Poverty

We had a flat to care for too when I was at college, we had to clean it and then lay a table and cook a meal for the lecturer or visiting examiner. I don't think girls get that in depth tuition now.

I find that when I go back to England from France I am always struck by how much conspicuous consumption there is. Much flashier cars, people spending a lot of time shopping, many more consumer goods in people's homes. Credit is much harder to get in France and I am sure that this makes a difference. I do think that the consumer culture in the UK has widened the gulf between the haves and the have-nots.
I am also surprised by the number of people on here who expect schools to teach children to cook and manage a home. I don't think French people would expect schools to do this. Surely it is the duty of parents to ensure that boys and girls leave home able to cook, clean and manage their basic needs?

I personally think that things like cooking, cleaning, financial management are excellent subjects to be taught in school along with geography, history etc. It's the boring way they're taught that's the problem. For example: A whole term on Egyptians is not really necessary is it? Wouldn't it be better to put older civilisations more in context with life today? I'm not saying topics such as Egyptians are not important - they are, but children need to learn how to learn and have the ability to do lots of things - which we tend lose as we get older; or at least I am .
I guess I'm talking about poverty of education rather than material poverty.

My three sons were never forced to participate in kitchen chores but all three of them cook regularly these days and tell me that they know how to do such-and-such because they remember me doing it. Only one did any home economics in school. All three DSs have had to practise tight budgeting. Not always as successful as they should have been but .......

We had cookery at grammar school in the 50s and there was usually a tiny piece of lard to make the pastry with. I once made a fish pie (a dish I still make) and remember dropping it as I showed it to my mother after school. It dropped onto the tiled hearth and bounced back onto the rug. Still undamaged. We threw it out for the birds and even the dog, who was always on the lookout for the bird's food couldn't eat it.
After this poor start I became a good pastry cook and like my own cooked food better than any in restaurants. I take it a lot of us in GN feel the same.

Cookery is no longer taught in German schools but if you went went in most German houses you would find a home cooked meal. The children grow up expecting someday to cook for themselves.The amount of space in the Supermarkets given over to ready made foods is very small compared to the UK.
I cook with my GCs and my GS has just learned how to make scambled egg. There are so many things children can make. I loved those crunchy buns made out of cornflakes in melted chocolate. If a person grews up and can't feed himself adequately, then this is evolution going backwards.

I actually learned a lot about cooking when I was an au pair girl in Austria. My first au pair job was horrible, so the Student Union at the university sent me for an interview to a new family. They were scientists with a 16 year old daughter: the wife's mother had just died suddenly, but this old Oma had done all the cooking. Frau Lang asked if I could cook, and I said "Not a lot, but I can read and follow any recipe". She reckoned this was a good scientific answer, so I got the job and the two of us, Frau Lang and I, followed the Oma's recipe book, and other cook books. Thus I ended up knowing how to cook and also how to shop properly. I think many young people, as long as they have a couple of brain cells or more, would learn it all out of necessity if they didn't learn at home or school.

The trouble is, with all the takeaways available, the absolute necessity to learn these skills is gone or diluted nowadays. Back then in the sixties, all I remember as fast food in England, was fish n chips. I don't remember any fast food in Austria at all, except hot chestnuts on street corners in winter. Of course, there were the cafes, but on a student income, not a chance.

If people decide these skills are necessary, they will acquire them. The secret must be convincing them that life is much better if you learn to cook, clean, shop and budget.

Not all parents have the tools to educate their children in the necessities of life and this is why I agree with goldengirl that they should be given the information and practice at school. This is especially relevant at the moment as many young parents have not been taught about food or cooking at all as in many schools there have been no cookery lessons from Maggie Thatcher's era until they were made compulsory last year.

I think we should give up the idea of relying on the government to deal with poverty, its not going to happen. Our 3 sons all learnt to cook dinners but none can cook puddings which doesn't matter. They all think eating healthy food is important and all are proficient at housework although only iron when it is really important! They all think ready meals are a waste of time and the youngest, a ballet dancer, says they are not big enough!

One of our boys (men now) loves trawling charity shops for bargains and is very proud when he finds something.

I think we should be telling young people what is important and how to achieve it. Whenever you see 'the poor' being interviewed they always seem to be smoking or have complicated coloured hairdos. Recently I saw an item about food banks and a very fat woman was saying she had to miss meals to feed her children! There have been programmes about people not being able to get jobs but also ones about employers not being able to recruit.

I don't have any answers but we moved many times for work and have never claimed off the state but I can make 1/2 mince stretch and stretch and stretch............

I agree with all your post, AllisonMA, especially the bit about 'the poor' and their smoking and hairdos. They smoke because they are addicted, and buy stuff they don't need, such as expensive hairdos because they need instant gratification, and don't have the depth of thought, nor sense of responsibility, to do anything else.

How to get them to gain some real values? How to get them to think? The only way I can see is through something like a populist TV drama or one of those loathsome 'reality TV' programs. It is no good preaching to people, but some examples on low-brow telly programs could do it. Perhaps.

Or not. They'd probably see through it and cotton on that they were being 'educated'.

SO - no answers from here either.

I agree with your post, too, AlisonMA - especially about the mince!
I used to make a very cheap fish pie with tinned mackerel, as well...

I did learn to cook to a certain extent at school, but what I remember most was spending entire lessons wire wooling the baking trays !!! this would be done by the whole class. What was that supposed to achieve ???

