Functioning Alcoholic

You can use Crimestoppers to report an habitual drinker who drives. You do not need to give your name, just any vehicle registration details and routes used.

Gillybob Quote [Assuming that there is a random drug/alcohol testing clause within the contract, what would stop the employer (after a random tip-off) from bringing the employee in and testing there and then, still resulting in dismissal? ] End Quote.

Gillybob, Random drug testing does not need to be included in an employees contract of employment. The procedure is encompassed under the Health & Safety at Work Act (HSAWA) and the Management of Health and Safety at Work legislation (MHSAWA), and therefore only notification to employees that this testing is being introduced is all that is required.

In regard to an employer who has received a "tip-off" that an employee is suspected of reporting for duty while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, then, holding an alcohol/drug test as that person arrives for a shift, may well occur, and the employee could then be dismissed.

However, in my experience, the above rarely happens. Many people get problems in their lives that result in those persons turning to alcohol or drugs in an attempt to mitigate the stress those problems may be causing. It is often the case that such a person is a longstanding, reliable and good employee to a company who the employer may well be very reluctant to dismiss based on that person past record.

In the above, to bring support to an employee in resolving their problems will maintain an asset to the company and ensure the employer is in compliance with the above legislation (HSAWA & MHSAWA). Often in these situations the solution is as straightforward as changing an employees shift patterns, or (if possible) moving the employee to a different job within the workplace as that can bring a change in their whole work outlook and attitude, and in that, often help resolve problems in their home life.

In addition, employers in present times face substantial costs in training personnel for jobs within their organisations. In Britain there is a shortage of nearly sixty thousand HGV drivers, with a similar percentage shortfall in forktruck drivers, vehicle technicians and logistics managers to name just one industry, that being road haulage. Similar situations exist within other industries were specialised training and skills are required.

Therefore substance abuse when identified and dealt with in the workplace can save costs and resources to the NHS, Social Services, the employer along with the family or dependents of the person involved in the abuse.

As is always taught in industrial safety training, the above significantly increases safety in any workplace to the benefit of all who are employed there.

In the real world, alcholics can be shop shelf stackers , builders labourers, waiters, bus drivers, teachers, doctors, refuge collectors, self employed plumbers, electricians,

Talk of companies supporting them , paying for treatment to save costs to the NHS etc ? Very few

So true Anniebach, they are working in all professions, often known and joked about, as always being up for a party or drink after work.

True GrannyGravy. And employers are going to save the NHS?

7 day detox costs approx £2,000 rehab costs approx £6,000
Is a taxi firm or any other firm going to pay this

Anniebach, who said anything about employers "paying for treatment to save the NHS costs".
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If you are referring to my above post, try reading it again. That is the real world.

grandad that is in opinion absolute rubbish.I had a sister who was an alcoholic for decades ,there was nothing that would have stopped her drinking,belive me we tried .She had her children taken off her ,lost her home ,was put in a mental health hospital and still she drank.Until the night she died age 50 .Losing their job will just give them another excuse to drink and as they have adrink problem the benefits system will give them extra cash to enable them to drin...well its easier and cheaper than actually DOING something about it .

“ therefore substance abuse when identified and dealt with in the workplace can save costs and resources to the NHS,Social Services,the employer along with the family or dependants of the person involved in the abuse”

How are these costs met ?

Sadly PaddyAnn. You speak of the real world.

But addiction can be beaten though

Anniebach, try reading my post thoroughly and thoughtfully.

I stated, "Often in these situations the solution is as straightforward as changing an employees shift patterns, or (if possible) moving the employee to a different job within the workplace as that can bring a change in their whole work outlook and attitude, and in that, often help resolve problems in their home life".

Problems in a person working life can bring about substance abuse. In other cases, issues in a person's private life can be reflected in the workplace by way of their performance and the danger they present to others. The solution can be as simple as moving an employee from working nights to days or vice versa which often proves very successful, or to a different job entirely if only for a limited period of time.

No trained Health & Safety rep will request an employer to engage in high expenditure to help an employee with substance abuse problems, but careful thought by the employer and the safety rep(s) can often give the employee a "chance" to correct their situation and save a trained person as an asset to the company.

Grandad your post is purely theoretical, out in the real world, things are totally different.

To give an example of a situation my company was involved with in the last year, a night trunk driver was having substantial periods of time off on sick leave due to chest breathing problems. The employer following a job compatibility interview felt that a case could be made to dismiss the employee.

Investigation proved that the employee was a heavy smoker and had been warned by his GP that to continue the habit was threatening his life. As night trunk driving necessitates long periods behind the wheel with little or no exercise, the employee was finding it "impossible" to give up smoking.

