De-Classification of Sheltered Housing and removal of Community Alarms

There's a local HA sheltered housing scheme which has a resident Maintenance Man. I don't know what his official title is but he and his wife are the same Trisher, with the advantage over the previous part time warden that he can change a light bulb which she wasn't allowed to do!

Hi everyone.
When there was a full-time warden/Scheme manager here, she did arrange social outings, get togethers etc. and was a physical presence in the scheme. Now, we have an elderly living advisor who does what she can, but she has 3 schemes to look after so her time is very limited.
The repairs are another problem. We have been told that changing lightbulbs etc. is the responsibilityof the tenant - fine, unless you are in your 70s, 80s or 90s and standing on a stepladder is out of the question. If you have relatives you can ask then that's fine but there are quite a few of the residents who don't have anyone to call on so the 'younger' residents help out when they can. Repairs within the scheme are also rather hit and miss, with corridor lighting being weeks before being repaired. As you can imagine, in the evening and at night the corridors are pitch dark, but there is an 'emergency' light which isn't even bright enough to see the keyhole in the door to the flats! According to Guinness this is sufficient until the light is repaired. To give you an example, there is a strip light which has failed in a corridor, a man came out to fix it, and said it needed a new starter and tube which needed to be ordered. The repairs team are not allowed to go and pick up the items needed, but they have to be ordered through Guinness, then when the items are ready, another order has to be raised for the repairs team to collect the order and then come out to make the repair. This can take weeks even though Guinness has a '24 hour emergency repair' and a straightforward repair which needs to be completed in 22 days. As for the garden, we have 2 'sides' to the garden, separated by the communal lounge and the internal corridor leading to it from the main block of flats. The grounds maintenance team cut the grass, and once a year they trim any hedges. The arborists check the trees every 5 years unless requested to come out to a problem. I look after the garden one side and another resident and his wife look after the other side. If we didn't there would be no colour, no flowers just grass.
So you see, Guinness do as little as possible so to now remove the alarm system without replacing it themselves, and also de-classifying from Sheltered Housing to Adult living, they will be able to remove whatever services they still provide, which is hardly anything. Some of the residents have lived here for over 20 years and to listen to them talk about the way it 'used to be', they might just as well be talking about a totally different place, because the present scheme bears no resemblence to the way it used to be. They used to feel safe and secure but no longer and are very unhappy and scared about the future.

youngagain Wow I thought my mum's housing association were bad but they're stars compared with Guinness! You probably know that all the things they provide should be costed in your service charge and that you have to be notified about this. One of the things we challenged when there was a manager who was working 2 schemes was how much each was paying for her. We also asked questions about who was paying for holidays, how many days the manager was absent from the scheme and why. Shortly after this a full time manager returned to their scheme. You are also entitled to see all the accounts relevant for your scheme. We found some discrepancies and were able to claim a refund.
You might also point out to them the if they are failing to maintain the building adequately and exposing tenants to a high risk of accidents their Public liability Insurance cover might be withdrawn

Thanks Trisher. You've made some really interesting points and I will take these to the other tenants. The point about maintaining the building adequately was especially interesting and is something I will be looking into. The insurance policy is supposed to be put on the notice board and a few months ago I pointed out to the housing officer that it was out of date by 3 years!! I was assured that it was current and they had simply forgotten to change it, but 3 years is a long time to forget.
I am also going to send a few emails to different media sources to see whether we can get some more publicity and thank you to everyone for their suggestions as to who to contact.
I will keep this updated so you can see how we are progressing. The ruling by the Housing Ombudsman will determine the outcome, and I sincerely hope it is in our favour. The information from a solicitor was very favourable and I have passed this on to the Housing Ombudsman.

Do you have Inside Out (local BBC) in your area? They focus on one or maybe two items in a half hour prime time programme. The conversion of sheltered housing schemes into old peoples ghettos is something they may well take up. The publicity may well have a good effect. Even having the BBC sniffing around can get results.

