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The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

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nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 08:31:00

I hope it's OK to post this here. I'm sure Gransnet will move it if it's not but in view of all those estranged, cut off parents unable to understand why their adult children treat them like they do, this very well written post sums it up perfectly.
It was sent to me this morning. Obviously some AC have no choice but to keep their distance from abusive parents, we understand this. But this NC approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives.

' I am in the position that my estranged daughter is treating me like I'm toxic when I feel it's the other way around. We've been studying this for awhile now. Why are there so many adult children cutting off their families. These are things that we came up with. Something interesting: we've all noticed how our EC all do the same mean stuff and say the same mean things. It's like they're reading a script or like they all joined the same cult.
I have news for you. They are all reading a script. They did join the same cult.
What they are doing is called "Going No Contact". It's literally a scripted plan that they follow. It starts when they judge us as not just humans with whom they disagree, but "evil" because we don't see things their way. They complain online, and meet other complaining children who honestly believe, thanks to the self-esteem movement, that any time they were uncomfortable for a moment equals abuse. If their parents disagreed with them or made them do something that they didn't like or whacked their fresh asses when they talked back or refused to follow rules, they add this to their pile of justification. Lacking coping skills, they believe that anytime they are not happy, they have been wronged, and the person who dared to 'make' them feel bad is a Narcissist.
A Narcissist to them is what 'possessed' meant to our parents. The Narcissist is pure evil and a force to be feared and hated. They all bolster one another's justification of their interpretation of who we are. They swap war stories that are positively ridiculous, such as stories of the "evil narcissistic mother in law who wore a different dress than agreed upon to the wedding" or the "evil, narcissistic mother who took away all of their toys until their chores were done". I've seen both of those in these groups.
After justifying to themselves that they are RIGHT and their parents are EVIL NARCISSISTS, they begin plans to "Go No Contact". It is a systematic plan to discard the parents/grandparent, and turn the kids against grandparents. There are actual steps to this plan. They vary from group to group, but they are essentially all similar.
The groups talk a lot about setting boundaries, but what they call setting boundaries is just rude dictating, and setting their targets up to fail. Stuff like "I told my mother that she can come over between 12 and 1 on Sundays only. If she is one minute early or stays one minute late, that will be the end of her visits." Part of the plan is to NOT tell mother what she did wrong, just to enact the "consequence". They know that the targeted parent will try to rectify the situation. They react in a way that is illogical: refusing to answer questions, insisting that any apology is a manipulative lie and therefore is insincere, ordering parent out of their house, putting parents in that time out thing where they tell us not to contact them for a certain length of time, and then they will "review our request".
They post joyful stories of their parents reaction to losing grandkids or their parents pleas for an explanation. They cheer each other on and congratulate one another for cutting family off. Refusing to give any explanation is part of the plan. They call it Taking Your Power Back.
They claim that it's to protect themselves from the evil narcissists who are terrorizing them, but in reality, it's not about protection or healing. It's about power, control, and just being shitty. They don't know the difference between assertive and aggressive, and they think being arbitrary is the same as having boundaries.
Google "Going No Contact". You will find pages and pages of groups and instructions that will not surprisingly match exactly what our kids are doing.
I think this information can be very helpful. We can learn what they want us to do, so we can do the opposite.
I strongly urge every single person here to read up on "Going No Contact". It's like a map to navigate this territory. It even gets amusing sometimes, reading the steps and thinking "You're such a lemming". Who the hell would follow this crap.
They would, that's who'

MissAdventure Wed 08-Mar-17 08:53:57

Narcissism does seem to be a new buzz word.
A friend mentioned it to me when my fiance ended our relationship, so I looked online and found a whole new world, where 'grey rock technique' 'no contact', are recommended.
I found people online stating that now they knew what narcissistic personality disorder is, they have gone no contact with parents, siblings, and adult children.
Its a whole new phenomenon, (to me, anyway)

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 09:05:18

The effects on families diagnosing each other and then the online 'armchair experts' all to happy to insist they go NC! It's really hurting a lot of people. Including those who make themselves orphans by cutting themselves off.

rosesarered Wed 08-Mar-17 09:14:23

This is awful! The internet can be wonderful at times, but you do wonder if it is actually woth all the bad stuff that comes with it.

MawBroon Wed 08-Mar-17 09:15:42

Terrifying. My blood ran cold just reading it.

MissAdventure Wed 08-Mar-17 09:26:16

Its also recommended to cut off 'flying monkeys' who are relatives that may pass messages between family members - either unknowingly, or with malice - thus breaking 'no contact' which must be maintained at all costs.
In short, people are cutting off contact with whole sections of family and friends.

Ankers Wed 08-Mar-17 09:26:41

I realised all this was going on a few weeks ago, when I was talking with posters on the relationship threads. I asked a poster if there were groups about it. She said yes and posted links.

There is a whole language about it. I did consider asking gransnet to add several acronyms to its list, but thought I didnt want to encourage the language[not that that would stop it really].

I have seen narcissist stuff talked about on mumsnet for several years now. The whole subject seems to have gone to a whole new level.

And I am sorry to say, that sites like mumsnet[not that it is mumsnet's fault at all] only help people to group together in this way.

MissAdventure Wed 08-Mar-17 09:32:48

I found that I'm a co-dependant, who is suffering from cognitive dissonance, probably caused by being bought up by a narcissist, and I need to heal my inner child confused

Alima Wed 08-Mar-17 09:34:50

I must live in a bubble. I had no idea this sort of thing went on, I had thought the thread was about contactless bank cards. Horrible.

Ankers Wed 08-Mar-17 09:35:27

I had some long conversations with some of them. I suggested that even if they were "toxic" that a few minutes for the "toxic" person in a neutral place like a park would be beneficial. And to make things more safe if necessary, for the parent to take along someone else with them.
But I am not sure I made much progress. Though the posters were polite and listened.
I think some parents genuinely fear the "toxic" person. And in a few cases, some of their concerns might be genuine.

