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Trans Mans Fight for Child to be Motherless

(19 Posts)
B9exchange Wed 13-Feb-19 12:27:46

i.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/12/transgender-mans-fight-child-motherless-opposed-government/

I must be missing something here. I don't understand how a woman can decide she is a man, whilst retaining all her female organs and using them to have fertility treatment to become pregnant, and give birth to a child. Sure that is the very definition of femininity? I am obviously very old fashioned here, but if you physically give birth to a child, you should be recorded as that child's mother as far as the birth certificate goes? I can't imagine what that poor child is going to face as it grows up.

I have no problem with people changing gender if they feel they need to, but if you have decided to become a man, then I don't understand why you would use your womb to give birth?

sodapop Wed 13-Feb-19 12:33:26

Think I'm losing the will with all this. Like you B9exchange I don't have a problem with gender change when there is a problem but as for the rest of it.

HildaW Wed 13-Feb-19 12:42:34

Having one's cake and eating it?

HildaW Wed 13-Feb-19 12:45:42

However, I think whilst society generally expects people to be either one thing or another (M or F) we will continue to have these discussions. Perhaps at sometime in the future we will be able to accept that there are actually quite a few variants and individuals can just 'be' what/who they are.

notanan2 Wed 13-Feb-19 12:50:38

I think people should be free to live their lives how they chose but it is not okay to gasslight your own child!

If you are a woman who likes to live as a man, fine! Tell your child that children are very accepting, Im sure the child will happily call you Bob or whatever, but dont pretend to the child that it wasnt bloody born in the biological sense to a female mother!!

SueDonim Wed 13-Feb-19 13:55:04

It's another attempt to erase women and motherhood, it's pure misogyny.

Elegran Wed 13-Feb-19 14:55:45

If he is still female enough to conceive a child, carry it to term, and give birth to it, he is its de facto mother whatever he may decide he is after the event. Wanting to NEVER be its mother, not even for the time it takes to give birth and register it, shows a very troubled personality, one that I can't help feel is going to raise a very troubled child.

EllanVannin Wed 13-Feb-19 17:15:17

I'm probably the only person on the planet who disagrees with all this meddling of changing gender in the first place. I can't seem to get to grips with it without quietly thinking that there is also a MH issue here to consider first and foremost before even going ahead with a change, especially in those who are very young such as children.

M0nica Wed 13-Feb-19 17:48:19

As far as I can see gender should be defined biologically. If a body is found completely decayed on some moor, with no indication of chosen life style, or surgical interference or identity. the gender will be decided by a pathological analysis of the physical remains.

I fully understand the problems of when the mind is a different gender to the body and someone chooses to live their mental gender rather than their physical and even choosing to have surgery. But biology dictates so much of a person, the illnesses they are prone to, and their capacity to father or mother a child, in the technical sense, their build and many physical features

In an ideal world we would all accept that people can be all mixes of gender and none so that they are not forced to change their bodies to live their mental gender, although if they want plastic surgery they should be free to have it. There should a system for people to formally register which gender they have chosen to live,

But as yet there is absolutely no way that the body can be completely changed so that a dead body can be given any gender but that it is born with and the part played in conceiving and bringing children into the world is also biological gender determined.

grannyactivist Wed 13-Feb-19 17:54:26

Erm - the thought police might arrest us if we're not careful to call him/her by his/her chosen gender. shock Makes a discussion like this somewhat impossible methinks.

Lizbott Thu 14-Feb-19 02:58:34

I feel so sorry for kids these days. There is so much crap on tv and in social media portraying transgender, gender neutral, self harming, bullying and the list goes on. I personally think that teenage years are so confusing anyway that there is no need to glamourise and "normalise" gender issues. I know some people will take offence at the word normalize but can't think of an alternative. Biology determines that a WOMAN carries and gives birth. That is fact and cannot be changed, even if is is written down. Some times I feel that heterosexual people are looked down on by the lbg community as though we don't know what we are missing. I have gay friends who agree with that statement I.e we are looked down on. There are radicals in every area of life but they should not be allowed to change fundamentals.

BradfordLass72 Thu 14-Feb-19 03:16:17

We know there have always been more than just male & female in society and it is only because religions dictated that there was not, that people of diverse gender have been hounded, attacked, killed and otherwise victimised by said societies.
People don't "decide to be male or female" - did anyone posting here actually decide to be female, or male?

I see no reason why a person who feels they were born male into a female body (as millions do world-wide) should not use that body to have a child.

I have many very dear trans and diverse gender friends who go through hell just living their normal, everyday lives.

MawBroon Thu 14-Feb-19 08:26:59

To choose to have a baby, which requires the use of a female body, and then demand legal recognition as male is beyond ridiculous, selfish and unnecessary.

notanan2 Thu 14-Feb-19 22:08:04

Nah the trans movement has FARRR more in common with opd fashioned puritanical ideas of what makes a woman than the gender critical do.

Women doesn't = dressing and acting feminine and having girlie thoughts. Women are adult female humans.

Lollin Fri 15-Feb-19 11:43:22

I really don't understand the need to go through all this - why can't the person accept that they used female parts to conceive therefore surely the child cannot have been born motherless?

B9exchange Fri 15-Feb-19 14:08:25

I son't understand why someone who has chosen to be a man, should then decide, 10 days later, to go and do the one thing that is absolutely biologically female, ie carry and give birth to a child. That is not the male role that they are wanting to take on?

I think there is a valid point too to be made about the role of the fertility clinic. Surely they are there to provide assistance to women to conceive and carry a child, not someone who had decided he wants to reject his feminity?

I will be shot down in flames for this, so putting hard hat on, but I wonder if there isn't a safeguarding issue for the child, where the parent is so utterly focussed on their own wishes that they don't think of what effect this might have on their child's mental health?

trisher Fri 15-Feb-19 15:05:20

B9exchange there must be thousands of parents who fit that category for many reasons.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this, but I sympathise with anyone who takes such drastic steps.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 15-Feb-19 15:40:27

Until scientists can grow a foetus for 40 weeks in a laboratory, all humans are born out of a mothers uterus and inseminated by a father. Insemination
can occur in a Petri dish or a uterus.

It is wrong in my opinion to want to
whitewash the whole birth scenario.

notanan2 Sun 17-Feb-19 11:04:40

TRAs have SOO much in common with religous fanatics that you can draw comparisons such as:

Its okay to tell kids that not everyone believes in evolution, that some people do and other people chose to believe in creationism or intelligent design, and that mum and dad believe in creationism as it is in line with their chosen religion, but there are other theories.
Its not okay to tell them that evolution is a lie, never existed, and the only way it is okay for them to believe that things came into existance is creationism and they must not study or be taught evolution.

Similarly...

It is okay to tell a child that daddy used to have a different name but they dont like to be called that now because their old name made them sad. It is okay to tell them that daddy was your mummy but prefers to be called daddy. That daddy is female but prefers to live like a man.
It is not okay to tell the child that they never had a mother and they must not ever refer to the fact that it was "daddy" who was the female parent who conceived, carried and birthed them. It is also not okey to object to them learning about the scientific facts of biological sex.