Morning all. Thanks NfkDumpling. I have looked and there is an Inside Out in the South so that will be another programme to contact.
Maureen Lipman is on the BBC this morning finding out what the older generation get up to in order to be able to combat loneliness and it is really interesting. I am going to contact this show and although the episodes have probably already been recorded, it might be something they find interesting for the future.
As soon as I have contacted the programmes you have all suggested I will let you all know.
On a lighter note, I am proofreading my granddaughter's papers for her final year in Uni and I am loving it. She is taking her Honours in Journalism and her papers are really good (even if I am a bit biased). It makes me feel I am doing something to help her and I am so proud of her.
Now for the shopping - more paint for my son's flat!
Speak to you soon everyone. Have a lovely day.

I have contacted the BBC TV and Radio shows as advised by some of you ladies and now I will wait to see if anyone responds. I couldn't find a way to contact the show that Maureen Lipman was on this morning at 9.15am, but I have sent an email to the BBC in the hope that they may share it with relevant programmes. I am also going to try and contact our local paper and also see if one of the nationals may be interested. I will keep you all updated.
Tomorrow I have a workshop for Look Good Feel Better with ladies undergoing cancer treatment. We help ladies and teenagers deal with the visible side effects of their cancer treatment. We are the Beauty industry's official charity and every lady is given a wonderful goody bag free of charge, donated by the companies who are supporting us. We hold workshops in 91 centres throughout the UK, Northern Ireland and the Channel Islands. So ladies, if you know someone going through treatment and think they would enjoy a visit to one of our workshops, please contact lgfb.co.uk where you can find a workshop near you. We have a great time with lots of laughter and chatter - a visit to hospital which doesn't involve treatment! We are volunteers and many of us have gone through the same as the ladies attending and we know how much of a boost it gives these ladies and teenagers.
Have a lovely day tomorrow.

We thought it would be useful to provide reassurance to those on this blog about the changes Guinness is making to our current community alarm service.

Our service is outdated and with advanced technology there are better options on the market that can cater for individual needs – enabling choice around security and reassurance that many seek. We’re visiting every customer to discuss their individual needs and where they would like an alternative we’re making sure the new arrangement is set up and working before we decommission or remove their existing unit.

There has been no change in the designation of this housing scheme – it has been and remains sheltered housing. Apart from the community alarm, the service we provide is not changing and will continue to be of the same high standard.

Many of the solutions on the market are wearable technology and have a long range, so can be used in the communal areas and gardens as well as in the home, offering greater security.

youngagain – if you have any other issues, do contact us on 0303 123 1890.

Morning everyone
I have read the statement from Guinness and it contradicts what was said at a meeting on 11th January by the Housing Manager who stated we were no longer Sheltered Housing, but we are now Adult Living/Housing for Older People; it contradicts what was said in the final response from Guinness to the complaint we submitted, where they said we are not Sheltered Housing, we are Adult Living; it makes no mention of the case we are making that the responsibility for the replacement of the alarm system is down to Guinness and not for the individual tenant to pay for a private provider. As I have said previously, why get tenants to sign a Disclaimer saying Guinness are no longer responsible for the maintenance or replacement of the alarm system if Guinness are not responsible for replacing the system?
I phoned the number given, but as I knew already, this is the general number to call for repairs, payments etc. and is not a dedicated number to speak to whoever made the above statement.
As I said before, pendants and wristbands are available with the current alarm system, so this is no different to the new alarm systems although the newer systems have better technology. I have a wristband myself.
Sorry Guinness, but your reassurance is contradictory to the statements you have made, which I have on record and in writing.

As someone who has seen 'updated" technology installed unsuccessfully in a sheltered housing scheme I would issue a warning about this. Currently I believe my mother's scheme is undertaking the reinstalling of orange cords because of the failure of "advanced technology" so I would ask Guinness to consider this matter carefully and to ensure that
1. All the tenants are kept fully informed and understand what is happening.
2. All the tenants understand and can use the technology that is introduced.
3. The technology has a proper trial period where the orange cords remain in position until it has passed a proper test.
If Guinness can only ask youngagain to contact THEM about this it would indicate to me that they are failing to properly communicate with their tenants.

youngagain I think it is obvious that Guinness are totally inadequate as far as communication and information are concerned. Keep going they need people like you to keep them in order.

Thank you Trisher. On my way out now but will be back this evening.