But I still maintain that a few minutes a week or whatever can be beneficial. Very beneficial. For the child as much as anyone else. For the parent. And for the "toxic" person.

Luckygirl Wed 08-Mar-17 09:40:38

I take a ,look at Mumsnet sometimes and the whole "going no contact" is a repeated theme. It makes for gloomy reading. The "children" do in the main seem to have strong grounds for keeping their parents (usually the mother is cited) away from their children, but, as always with these things, we only hear one side. To be fair, there are posters there who take a more rational and measured view and advise accordingly.

At the same time I have the strong impression that grandparents are part of the grandchild care scene far more than they were in my day. That is certainly true in our family; so it is not all gloom and doom.

MissAdventure Wed 08-Mar-17 09:43:07

There are countless YouTube videos on the subject, explaining how one should start 'no contact' the moment one realises a person is a narcissist, without giving an explanation or further communication.
Troubled relationships with partners are explained by saying that empaths or co-dependents are addicted to narcissistic relationships, bought about my childhood issues. Even if for me, who doesn't have any childhood issues, I would be urged to accept that as an absolute fact.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 09:50:18

The main problem is, and I've spent a lot of time researching it, is that while narcissism in it's raw form has always been around, it's now become a terrifying weapon to use against any family member who is perceived as being 'a problem'. Part of it has emerged as a direct result on the 1989 Children's Act where rights and power were handed to children placing above them the control of not only their parents but teachers and authority in general. There is now research identifying the current generation of 30 something year olds as being prone to depression because of their idealized perception of what their rights actually mean. Notwithstanding this they,not all but some, also have a very unrealistic expectation of not only life but their parents too. Meanwhile the Children's Act hasn't solved the problem of child abuse which was it's original intention.
So now we have parents cut off, AC miserable but blaming the scapegoat,(their parents) and we also have an army of online nuisances ranting the words GO NO CONTACT! What does it solve? Nothing.
Funnily enough, in all my research I was unable to find any advice that advocated how to communicate effectively with your family. On top of this, we also have a lot of highly damaged individuals, bloggers and youtubers I think they're called, now grabbing their fame slot online with podcasts telling the world about their experience with a narcissist, how to identify them, what their habits are and how to go.....yes, you've guessed it........NC. All well and good if these individuals were experienced, qualified experts in psychology but they're not. More often than not they are unhappy, angry, biased and very motivated to 'save others' by going online to say .......'look this is what happened to me! Save yourself, go NC'.
And this is where the trend begins. Very sad for a lot of families who actually love each other but only have a problem of not being able to communicate. I do wish the mumsnetters would think twice before becoming self appointed experts on what is a diagnosis that only a medically qualified person can provide. The reason being that despite how many Youtube video's they watch and blogs they read, no one can diagnose another person from a third party view. The day will come, as it has already, when posters will be sued for recklessly causing undue harm to another person's credibility especially where there's no basis for it.

MissAdventure Wed 08-Mar-17 10:05:10

I've also seen the words psychopath and sociopath used in conjunction with narcissistic personality disorder, so its easy to see how people get sucked into the idea that no contact has to be initiated, and the idea that they must not respond at all to the narcissist.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 10:22:16

Having run a support group for parents, it's clear to see that the problem of estrangement is now an epidemic. It's also the lazy way out of learning how to manage and work at a relationship. In some cases, if it's not all about them, it's simply not important. There is little or no respect for the parents or the sacrifices they've made.
Where adult children have grown up in highly dysfunctional and abusive situations, then NC is their only option and as far as I can see, it's a last resort after many attempts at trying to fix things. These AC have no such thing as a happy ending. Life for them can be and often is very traumatic and difficult especially on birthdays and Christmas.

For those AC who have had loving, caring parents and the relationship was previously good, but you've taken the advice from people you hardly know and gone NC, you really need to take a good look at yourselves and the impact you are having on your parents. Estrangement is a killer make no mistake. Parents have ended their lives or become ill and died.
If you can sit and eat your Christmas dinner knowing your parents are facing the bleakest of days, the problem isn't them.
If you can ignore birthdays, Mothers and Father's Day knowing the pain it will cause, the problem is not them.
If you can tell your children that your parents are bad people or you simply deny they exist, or if you think you can talk your way through explaining the benefits of cutting your child off from knowing it's own gene pool and tribal roots, the problem is not your parents.
If you can snub, ignore, ostracise, dish out the silent treatment on an ongoing basis, sulk and then act as though you are the victim, it's you that's the narcissist, not your parents.
If your parents loved you and did their best yet you can deal with knowing all these things above and yet still continue to hurt your them in this way, the problem isn't them.

polyester57 Wed 08-Mar-17 10:31:25

There are always two sides to every argument. Various other issues have cropped up over the years and become new "buzz" words, things which previously were unheard or untalked of, dyslexia, autism, attention deficiency spring to mind. This does not mean they do not exist. Several years ago after my father died I was faced with the prospect of looking after my mother, we had had limited contact over the years (her choice, not mine). I couldn´t fathom why it was that she never liked me and Í didn´t like her, so I did what one does nowadays and went online. I almost immediately found myself up to my neck in these various "narcissistic parent" websites that you describe. I read and read and in fact found great comfort in realizing that I was not the only one with this problem. I never felt tempted to join any of the sites and I admit that I found most of these (mostly American) way over the top. I read about the concept of "no contact" and thought wistfully that that´s what I should have done years ago, it was not an option for me as my mother by then was a frail bedridden woman, though still as toxic and manipulative as ever. Surely, we are all adults and can take from reading anything, whether it be a book or a website, anything that we like and leave the rest.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 10:38:36