Faced with the problem, it was decided to place the driver on multi-Drop day delivery work, initially on light van parcels because of his lack of fitness. In that, the employee had far less time to think about smoking, and within weeks his general health and fitness began to inprove.

The last I heard he was now back on HGV class two multi drop work and in a much better health situation and frame of mind having not smoked in over five months.

In the above, I could only thank the employer and other employees who cooperated in the above. However, faced with unemployment that person demonstrated that with a changed working environment the employee was very much able to bring about his own remedial action.

A great outcome I felt.

GrannyGravy13, your post @ 17:47 is totally negative and out of touch with today's working world where problems are there to be resolved.

What is a functioning alcoholic? I enjoy 1/3 bottle of wine in the evening. At the moment I am on the 5:2 diet so have 2 nights off. I always feel a bit twitchy at the time I would usually have a glass. Does that make me drink dependent or a functioning alcoholic?

How would the thousands of small businesses ( the so called back bone of this country) swap shift patterns? Change jobs? Put someone on light duties?

granddad1943 with respect your knowledge of alcholism is 0 .

Exactly gilly how on a building firm can a bricklayer be put on light duties, or swap shift patterns, a roofer remain employed but not allowed on a roof .

GrannyGravy, you are in the real world

granddad1943...are you simply cutting and pasting pieces from a website? Your posts seem almost robotic...

Incidentally, I had another brother, who died because of a drunken moron who drove (my brother was a pedestrian). I absolutely despise anyone who drinks and drives. My alcoholic brother used to ONLY drink at home - from teatime until midnight - he was probably over the legal limit when he drove to work the next day though. Selfish and stupid.

gillybob, with regard to your post @ 17:59, as laid out in the Health & Safety at Work act and encompassing legislation that it is dependent on the resources of the company involved in such a matter.

The above legislation states in the Employers Duty of Care section that an employer must do "everything reasonably possible" to ensure the ongoing health and safety of current employees.

In that, it is obvious that many employees will likely encounter health problems from time to time if they are employed by a single employer over a long period. How that employer deals with those problems is very important if claims for unfair or constructed dismissal are to be avoided.

Many solicitors make a very good living from making claims on behalf of former employees of companies and that that can be financially devastating to a small business.

Therefore many employers wish to demonstrate that they have done "everything reasonably possible" to avoid dismissing an employee prior to carrying out such action.

In that better solutions can very often be found.

Grandad your knowledge of Health and Safety and employment legislation is vastly superior to my own. I acknowledge this.

Your knowledge of the alcoholic, functioning or otherwise, appears to be zero.

Your example of an employee reforming smoking habits due to shift changes and consideration by employers is of no consequence to this particular debate. Nicotine and alcohol are not the same issue. Neither is your statement that the fear of losing a job likely to have a profound effect on an alcoholic.

I have first hand knowledge of working with substance abuse and dependency and over 40 years as a front line worker in the NHS. The issue is never clear cut and there are moral dilemmas faced with nearly every case for the workers involved. Whilst health and safety legislation has a part to play, I feel your outlook is far too simplistic.

My first husband was an alcoholic who eventually drank himself to death as did his uncle and brother.

With respect to yourself, I feel I have a little more insight and understanding of the problem from a human, rather than legislative perspective.

The OP came to this forum for advice and support for an extremely distressing and traumatic time in her life, and if I post again on here it will be to do just that.

Lynne59, have spent the last thirty five years in industrial safety and therefore have no need to "cut and paste anything as I am aware of the surrounding legislation by heart following all that time in the industry

Grandad1943...congratulations, but the original post was from a lady who didn't know what to do about her "functioning alcoholic" husband.

Did you used to be a shop steward?

Grandad1943.... Should anyone feel that they have a functioning addict in their family, then one of the best ways of helping them is to report the matter to their employer.

You're all heart....

Izabella, in regard to your post @ 18:37 our ambition in workplace safety regarding substance abuse is to keep people from getting to the stage of needing the expertise of persons such as yourself.

Employees reporting for duty still being under the influence of drink or drugs are persons who in the main are not completely dependent of substances but feel they are "substantially reliant" on alcohol or drugs to maintain their everyday functioning. These persons I have often referred to as functioning dependents, but not being yet at the stage of needing full professional health care.

In that others in my company and myself have found that such persons are (with assistance in their working lives) capable of restoring their full capabilities of their own volition without then the need of substances or alcohol.
The threat to someone of losing their employment can be a very big stimulant to self-help being that all is dependent on a regular income in almost all cases.

I feel that by the time you come into contact with such persons Izabella they have passed our stage and having lost everything full health care professional treatment is the only answer.

I can imagine how difficult it is to pick someone up from that stage as when you have lost everything; you have nothing to lose.