Fined for rule breaking during "lock down"

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Here's my town during lockdown. No army needed.

I think the vast majority of people did their very best in terrible circumstances.

Sarnia

Everyone who broke the rules should face the music and I do mean everyone.

That would be me. It’s a bit difficult to support an elderly neighbour ( in the early stages of Alzheimer’s) remotely.
Perhaps you’ve got some ideas of how to switch on a freezer ( that’s she’s turned off) and is defrosting.
Any ideas how to convince someone that there is no water running under the floorboards without being there with her and listening with her.
Any ideas how I can re program her tv remotely?
All suggestions welcomed.

No I don’t know if anyone fined, but everyone I mix with kept to the rules, we knew how it was transmitted and made sure we were safe. Initially we didn’t know how it was spread.Even if there had been parties next door I wouldn't have joined in as you could see the figures. I do think it would have been hard to police..

Gagajo there are times when I got very angry at rule breaking being ignored. And felt not enough was being done to enforce them. But old people who weren't mobile enough to walk sitting beside their car enjoying the view? They were actually safer than those walking along the promenade.

GagaJo, the restrictions were obviously too lax. The infection, hospitalisation and death rates in the UK are evidence that we needed much more.

I know of somebody in Spain who was fined for taking his wife shopping. He stayed in the car - but only one person was allowed to go. He's clueless with shopping and she doesn't drive. They were told that she should have written him a list - or walked. No warning or gentle ticking off - unlike here.

Hetty58 given all we know about Covid, what harm did he do?

Coastpath

The army on the streets? To stop people sitting on benches?

Crikey.

Presumably they had to drive there? What if they had car problems? RAC? Police? Why should they have put their lives at risk because idiots couldn't follow a simple request to stay at home.

There was a party on my street in the middle of lockdown. In the street. My poor DGS watched other children playing outside together and just didn't understand why he couldn't join in.

Yes Hetty. I have a friend who lives in Spain. Very militarised. And she approved. Far too many people thinking they were the exception.

Coastpath, he broke the rules - and he risked being away from home if the car broke down, possibly then infecting other people who really needed to be out shopping.

GagaJo, they did feel very safe and protected. There was zero tolerance of rule breaking - so they felt unified, same situation for all - unlike here.

For a thankfully short period in 2020 there was a massive over-reaction by the police who were targeting people who were,just out getting some fresh air and exercise.

I’m sure we can all remember ridiculous images of pensioners moved on by police purely for sitting for a brief rest during their permitted exercise.
Then there were the two young women fined for walking, carrying takeaway coffees as they apparently constituted a picnic which was verboten.

Finally who can forget the hapless dog walker completely alone on a deserted moor up north somewhere who was spotted by a police drone?

Thankfully before long common sense prevailed and the police were reigned in.

Wouldn’t it be reassuring to feel that the police would be equally vigilant if we were unlucky enough to be burgled?

I live near the sea in north Norfolk. I remember a lot of people being fined for driving here from some distance away when it was against the rules, including a man who had driven over 100 miles ‘to walk his dogs and buy fish and chips’.

Germanshepherdsmum

I live near the sea in north Norfolk. I remember a lot of people being fined for driving here from some distance away when it was against the rules, including a man who had driven over 100 miles ‘to walk his dogs and buy fish and chips’.

My point exactly. The number of people he would have come into contact with (buying fuel, food, toilets) and could have infected if covid positive was not inconsiderable.

Highly irresponsible.

The only one I know of was a dd, early in the first lockdown, who was sternly ticked off and told to move by a female police officer, after she’d sat down on a bench in an open space (nobody else anywhere near) to breast feed a baby of about 2 months at the time.

I do remember, when the first lockdown started, feeling very anxious about walking for 10 minutes to the post office, since a parcel really did need to be posted.

I was honestly expecting a police car to stop, and to be told to go home, it wasn’t an ‘essential’ trip!

Which I dare say would have been the case in much stricter countries, e.g. Spain.

GagaJo

Yes Hetty. I have a friend who lives in Spain. Very militarised. And she approved. Far too many people thinking they were the exception.

I don't think I would have approved of having the military check if I was drinking a cup of coffee in a field.

Just a wee bit of over-reaction maybe?

Alegrias1, they really meant business and the message got through. Here, some just carried on as normal, with no consequences, making the sensible majority despair.

Throughout the past year, the government has – probably deliberately – muddled the difference between law and guidance, and social distancing has only ever been guidance,” said Adam Wagner, a barrister at Doughty Street Chambers who has studied coronavirus legislation.