Polyester57, I too come from a background of rejection from my mother. She hasn't spoken to me in many, many years. If I saw her out on the street today with nothing and no one, there's no way I could leave her to die out there.
I have a strong faith which helps, I'm not bitter and I don't blame my mum for her behaviour.
I guess this is where the difference lies. I like to think that despite everything, I'm still human and that as long as I have a heart that beats, I would not sink to a level that would make me behave without any compassion.

annsixty Wed 08-Mar-17 10:42:48

I could writes book on "the things my mother said" and "the things my mother did" and it would all be true,but cutting her out would never had occurred to me. I kept very little contact between her and my children unless I was there which still meant she saw a lot of them.
They would never stay with her anyway and when she got older they both said if we had her to live with us they would leave home. H and I would have been divorced anyway.
I looked after her from a distance until she died. As Nina said, the thought of holidays without her being there would have been unthinkable even though she would spoil it if she could.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 11:07:13

If you're going to look for advice online, which can be very helpful and enlightening, you should have a criteria for your own safety. Hopefully when we're older, we're a lot more discriminating but many younger people just don't have the instinct to work out fact from fiction. What's happening is that they're watching unqualified youtube videos and then making damning assumptions thinking it must all be true. HELP, that's my mother! Then they get permission to go NC from an angry mob on an online forum each with their own issues usually. The one's giving the advice don't strike me as the healthiest, most sane people to be dishing out what actions others should be taking.

The best way to source correct, intelligent information is to always look at who's written it. If it's by a PhD academic or someone who has letters after their name qualified and who's well trained in all levels of psychology, then that's the information that's likely to be more reliable. Anything else is just a third party account based on their own experience.

After this, it's also a good idea to think about the person you have problems with. Are they really an awful person? Or are there reasons for them being like they are? My mum was beaten black and blue by my father. She didn't like me because being the first born meant it's how she ended up with my father. She had an awful life for a long time. I can forgive her not feeling any warmth towards me. It's nearly crippled me emotionally at times but I'm glad that I'm not so demented and angry that I would cut her off. Not that I had a choice, she cut me off. Long time ago now.
For anyone else though, the best solution with a difficult parent is to just be kind to them at arms length. Don't try and hurt them by cutting them off. Instead of diagnosing them, which you're not qualified to do, read up on how to manage difficult relationships instead and see where it goes. The NC route should only be a last resort and in cases of violence and abuse, then it should be taken, I absolutely agree.

KatyK Wed 08-Mar-17 11:32:38

It's strange isn't it? My father was a violent, self-centred, abusive alcoholic who made his childrens lives a misery and left us all with various forms of anxiety/depression. It never occurred to me to cut him out of my life or not to try to help him in his last days.

Starlady Wed 08-Mar-17 11:33:32

Ok, I spent some time looking at the "Going No Contact" articles - not all of them, I admit - I'm astounded by how much there is out there on this subject!

So far, I haven't come across the word "evil" though I did see "sinister" in one article. But I did see "narcissist" a lot. TBF, I think some of the professional articles were intended for people who are dealing with true narcissists, while other articles, blogs, forums, etc. just use the word for anyone they are having trouble with.

I also noticed that a lot of the articles are about cutting off anyone you're having difficulty with, particularly an ex. But if you google "going no contact with parents," you'll find a whole slew of articles just about that. I had no idea!

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 11:45:57

The original narcissist articles were designed to help people identify and deal with their intimate partners and they are helpful in avoiding such people. Somehow, the lines have since blurred and we've now got AC diagnosing their parents and other parents with the same personality disorder.
However, from all my research it's often so they can come up with a credible reason or justification for cutting off a parent because they're either too lazy to invest in the relationship or they simply don't need it. All their emotional sustenance is met online.
To give you an example of a post I saw recently,
'Hate it when MIL comes round, I'VE never really liked her, she's always such a bitch. She tries to be nice but I know she's not genuine. I'LL let her come round one last time then I'LL have to decide if I want her to come again'.

I've typed references to the poster in capitals because this is what the post is about, the poster's lack of tolerance, inability to communicate with her MIL the posters irritability at her MIL even visiting and there's no reference to a husband so it doesn't even look as if he had an opinion.

The advice the poster was given was to cut MIL off. Not a lot of intelligence to be perfectly frank. Meanwhile it's devastating families and their communication.

Starlady Wed 08-Mar-17 11:59:22

But here's the good part. Now that see what's out there, we have more of an idea of what's going on. So if a parent has been co for the first time, and they read this stuff, they know it might just be a to (time out), a break their ac is taking to sort things out in their own head.

If a parent finds themselves blocked on fb, not receiving replies to voicemails, etc. then they would know, sadly, that their ac has gone nc. Ok, maybe they would sort of figure that out, anyway. But at least they would know it's part of a "script," as Nina says, and that trying to reestablish contact probably won't help.

They would also know that asking relatives or friends to intercede won't help, they'll just be seen as "flying monkeys." Also, now, it occurs to me that when ac/cil seem to be "cutting everyone out," it might be because of the flying monkey idea. Well, it might be if they're going nc one by one and only with people who try to intervene.

I don't know, but I think if someone went nc with me or I thought they might, this stuff would help me understand what was happening and know what to do or not do.

Also, about "narcissist" - Iv heard/seen that word applied to ac and cil, too, lately. Imo, it's really becoming overused.

Luckygirl Wed 08-Mar-17 12:07:08

I suspect that our inclination to just grin and bear it - to do the minimum for troublesome parents, but not to cut them off, is now old hat. And I do agree that sometimes the AC who are initiating these have unrealistic and idealistic expectations of what these relationships should be. I think our generation is more accepting of the fact that people are flawed and we have to take some of that on the chin.