I remember when the Guinness Trust was a name to trust, but it seems to be going the way of all large organisations ruled by their accountants.

My mother looked at a local sheltered housing scheme many years ago when she could no longer cope alone as I'd persuaded her that sheltered housing provided security and companionship - as the one near me with its resident warden did. The scheme looked nice, but on the outskirts of a village with few services and VERY quiet. No movement. No warden. Mum said it would have been like being buried alive and she'd be better off staying put as at least there was life around and someone next door young and strong enough to change a light bulb for example.

Why would anyone want to move into these schemes nowadays? Would you Mr Guinness Trust? They're dead.

Actually although we have had our problems with the housing association I am absolutely certain that my mum's quality of life has been improved and extended because of her sheltered housing. Now 94 she isn't able to go out on her own, but has an active social life within the scheme. Monday and Wed evenings are bingo, Tues is coffee morning and games afternoon. Thurs is craft afternoon. Fri is Quiz afternoon. Add to that trips out once month, celebrations for everything you can think of and she has enough to occupy her and keep her young.

Wonderful! That's what my mum had in mind, but the only one with vacancies was this wardenless one. She'd been an organiser all her life and was looking forward to being orgainised!

Hi Trisher. My understanding of this scheme is that years ago this scheme was run in the same way with a full time warden, lots of social life and outings. However, this scheme now bears no resemblence to the previous years. Hi NfkDumpling. I wonder if that wardenless scheme was run by Guinness as well!? I wouldn't be surprised! A resident organises a coffee morning on a Wednesday; he and his wife organise a fish and chip lunch or cream tea every couple of months. We have a television in the lounge but can't use it because there isn't a licence for it. We can't hold a film afternoon with DVDs because there is no Entertainment Licence for the TV.
In the past, people elected to come into Sheltered Housing because they, and their relatives, believed it would be safe, secure, with help on hand if they needed it; an alarm cord system should an emergency arise; social events and outings so isolation and loneliness was something the residents wouldn't have to cope with. I believe the alarm cords were at one time answered by the warden, but the system is managed by an external company now.
Oh for the activities and social events enjoyed by your mother, Trisher.

I must say that my mum's scheme has improved greatly since the appointment of the new manager. Other people just sat in the office. He is the sort of chap who likes to work and keep occupied. So he organises things during the day, as well as keeping the garden and outside area neat and clean. The residents organise the bingo sessions. All too often the job is done by someone totally unsuitable, I think the chap is a godsend, always busy, always amiable.Every scheme should get someone like him.

He sounds brilliant and just the sort of person we could do with here as a full time warden/scheme manager. No chance I'm afraid. The Elderly Living Advisor is great but she has to look after 3 schemes so time is limited and organising social events or outings is not part of her job.
The outside of the communal lounge, and the closed in corridor connecting the lounge to the block of flats has not been cleaned for years, because Guinness can't decide who is responsible for the cleaning of this area! A few years ago there was a maintenance man who helped in this area and also cleared leaves from paths, tidied up gardens of the residents in the bungalows who couldn't do it themselves, but since he retired, no outside cleaning of this are has been carried out. The grass hasn't been cut yet this year - probably because grounds maintenance has, we believe, gone out to tender. I have strimmed around the flower beds, mainly because I have installed a border edging and don't want the mower to do any damage, so by strimming the area around the beds, the lawnmower doesn't need to go near it. The grass is very tall - almost a foot in places, so I hope they cut it soon, otherwise I will be strimming the whole area out of desperation because it looks a mess! Up until last year one of the other residents kept the flower beds and tubs looking good but he is now unable to do this due to arthritis, so as I said before, I look after one side of the garden and another resident looks after the other side. There will come a time when we can't look after the gardens either. Will another resident be interested enough to take over? I don't know. The age limit has been reduced to 55 so the newer tenants are still working and don't have the time or inclination.
Goodnight ladies.

youngagain I have just remembered that one of the disputes we had with mum's housing association was about them replacing a perimeter fence. Mum's flat on the ground floor was on an open piece of garden when they removed a hedge. We asked and asked eventually I went to mum's local councillor who was wonderful. She visited the scheme and took up the cause, the fence went upon no time! You might invite councillors and your MP to visit and see how things are.
It sounds like a real lack of care by the landlord.
Come on Guinness explain it away!

that should be 'up in no time' - B thing thinks it knows better than me!

