) and feel I should be doing more but have no idea what. I've slid into a comfy rut but sometimes think I've short-changed myself but can't come up with a solution.

Sorry to disagree Mollie but belief in yourself comes from within. Henry Ford summed it up when he said
'Whether you think you can, or think can't -- you're right'

Will try again
'whether you think you can, or you think you can't -- you're right'

Sorry, Aka, not sure what bit of my post you are referring to? I don't think the JC woman was right in her prediction so I'm not blaming her for my situation. I only posted because it was a relevant experience of ageism. My plea for an inspired CA was more for information practicalities of retraining or knowing local opportunities, not to booster my self confidence or self-belief but it wouldn't have hurt. Isn't that what careers advisors do? And I know my situation is all down to me and thought that was obvious, even to a twit like me.

I'm trying to say, very badly I think, that we rely too much on others, their opinions, their approval, etc. I think I would have created a bit of a scene if someone had said that to me, demanded to see her line manager and so on. It was a disgraceful and untrue thing to say. But I wouldn't have accepted that and would come back fighting, not discouraged.
That's what I meant by my quote.
Sorry if it sounded harsh it wasn't meant to.

Not harsh, just me not quite catching your meaning...

I was made redundant into early retirement in my mid-50s. After a year back at University I went job hunting and had a similar experience to Mollie's. I was fortunate I had a pension and a husband in a well paid job so after a year of job-hunting I made a positive decision to stop wasting my time looking for a job and I went for voluntary work. I worked as a volunteer for a charity for older people as a benefit advisor and home visitor. It was one of the most enjoyable occupations I have had. I got £100,000s of benefits for older people and also developed the skills needed to become an advocate for my clients at Social Security Tribunals, usually successfully. I only stopped doing it when funding for the project ceased and it was closed down. By that time I was heading for 70 and had grandchildren, so I decided to voluntary work that was less demanding.

None of us have much control over what life throws at us. But how we respond to it is entirely in our own hands. That applies to agism. The first person to patronise me because of my age will be taken off at the knees, metaphorically.

I have started doing that too FlicketyB. "Excuse me. Could you talk to me please, not my daughter. Just because I have grey hair does not indicate senility". More of us should do it. (It is quite fun. And you do get an apology)

I had an aunt, under 5 foot with a sweet old lady face. She had been the Senior Nursing Tutor in a big London Hospital and could reduce the most truculent nurse to a quivering mess with a look.

She would look anyone who patronised her up and down and then address them as 'Young Man' or 'Young Lady'. It was never known to fail. Even her GP did as she told him!

Yesterday I was told in a very patronising manner to 'go & sit in the conservatory in the sun, dear' while I pop up into the attic (to change a water softener in the tank). And that was my 89 year old mother talking - she goes ballistic if anyone speaks to her like that.

Yes Gadabout but she's your mother, isn't she?
I expect she loves having someone to still be a mother to. It seems a long time since someone mothered me

I have had a lovely part time job for the lasy 10 years . I do it for love not money and have no intention of retiring (I am 61) . However since getting a new boss 1 year ago I have not been sent on any of the many training or job development courses which we regularly attend. I have been told in confidence by her deputy that she believes it would be a waste of money as I "cannot have long to go!" I hope she means in the job and nothing more!

Apparently she knows she would be breaking the law if she were to come right out and say this or to start questionning me about retirement.

I have an appraisal due shortly with her when I intend to make it clear that I do not have any plans to retire and to ask , innocently, about the lack of ongoing training. To be honest I am not that bothered as long as I can go on doing what I love and have no desire for advancement but that is not for her to assume and many people in my position would feel differently. I hate confrontation and would hate to create conflict .This is ageism , at 33 I suppose I seem ancient to her but my previous appraisals show that I am very effective in my roleand that should be all that matters. I also have less sick leave than almost anyone else there.

nuttynana the lack of training opportunities is a serious issue, and I don't want to alarm you, but you should make it clear that you do want the same opportuniities as everyone else.
If you don't, from what I understand, she could try to make you redundant on the grounds that you were less 'technically competent' than others who had been on the courses. In other words, you need to maintain the same level of competence as the other employees and you need to demonstrate your interest and your love of the job.

nuttynana I have no idea what size company you work for, but if you can, join your union.

I worked for a large international company. I was discriminated against twice, the first was sexism, the second one had elements of ageism. First time I was on my own fighting my battle and lost out. Second time I was a union member. I spoke to my union rep. He had a word with HR and a meeting was set up where the issue was discussed. The manager concerned backed off and I got the training I was entitled to and he stopped his campaign to downgrade my work.

Make sure you are clear about your rights before the appraisal and ask her directly if there is any way in which your performance falls short of her requirements. Make sure that the record of the appraisal is accurate before you sign it off.
I think you are right that some young managers feel a bit lacking in confidence when managing older employees.

Thank you all so much for the advice. [FLOWERS]

I have more qualifications and have been on more training courses than anyone else in the role but yes , ongoing professional development and training is important. I WILL join the union I think, JUST IN CASE, . There is no conflict as yet because I was not sure until recently that it was actually happening and was intentional . I think I have enough experience to let her know , in the nicest possible way , that I am not to be messed with! [GRIN]
Did you notice that I have trained myself to use Smileys?

Or not!

at the age of 56 I trained to be a complementary therapist, most co students were in their 20s but a few were forties and 50s, I now realise that no-one wants a therapist who is over 40, bigger than a size 10 and doesn't wear thick make up plastered to her face. We are aligned with beauty therapists who are stick thin and vacuous. The sad part of it is that many older /disabled people want a therapist who is older and can sympathise with sagging skin, grey hair etc. however look around, no beauty salons have anyone like me. The only way to work is to be self employed which takes money and commitment. It should not be this way

i wish you much success
Catus

I don't really have a specific example but i do find people look at the grey hair and dismiss me. It's wrong but sadly a fact of life (or maybe just my life)

Its why I stay blonde!

You & me both Roses

Cactus I'm totally with you. I used to take advice from a Fenwicks assistant who was much older than the run of the mill counter girls. She understood older skin .. Sadly she has disappeared. We need an invisible emoticon.Deborah Ross in the Times this morning ranting on about being too old at forty. I think she has forgotten about her rant a few weeks ago at the ghastliness of old age pensioners .

I refuse to accept getting older At nearly 75 I have just established an IPad tutorial service with a friend. We aim mainly at retired people who just need confidence to tackle something new and challenging
Another aid is mixing with people who are young---not only in years but attitude

When I started work back in the day part of the deductions from salaries was labelled "graduated pension". These deductions were supposedly towards a pension when retirement age came. State pensions are now labelled as "benefits" along with housing benefit, unemployment benefit etc. so that pensioners become part of the burden on the welfare state rather that people who have earned some reward for a working life during which they have contributed to the income of the country.