I must admit it is a bit irritating to me when I hear tell of those GPs who are trying very hard to meet the unrealistic expectations of their AC as regards grandchild care. It contains such an inability to put themselves in another's position and seems very demanding and unimaginative.

eddiecat78 Wed 08-Mar-17 12:09:09

it`ll be interesting to see who looks after these "chidren" if they are in need in the future and have previously cut off so mny people at the slightest provocation

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 12:26:07

Starlady, what usually happens is that a parent will only be 'allowed back' if they can meet a long list of impossible criteria laid down by the AC. If they are allowed back, but then fail to jump high enough, they are soon cut off again.
Who knew eh? In my generation and I'm in my 50's, we would never even of dreamed of laying down such laws to our parents. Respect was key to the survival of the relationship. The introduction of the 1989 Children Act changed the power balance turning the parent/child relationship into a slave/master relationship, ie 'do as I tell you or I'll report you for child abuse'.
In our AC's case, it's now 'do as I tell you or I'll banish you forever. Oh and by the way, if I tell everyone you're an evil narcissist, it gives me a way out so that I appear squeaky clean while you look an absolute bastard'.
There are plenty of stories where cut off parents have gone back, not measured up then been cut off agan and when they've protested, the AC have warned then that if they say anything, they will accuse then of being a 'threat' to the grandchildren.
There is now a recommendation out by the British Institute of Psychiatry advising parents, (for a change parents are not being blamed) on how to deal with bullying AC.

What does that say????

A lot of parents will not go back, the bridges have been burned so in answer to the question...'what happens when our AC are older and have no one'? Well, all I can think of is that it won't be a fortunate situation.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 12:29:21

This NC issue appears to only be prevalent in the West. It doesn't seem to happen so much in Europe where family ties and traditions are uphelp. Nor in the Eastern countries however we know in some cultures this is due to oppression. But in countries like Italy, Greece and France, it seems to be rare.

annsixty Wed 08-Mar-17 12:46:45

Also if they ever regret their actions later in life or are they so devoid of normal human feelings that they can only be right.

NanaandGrampy Wed 08-Mar-17 13:02:40

Heartbreaking.

That's the only word I could use after I read the opening post.

And thankful that I have 'sane' children .

eddiecat78 Wed 08-Mar-17 13:16:17

In a few years time are these adult children going to be encouraged to cut off their own children when they start being a bit annoying? (We all know how challenging teenagers can be)

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 14:36:08

Eddiecat, the pattern seems to repeat itself with estrangement following on into the next generation. One clinical theory for NC comes from an idea that to cease all contact with a family means that the next generation will be able to escape generational patterns of learned behaviour.
Sounds good in theory. They didn't mention that we can't escape our genes though so if an offspring is characteristically matched to one of his/her parents, the patterns could be reproduced regardless. It's like running away to a desert island to escape all the madness. The madness goes with you because our thoughts are the madness.
However, new thinking does suggest that changing our environment can produce change at cellular level so there may be some truth in the idea but only on an evolutionary scale, not overnight.

In my interviews with cut off parents, many said they would not have their AC back. This was often after several years of the devastated parents begging and pleading for a reconciliation only to be repeatedly ignored. Meanwhile these same AC appeared to enjoy rubbing salt in the wounds by demonstrating immature behaviour designed to hurt their parents even further. Such as posting photos at times like Christmas of family getogethers knowing the parents would see them.
After years of being cut off and being deprived of knowing their grandchildren, most parents were unable to see a way back after such hurt. Wills had been changed and other decsions taken to sever the bond completely. mostly it would seem because they felt they needed to protect and preserve themselves and that what had been done could not be undone.

Norah Wed 08-Mar-17 15:10:53

There do seem to be a lot of articles. Some valid points and some drivel. What is a flying monkey?

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 15:22:26

Norah, a flying monkey is someone who takes the side of the narcissist and will carry out instructions or act on their behalf, to further undermine and hurt the victim. It's another term for jumping on the bandwagon and joining in the fight.
Basically the narcissist will probably have got in first with a believable story to gain the flying monkey's sympathy. Not being that bright (usually), they will believe every word then do the narcissists bidding.

Minty Wed 08-Mar-17 15:24:13

I know that we all question relentlessly as to how this can possibly have happened, and yes in the early days you do spend hours googling and researching, maybe it helps some people to read all of this stuff, but I suspect many grandparents find this sort of read unhelpful.
For me, I know that I can't change the situation, I have to protect myself and my family, and to surround myself with those that do love and care about me.
For grandparents who are struggling everyday with this grief, find reading this sort of poison the very last straw.
We need to think very carefully, grandparents are feeling despair and terrible sadness, seeing this in the written word is in my view very damaging, to those who are not knowing how to face life without their EC and EGC in their lives.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 15:40:27

Minty, it's my experience that posts like the one above helps a lot of grandparents because it let's them see that they're not alone. There are others going through the same experience. It sums up the whole thing so that others can say 'yeeessss! that's exactly how it is for me'. In doing so it validates them and helps to feel less isolated. I know this from running groups and talking to many estranged parents.
I do agree with you that it's important to just count your blessings and enjoy those people you have around you.

The link below is one of the most destructive and guilty culprits of why we are experiencing so much damage and impact in our families. I had to hunt around for any kind of authority or qualified, expert input. In the end I found the About Us page right at the bottom. The person responsible for all the content admits she has no qualifications to be offering such information. Yet it's one of the first links that comes up when googling narcissiscm.

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/danu-morrigan-about-me/

KatyK Wed 08-Mar-17 16:20:00

Presumably they are cutting their families out of their lives when they no longer need them for childcare or financial assistance?

Ana Wed 08-Mar-17 16:25:00

No, that's not the case KatyK. Quite often the parents have fallen short in the eyes of their children with regard to those things.