Mum taught me to knit, but sewing was learn't at school. Although I did spend a whole school year trying to hand sew an apron

My DD is more at home under the bonnet of the car, assembling the flat packs or changing a fuse that she is in the kitchen she always was a tom- boy !

Luckily for her SIL is a squaddie so he cooks and sews.

ninathenana how right you are about squaddies being able to do most things when it comes to cooking and mending,my two where able to put together a meal from nothing since they where early teens but they learnt much more when they joined up as boy soldiers at their training base where they where taught all manner of things by their "house mother" who kept a keen eye on them whilst they completed their training prior to moving on to regiments,its things that they have never forgotton and DS1 can iron a mean shirt and turn a collar something I would run from.

I don't understand why people can't cook. If you can read you can cook, especially dinners where accurate measuring is rarely important. Last year I broke my ankle and couldn't stand so my husband had to cook and he really had no experience. When my ankle improved he asked me when I was going to start cooking and I said 'I did the first 43 years......................' He has been cooking ever since and is doing really well. He was 67 when he started so you can teach an old dog new tricks!

I heard on the news this morning that there is a charity which provides breakfast provisions to certain schools because so many children go to school without breakfast and are hungry. Also apparently many children are helped to get ready for school by older siblings who don't think about the breakfast angle. When my mother was ill I had to get my own breakfast and credit where credit was due milk and cereal were always available. Neither product is overly expensive so I think it's dreadful that children go without and are reliant on school to provide the basic. We're going back to Victorian times in more ways than one I think.

Not so sure about that, alison. Lodged in the house of an Oxford don once and he was quite capable of trying to boil cornflakes in the bag!

goldengirl going the route of children going off to school and having breakfast supplied by charities whilst there is no way I object to these little ones having the basics given at school I would like to know where is the help to aid the parents on budgeting out of their income to enable to feed their children,for a family with 4 children it would not cost you £5.00 per week to give them eggs and toast for the five school days,I know as DD does it for hers,her children have been brought up to eat what is put in front of them,I have mentioned many times at school meeting that there are a few of us "nannas" who would teach mums how to manage but none of them have shown any interest its quicker to go to McDonalds ??

I know children go to school to receive an academic education but it seems it's now necessary to teach them so much more than the three R's. Is this because most mothers have to go out to work and haven't got the time and/or energy to teach their children how to cook, clean and budget?

My mother, who came from an incredibly privileged background, was sent to a very smart domestic science college before she joined the WAAF (aged 17) and she and her equally privileged peers were taught everything about household management - from deep cleaning lavatories to entertaining royalty.

This stood her in good stead when she married my impoverished father in 1945 as she somehow managed to produce nourishing meals, make all our clothes, keep our rented attic flat immaculate AND look ravishing when she and my father went to the local Grand Hotel to dances with, as I discovered years later, a bottle of whisky secreted in M's petticoat to share with friends!

Sorry. Have gone off thread slightly ...

Quite, glamma, and easier to rely on others to provide breakfast for your children, in some cases. A lot of schools now are providing 'Breakfast Clubs' to ensure children from poorer families get a good breakfast, but what incentive is there for the parent/s to look after them properly if they can just opt out?

jack reminds me of when we went to dances in the 60s with a bottle of cherry b and cider mixed up in our handbags,but your mum's was more up market than ours

Not sure about that glammanana! Her ball gown was upmarket but I'm not so sure about the whisky. Probably the cheapest they could lay their hands on.

As for cherry b and cider. All I can say is YUK. But I love the image of the drinks being "mixed up" in your handbags. Has this mix up affected you for life?

We had a comparatively affluent household when I was young, but my mum's family had suffered during the depression and she was not an extravagant cook. Her great standby was soup so thick you could stand on it - stock made with a marrowbone which was then given to the dog. We always came home from school for lunch. She also made most of our clothes. During the war a man came round with a big suitcase full of remnants which were, I think, coupon free. She altered my cousins' clothes for us too. We were encouraged to use her sewing machine and although I loathed needlework lessons at school, I made summer dresses and knitted jumpers throughout my teens and beyond. When my sons were small, I made dungarees and knitted their sweaters until they rebelled and insisted on something more trendy.

Apparently I did all my teething on marrowbones. We didn't have a dog in our attic!

Is this not more a question about how much people value good cooking and good eating? I worked full time and so does my daughter (she also has a long commute). We all cook in our family, because we enjoy food and value the time spent sitting down to a meal together. I can honestly say that nothing I did in cookery lessons at school has been any use whatsoever. I think it is very sad that some people have forgotten how to cook, but I don't think it is just about poverty, more about attitudes.

jackyour mum sounds so glamourous,I think that now I would also say "yuk" to cherry b and cider but when you are a teenager most things alcholic taste good I think,as to a mixed up life well who knows I have done pretty well for myself but that didn't stop me from being a bit "away with the fairies" sometimes but that is just me ??

There is certain amount of expectation here. Germany does not provide free school dinners and in some schools there is no lunch provided to buy. The children bring sandwiches. The education dept maintains it is the parents responsibility to feed their children, not the state's.
That being so there is now in multi-cultural Berlin a meeting place for hungry children and they are being fed by volunteers, and they try to catch the children before school.
In Germany the normal breakfast is Müsli - not the fancy healthy crunchy but just oatflakes and milk with honey or sugar or cocoa. Brought up on that they love it and the oatflakes cost next to nothing in ALDI. 3 - 4 year olds can get their own breakfast and my GDs do, while their working mother is in the bathroom getting herself ready for work.