Social distancing guidelines have been in place throughout the pandemic, advising people to maintain a specified distance – usually 2 metres – between themselves and others to minimise the possibility of spreading germs.

While hugging has not been banned, legally enforceable regulations did certainly make it more difficult. At points, outdoor “gatherings” or more than two people have been banned, and socialising at home with visitors remains forbidden.

But if people had mixed up the advice, which had the backing of a broad range of experts, for the law, they can be excused. “The government have hardly discouraged this confusion,” Wagner said.

Throughout the pandemic, the government has issued instructions as though they were enforceable rules, when in fact they were not, Wagner pointed out. When Boris Johnson announced the beginning of the first national lockdown in March by instructing the nation to remain indoors, the order had no legal power for three days.

“And that set the mode for the rest of the year,” Wagner said. “The most common example that people think about is exercise once per day, which has never been part of the law. It’s always been the law that you can exercise whenever you want.”

It is not just the public who have been left scratching their heads. Last spring, confusion over the legal status of rules around social distancing and for what reasons people could leave home led to police patrolling parks, scolding people for sitting too close to each other, or doing the wrong kind of exercise. Eventually the College of Policing issued guidance telling officers to only enforce what was written in the law.

Silkie Carlo, the director of the civil liberties group Big Brother Watch, said: “Throughout the pandemic the government has often blurred the lines, sometimes deliberately, between the law and merely its wishes, causing real damage to democracy and the rule of law.

“It’s quite disturbing to see this seem to manifest in huge volumes of favourable media coverage on government lifting a hugging ban that literally doesn’t exist. It would be extremely absurd if it did exist.”

This is from the guardian sometime last year. I saved it because of the backlash I received after I disclosed that I had the audacity to take 2 totally isolated walks a day on the Yorkshire moors where the nearest person was probably at least a mile away. The venomous posts I received were quite upsetting.
It was NEVER the law that we couldn’t exercise as often as we wanted. So many people have been duped into believing advice and guidance was the same as legally enforceable laws.

Hetty58

Alegrias1, they really meant business and the message got through. Here, some just carried on as normal, with no consequences, making the sensible majority despair.

Regarding the military - It doesn't matter if they meant business and the message go through. Having the armed forces on the street enforcing limits on freedom of movement for ordinary people is a no-no as far as I'm concerned. There comes a time when people have to say enough is enough.

This member of the sensible majority didn't despair. She got a bit annoyed. No despair.

Alegrias1

GagaJo

Yes Hetty. I have a friend who lives in Spain. Very militarised. And she approved. Far too many people thinking they were the exception.

I don't think I would have approved of having the military check if I was drinking a cup of coffee in a field.

Just a wee bit of over-reaction maybe?

Either have a lockdown or don't. But half a**ed messing about is/was pointless. Just doesn't work.

If you're drinking coffee in your field, fine. If you've travelled 100 miles to get there, not fine.

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

GagaJo

Germanshepherdsmum

I live near the sea in north Norfolk. I remember a lot of people being fined for driving here from some distance away when it was against the rules, including a man who had driven over 100 miles ‘to walk his dogs and buy fish and chips’.

My point exactly. The number of people he would have come into contact with (buying fuel, food, toilets) and could have infected if covid positive was not inconsiderable.

Highly irresponsible.

Of course it was, I totally agree. But driving a few minutes from your home because you aren't mobile isn't. Better to have them imprisoned in their houses, speaking to no one? The same folk who complained were (legally!) driving half an hour to supermarkets instead of using local Eurospar.

Alegrias1

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

In theory, the military are there to protect. So by moving on/finding field coffee drinkers, they're protecting essential workers from having contact with covid positive individuals who aren't complying with lockdown.

Lockdown has to be everyone to work.

Better to have them imprisoned in their houses, speaking to no one?

I had a friend in the middle of a nervous break-down during lockdown in Spain. She followed the rules at great personal cost to herself.

The same folk who complained were (legally!) driving half an hour to supermarkets instead of using local Eurospar.

Those complainers were idiots and hypocrites then.

Alegrias1

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

The same applies to Greece Alegrias1 ultra strict military enforced lockdown and yet their deaths per million are fast approaching UK figures! Italy are well ahead and theirs was policed by force also.

We were advised to exercise locally not drive somewhere for a walk.
The car park at the country park near me was full every weekend throughout lockdown.
I believe quite a few people did break the rules and if they were caught and fined then that was right and nobody should be reimbursed.

Agree with you, the ' rules' were idiotic