KatyK Wed 08-Mar-17 16:35:44

Oh I see Ana What a shame. I'm sure most parents do their best, it's all we can do really.

polyester57 Wed 08-Mar-17 16:43:44

Nina1959, I can´t help but think that you yourself have been taken in by this woman, Danu Morrigan (whose real name apparently is Tracy Culleton), which is why you feel the need to expose her on GN. Fair enough. When I first started my internet search, her site was the first that came up and I found a lot of the stuff helpful, she does say she is not a professional. When it came to her urging to subscribe to her website I withdrew immediately, I just never, ever, do that, end of story.

NfkDumpling Wed 08-Mar-17 16:49:25

I suspose I was guilty of NC when I had my first DD. MiL tried to take over, tell us what to do and wouldn't back off. Blazing row with DH and neither would apologise or back down. Three years later and the birth or our DS (DD2 was born inbetween but failed to heal the rift) and they made up.

BUT contact had indirectly been maintained through my DM so the door was there to be opened. If anything it had always been ajar but DH and his DM were stubborn people. After the rift was healed life went on as normal. We didn't set any boundaries or make lists of rules - but MiL was a tiny bit more careful about giving advise! (But not a lot!)

I fear these days the door is often bricked up.

Luckylegs9 Wed 08-Mar-17 16:54:48

I never realised that this went on, my own daughter has gone no contact. There is no excuse. I miss the girl she was, not this selfish person. What kind of message do they send out to our grandchildren, if something doesn't go exactly the way you want it, don't talk about it sensibly just cut of contact, with everyone that doesn't think the way you do. I am sure friends and employers etc, will make short shift of that attitude. Let them get on with it. It's the children I feel so sorry for,maybe one day they will wonder why mom has this list of people that doesn't come up to scratch, they may well find themselves ostracised.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 17:13:43

Polyester57, not at all. She showed up as part of my research as one of the main influences out there online. Further inspection reveals that she's offers herself as a coach and there are other fee hiking services she's offers.
My concern is that she's set herself up as a self appointed expert giving a lot of personally experienced information as her own definition of what makes up the character of a narcissist. People looking for guidance are then using her as a reference point to diagnose their own family situation which I believe is contributing to the huge problem of family estrangement.
Many AC have said it in their own posts, 'I'm almost there, I just want the permission to cut my parents off completely. Then I'm freeeeeee!
What a wake up call they're going to get in their mid years.
Meanwhile people like Danu are able to lure in the sheep and the fees.

Fairydoll2030 Wed 08-Mar-17 17:57:51

Well, I hope 'Danu Morrigan' shares the royalties from her book(s) with her mother - if she's still alive. After all, no narcissistic mother - no books.

She points out that her mother doesn't have all the narcissistic traits but has some, such as lack of empathy and 'all about her'. These traits aren't that uncommon. It used to be called 'selfish'. But hey, give it a modern label and you can make mega bucks.

moonbeames Wed 08-Mar-17 18:44:58

This post has been very informative, I had no idea that there were "going no contact" sites. I will have a look shortly at what they are. Our family have a son who is very difficult and has been for some years. We have bent over backwards for him on many, many occasions but he has brought us nothing but grief and anxiety. A recent situation occurred over the holidays where we called him out on his behavior so he has adopted the "going no contact." We have put out the olive branch a number of times but to no avail.
But a backlash has occurred that he might not have factored in with his plan. Initially it was very distressing but now as time has gone on it has been very peaceful without all the drama's and life is now really happy and peaceful. We are enjoying each day now together, a bonus really.

nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 19:00:36

Moonnbeames, it does backfire. Parents are very sad and wounded for a while but much like a bereavement, many of them grieve for a while then eventually rebuild their lives and actually arrive at a point where you're at. They find that they no longer feel like they're walking on eggshells or having to jump through hoops trying to reach the ever higher expectations.
I've read a lot of emails from parents who have said there's no going back because they've had enough of the blame game, being made to feel guilty for imagined slights, frightened to read their emails and being held to ransom over grandchildren. Eventually some of them do adapt and yes, they choose to live without all the drama. It's not what they hoped for or expected but they've overcome it and just cut the umbilical cord.
Things can reach the point of no return but for the parents it can be a liberating time if they have other people and things to enjoy.
I'm glad you've found a peaceful option.

MrsPeel Wed 08-Mar-17 19:39:34

I have read the posts and must admit I'm not understanding a lot of it (sorry). But adult children cutting parents (one or both) out of their lives is nothing new. It's just got a new name and is more 'out there' because if the Internet.

For instance I cut my father out if my life aged 12 when he went to prisoin. My siblings still saw him secretly - meaning I knew but they respected my wishes. My brother rang me the morning my father died. I have no regrets.

My sister no contacted my mum when she left home at 16. She saw her at my instigation when mum was 70. There were a few phone calls until mum died aged 82. I persuaded mum to change her will to include my sister.

My elder brother is no cintact with me blanking me to my face at my nieces birthday party. Suits me fine.