Hi Trisher. We have the support of a county councillor and an MP, who are both watching the proceedings with interest. I have made sure to forward all communications to them, including the statement made on here by Guinness and my reply. I contacted local councillors and I didn't even get a reply.
I went into the coffee morning today to update the residents and the first response from one of the ladies was, 'I remember the Housing Manager saying we were not Sheltered Housing any more.' Other residents also remembered the Housing Manager saying that it was just a change of name and then I disputed this, saying Sheltered Housing was a status, a specific type of housing for the elderly, and calling it Adult Living was not just a change of name. I'm glad the other residents remembered what was said so that they can confirm what was said as well as the written details I have collated.
I am going to contact our local paper today and our local ITV news programme. I will let you know how I get on.

Late this afternoon I received a call from one of the housing officers at Guinness, asking for a meeting with him and another representative from Guinness in our area.

(I'm not sure of the position this lady holds because her initial response to our complaint did not include her position within the company. However, I believe she may be an area manager in our area, but I can't confirm this. In fact, the initial response and the final response were received by email because I have never received a copy by post even though the relevant people said they had posted a response)

To get back to what I was saying. A meeting with me either in my home or at the local office was requested. At first I said that I would prefer to wait for the response from the Housing Ombudsman, but the housing officer said that this could take months because there was a backlog? How did he know unless he had contacted the Housing Ombudsman? I said that was fine and that we were prepared to wait for their ruling. I said no again to an individual meeting, that if they wanted to say anything then it should be to the tenants as well, so I suggested they attend the coffee morning next week. I said I was speaking on behalf of the tenants, but the housing officer said this was not the impression he was receiving when he was visiting individual tenants. However, I said I would not meet them on my own but would like them to visit the coffee morning so they could speak to more of the tenants and not just me.
The housing officer then rang me back and said they were still requesting a meeting with me alone, but I declined and said they should speak to the tenants at the coffee morning.
The housing officer said that residents were reticent to speak up at coffee mornings, but my response is that if they have something to say on behalf of Guinness, it should be said to everyone, not just me.
What do you think?

No way see them alone. There lies threats and coercion. If they persist in a meeting with just you make sure you have a legal representative/journalist/official type person (even the vicar) there too as witness to what is said because I bet there'll be more than one person turn up to see you. I believe you can record a meeting too provided you tell them you are doing so.

If the housing officer has already been singling off the other tenants it may be useful to see if he visited alone. I bet most agreed with whatever he said so as not to antagonise. Elderly single people feel very vulnerable and often fear loosing their homes if they complain.

Hi. Thank you very much for your advice. I have refused to meet with anyone and have said they should speak to the other residents as well as me at the coffee morning. It was actually a bit surprising that this particular housing officer was rather persisitent in wanting a meeting with me along with this other Guinness representative, but I am thinking it was perhaps a request from higher up and he was the one to convey the request.
The usual practice has been for the housing officers to visit the residents in pairs, but I know that there have been instances here where the tenants have no idea what they are signing and it hasn't been explained to them what the consequences are of signing the papers. I know that the housing officer who phoned me has been very thorough in his explanation to tenants, but not all have been so conscientious.
I agree with you about the worry and fear that the elderly have when it comes to their homes and I think this has been one of the areas that has made me so determined to carry on this complaint. The removal of Sheltered Housing status is a big worry to the elderly, and even though Guinness say that we are still Sheltered Housing in their post, this is not what they have written or stated in meetings with the residents.
I have recorded most of the meetings with any representatives from Guinness and have asked, while recording (so that their permission is on record), for their permission to record conversations or meetings and have been given permission so far. This is how I have a record of what has been said about de-classifying Sheltered Housing and the alarm cords.
I was going to phone our local paper today but was rather busy so I am doing this tomorrow.
I really appreciate your comments and support, so thank you, and I will keep updating any further developments.

Keep going youngagain it sounds as if they are getting worried. Just as an aside when I went to see my mum yesterday they had just re-installed the orange cords in her flat and were working n the rest of the building
The experiment with modern technology is over!!