Am I hard probably I like to think I'm stoic. I'm probably controlling. As I said earlier I have no regrets.

westerlywind Wed 08-Mar-17 20:51:34

I have read this and other threads with great interest because I am in the no contact club too. One DC would come and go with contact depending on what she needed at that particular time. This has gone on for over 16 years. Another DC knows what happened and yet is doing the same thing.
I do not want to take part in DGC being used as a stick to beat the grandparent. I think it is a form of abuse of the young children as well as the older folks.
I am constantly put down and generally criticised at great length. I also see the DGC being verbally abused along similar lines to me. I saw the face of a DGC fall as they were berated. I have seen other things which I am unhappy about such as a child being told off for apparently saying something to or about a DP (not the true parent). The child had not said anything but the parent had a good scream at the child. Another time a DGC announced a need for a toilet and was told to wait. I would have taken the DGC out of sight but the parent refused to do this.
If these young parents are being nasty and abusive to us the Grandparents, who are adults with their own resources and can escape, can we really trust that they are not being as horrible to the DGC?
I know DGC were in trouble told SS was not believed, it all came out eventually. I don't have faith in SS. I was physically abused and went to hospital who sent out SS. I said that I need effective help that is instantly available and would not cause at further harm to me.
It is not an easy road. NO matter what we do or how much money we through at the young mums (and dads) we are still not going to be good enough.
I have seen posts elsewhere about the expectations of inheritance. I have seen posts in both places about unpaid childminding. We are expected to do and give and just accept that. I fully intend to SKI, Spend Kids Inheritance. I need to do it so that I can have a peaceful life. Loneliness is nothing in comparison to being afraid of what the DCs will do next, or being ashamed of their conduct.
To today's young people my parents being strict and wanting me to be my best would probably come under Child Abuse in their world but to me it was security.
I don't know what the answer it but I will read all I can.

polyester57 Wed 08-Mar-17 21:54:19

Goodness, this is all getting a bit out of hand. Children learn by example. If you were kind to your parents, your children will most likely be kind to you.

westerlywind Wed 08-Mar-17 22:05:07

I can not agree with your view polyester57.
I was always kind to my parents and did all I could for both of them to the last moment of their lives. I was totally involved with my parents and their care when they got old and ill. I was the official government paid unqualified carer as I was paid Carer's Allowance. I was Power of Attorney and Executrix for both. I certainly don't think my DCs have followed my example. I also defended my DCs to the hilt, did crazy dangerous things to help them.
The only thing that they claim to have learned from me and my parents was the work ethic. I worked part time as well as being parent to my DCs and Carer to parents.
They had fee paying education etc same as I had. I certainly never raised my voice to my parents and definitely never laid a hand on them violently.
My children may have followed some genetic code but their conduct is not mine.

polyester57 Wed 08-Mar-17 22:29:27

I have never applied for Carer´s Allowancem nor been Power of Attorney or anything of the kind. My idea was that I did not want to be anything like my mother. I have never offered advice to my daughter unless asked for it, I have never gone into a huff if she did not take my advice, I have offered help in as far as I was able to give it, I have never had keys to her house and have never gone into it without her knowledge, I have never tried to undermine her upbringing of her children, I have never lied about my state of health to get attention, I have never gauged the love of my children by the number of mother´s day cards I have received, etc., etc.

westerlywind Wed 08-Mar-17 22:55:02

I was devoted to my family and as a result I must have shown my worth to my elders for them to make me PoA and Executrix.
I have keys for DCs' houses but never enter without their knowledge and consent even if I was already told if you get there before me just go in. If not there I phone to say I am in the street. They have keys to my house.
I do not go into a huff when they don't take my advice. I rarely give advice, that is the road to trouble.
I do not lie about my state of health, the facts are given by those who are qualified and employed by the NHS. I had never heard of a condition I have so could not have made it up.
I do not care about any sort of card and don't judge on their arrival or not.
It seems that I was very lucky to have such decent if strict parents. There will never be the likes of that generation ever again. I know I do not come up to their mark but I do my best all round

MrsPeel Thu 09-Mar-17 07:00:31

I agree with you Polyester57 100%

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 07:37:00

Every generation of parents go through trials and life circumstances they can't change, control or predict. In my generation and generations before, we were able to mostly accept that our parents were a product of their environment, couldn't always help themselves and were at the mercy of their own limitations. Obviously I'm referring to situations were abuse wasn't included. Back then smacking wasn't deemed abuse.

In this sense, we learned acceptance and forgiveness of how things were. Today, our children not only blame us for the same things, but they disown us and cut us off. This fails to teach the very human art of wisdom, forgiveness, compassion and tolerance.
How this all pans out for the future is a worrying scenario because when they cut us off, they also cut themselves off.
Some of us pick ourselves up, realise the new freedom we've been given and ride off into the sunset spending the inheritance as we go.
Others go into a decline feeling every inch the scapegoat cast out into the desert.

The popular buzz word, narcissism, actually stems from an earlier buzz word Machiavellian which implies traits of deception and cunning while presenting a butter wouldn't melt face to the world. Largely it was used in politics while lawyers are rated as having the highest scores of Hi Mach tendencies. Lo Machs are now described as empaths who obviously get sucked in, used and abused by Hi Machs.
So narcissists today are the machiavellians of yesterday. Excellent manipulators and truth alienators. We all need to be more aware of these tendencies in our generation today.

moonbeames Thu 09-Mar-17 08:10:41

Polyester57 that is really good for you and good on you. Sometimes however there might come a time in other peoples lives like in our situation. When a son pulls the "no contact" card there is an initial grieving hurtful period but then it
backfires and its very peaceful and very happy without all the drama and pain. Bliss!

Azie09 Thu 09-Mar-17 08:27:41

I was talking to someone yesterday whose father had been captured at Dunkirk and then sent to a camp in Siberia. He suffered terribly and was always withdrawn and slightly eccentric thereafter. It made us think about the effects of the two World Wars and how so many people must have been traumatised and so not able to function with any kind of normality.
I think a lot of the current generation have grown up in an era of comparative peace and plenty. I also think that child centred period of the 1990s where self esteem was all and children were absurdly praised eg., those tedious primary school assemblies where Johnny was clapped for getting 'a' the right way round or actually finishing his work in class, were a route to trouble. Many children were given a massive sense of entitlement as a result of doing very little and certainly encouraged to disrespect teachers and parents. So much of this no contact behaviour is desperately selfish. I'm afraid hard times are ahead for the world and they'll learn the hard way. Such a shame but you/we will get our reward in heaven for doing the best we could. flowers

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 08:49:25

Azie09, I have a friend who was the CEO of child protection. She admits the 1989 Children Act set in motion a period of irreversible doctrine that tore more families apart than it helped. In particular it drove grandparents out of the loop as a potential resource for caring for children under the state.
Today we are seeing the sad results of the 90's as you say. No gratitude or wider view. It's all about rights and entitlement.

polyester57 Thu 09-Mar-17 09:24:15

Azie09, although I do agree with you to an extent, I beg to differ. My mother´s problem was exactly that she had a dreadful, traumatic childhood, her own mother died of tuberculosis in 1933, when my mother was 4, and she was probably made to feel that it was her fault. "If you run around and make noise and don´t eat your greens, your mother will be sad and she will die." There were no child psychologists at the time. We tend to have the idea (the Cinderella story?) that if someone has had it difficult, they will then rise up and be all the better for it. Wrong! Children need to be unconditionally loved and be told it.

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 09:58:33

Polyester57, I suspect that you might be feeling a bit brow beaten by this thread. I really do understand where you're coming from. Let me reassure you though that there is a dividing line between those AC who had had to cut off a parent to save themselves from the madness, or the abuse or whatever. To those AC who have simply opted to cut parents off who were previously OK but they've been cut off as a result of a current trend. For example, parents can't lend money or childmind, or another seemingly small thing like a rift so that's it, end of. Your situation is completely different and you don't have to defend yourself.
As you admit though, your mum had a tough time as a child herself and help wasn't available so it sounds as though she hasn't been able to grow or recover. This must help you feel a but more forgiving even if it doesn't lessen your own pain.
You could now get help to help you get a better perspective on your own future from here couldn't you?

RedheadedMommy Thu 09-Mar-17 09:59:54

What I've noticed, as a child from the 90s is mental health and mental abuse is talked about a lot more now.
Mental health when my parents and grandparents were younger was embarrassing. It wasn't talked about, you just got on with it. There must of been so many people suffering in silence and not know what was wrong with them.
When I had PND I went to my nans and had a bit of a breakdown. Her friend was there too. They made me a cup of tea and we had a chat. They BOTH said (women who were in their 70s) that they had the same thing as me but 'we didn't talk about it then' We had such a long talk and it was like after all those years they could talk about it, got it off their chest and spoke to people who was in the same boat.

Mental abuse is the same, it's a well known form of abuse now.

Both of those things are everywhere. You're encouraged to talk about it to a cousellor, friend or gp, it's all over the Internet, on the TV, signs to look out for. The stigma is dying. Thank God.

If a parent, back then, had either a mental illness left untreated or was in fact mentally abusing their child. Now, those children have grown up, they are seeing these signs and they know that it's not OK they don't have to deal with it or tolerate it. Maybe it's caused them to have a mental illness too? Depression, anxiety or whatever and for them, it's best to cut contact because mentally they can't deal with it.

I'm not saying this is everyone, or this is aimed at anyone. It's just a different side of the coin.

RedheadedMommy Thu 09-Mar-17 10:04:41

'To those AC who have simply opted to cut parents off who were previously OK but they've been cut off as a result of a current trend. For example, parents can't lend money or childmind, or another seemingly small thing like a rift so that's it, end of. '

OK I 100% agree with that statement. This is ridiculous but unfortunately I do understand and beleive there are people like that who are that entitled.
It does give people who have had a rubbish time a bad name and tars everyone with the same brush.

Ankers Thu 09-Mar-17 10:12:38

Some good posts RedheadedMommy.
But I do have to disagree with one part.

^it's not OK they don't have to deal with it or tolerate it.

But they do have to deal with it.
Cutting someone off is not really dealing with it.

It is like when someone doesnt like driving very much. Not driving, while dealing with the initial problem, actually creates a whole set of new ones.

Maybe it's caused them to have a mental illness too? Depression, anxiety or whatever and for them, it's best to cut contact because mentally they can't deal with it.

I could be wrong, but I dont think that probably what you would call my generation are any more difficult than they used to be to cope with?

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 10:13:50

RedheadMommy, this is the category I'm talking about, those who cut off parents on a whim because they don't measure upto expectation. This is now a trend bolstered by the NC community.

You make good points and I agree with you completely. I can see mental health becoming a huge problem for our AC because they've been taught to expect a Utopian or idealised style of life when in fact this is far from realistic as past generations well know. It's also well documented that second and third generations that grow up in peace time tend to be more liberated, narcisstic and cavalier bordering on stupid even because they've not suffered loss, hardship or gone without. But then when life does bite them, as it surely will, they have no coping skills, armour or rainy day protection. If they'be burned their bridges with their parents and family, this is also contributing to mental health issues.

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 10:19:23

Ankers, good point. When you cut someone off, unless it's for very good reasons such as they are abusive and a threat, (wise move because self protection is vital) then you are the one with the inability to communicate.
The silent treatment is now seen as passive rage, a weapon of the alienator and a form of bullying used by those with NLP, otherwise known as narcissitic personality disorder.
Wherever we can, and as long as it's safe, we need to start seeing difficult relationships as ways to improve our own skills.
Clearly, and I want to make this very clear, this does not mean going back to a violent, mentally or physically abusive situation. In this case, you've no option but to stay at a safe distance.

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 10:31:58

Thinking about it, mental health didn't get much interest until the 1960's when Aaron T Beck turned popular Freudian theory on it's head when he discovered that a person was affected by their own thoughts, not their external environment. This is when CBT (cognative behavioural therapy) was introduced. This was based on thought = feeling= behaviour. In other words, whatever we thought made us feel pain or another emotion and this resulted in our behaviour. So this was the start which was just after the war ended. And yet it's only really started to become well known and talked about. So our parents and their parents previously would have had no help whatsoever in being able to deal with their own trauma and childhood issues like we have today.
In this sense, and excluding the obvious cases of abuse, the NC rule being proffered, leaves no room for understanding or relating to a familial relationship. It simply damages it further.

polyester57 Thu 09-Mar-17 10:59:20

Nina1959, I am not browbeaten. Are you Danu Morrigan in diguise?

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 11:17:09

Polyester57, I can't imagine why you'd think that. I'm in the UK for a start. I'm sorry if your feathers are ruffled in any way but I think I've been more than clear about my own agenda.

Azie09 Thu 09-Mar-17 13:13:23

polyester57 I wouldn't entirety disagree with your points but I would ask what loving unconditionally really means. I think it means loving the child whilst not accepting bad behaviour, it means firm boundaries not indulgence, it means having expectations and teaching that others, parents included, are people too. I think we all experienced times we didn't feel loved as children, some more than others, sometimes it was because we didn't get bought what we wanted or because a parent shouted or even beat us. Maybe unconditional love is something that a mature person sees going both ways, our parents did the best they could with what they had. Accepting that and moving on without cutting off is called growing up.

RedheadedMommy Thu 09-Mar-17 13:28:33

Sorry I worded that wrong. By 'deal with' I mean they don't have to keep going back to it, keep having to deal with it drip drip dripping into them.
Of course talking about it is the number 1 solution but I've said before, you can't talk to someone who doesn't listen.
My DH has ignored texts from his mom because she doesn't listen. He has put his side. But it's wrong. Her side is right and the only valid one. And then it starts again. It wasn't always like that, we did try to resolve things but it was hopeless which is a shame.

I can't understand the mentality of adults who cut off their parents because they didn't get their own way regarding money or childcare. It takes entitled to a whole new level.
There was a thread about a lady who had FIVE of her grandchildren for a weekend (or something like that) and the lady couldn't cope. I'm almost 30 and I don't think i could with FIVE children for a day, nevermind a whole weekend. She spoke to her daughter and it didn't go well. That's the attitude I don't understand. It must be heartbreaking to feel like a bank and babysitter.

MIL had ignored DH for weeks when he couldn't lend her money or when she didn't get her own way. It made DH anxious and he felt guilty for not being able to do it. He felt like he'd done something wrong, which is manipulation isn't it?
I don't think it's a generation thing. I don't understand it. Is it something from childhood? Family life? Or feel like they own that person?

Luckylegs9 Thu 09-Mar-17 13:34:51

DanuMorrigan, not her real name, she hasn't the courage to use it. I read her articles and what a self pitying load of rubbish it is. Hope she is happy with the money made of the sales of this book, hopefully her own children will see her for the self centred person she is, unable to see the pain that her enabling brings to her children and the parents that do not measure up to her precise criteria. The gullible people that subscribe to her views to rid themselves of the problem of having relationships with anyone that has not made them the centre of their bigoted universe is mind boggling in its stupidity. I just wish I had realized years ago that this was what my daughter did to me, that she had an agenda and I was a problem she didn't need, as were all the family, I would have saved a lot of heartache and kept my pride, it made me feel a complete failure and looking for imaginary faults I might have made.

Luckylegs9 Thu 09-Mar-17 13:36:15

Faults was a bad example, it should have been errors.

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 14:17:24

Luckylegs9 there are a lot of complaints about Danu Morrigan and the credibility of her information. I won't post the links because they are angry and negative. But they are there on google. She has an influence on the minds of many people searching for answers and she is charging and making money out of it.

GrannyRainbow Thu 09-Mar-17 15:05:57

Has this woman ever been outed in the popular press Nina? I think it would be a good idea to contact a journalist from one of the tabloids. Everything I'm reading about her screams cult. One need look no further than the self aggrandising names she's chosen for herself, to get an insight into the woman.

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 16:14:12

GrannyRainbow, I don't know. She's a damaged person that's self appointed herself as a caretaker for others who see themselves as damaged. And then done more damage on top of the damage.
I do know of one person who diagnosed her mother from that site and then cut her off deciding that her mum's entire failings related to what she'd read on the site and blog. She was 32 and blamed her mum for various things, one complaint was that when she was a child her mum had been emotionally unavailable. What she didn't know was that her mum had had a lot of treatment for cancer when she was a little girl but not told her so that she didn't get frightened. She still doesn't speak to her. It's very sad to find that unregulated individuals can gain from others misery.

Azie09 Thu 09-Mar-17 16:20:07

One of the downsides of the Internet is that it's given the power to influence to all sorts of people with their own axe to grind and there's no control. I can imagine the Daily Mail would run a story about this woman.

Ana Thu 09-Mar-17 16:28:56

Well, that might be helpful if it exposed her as the rather dubious character she seems to be and let some air into what seems to be a semi-secret society...

nina1959 Thu 09-Mar-17 16:47:17

Here's a similar blog.site. I haven't read through it all but so far what I can make out is that -

she's very angry with her parents, advises complete cut off, has cut them off for the last decade, is broke, still angry, an orphan, life sucks, it's her parents fault that she had to quit college, (no funds because she's not speaking to her parents)
So, if she's cut them off, why would they pay for college? It seems she's not any happier.

orphansurvivalguide.com/10-things-estranged-adult-children-are-tired-of-hearing/

Starlady Thu 09-Mar-17 18:21:30

Rereading the op, I can actually see where some boundaries might seem like "dictating" to a gp but perfectly okay to an ac. For example, ac may feel they have the right to let the gp know what day and time is good for gp to come over and, frankly, they do. But it might appear to be dictatorial to a gp who expects to be able to come over whenever they want or who let their own parents and pils come over more often. Of course, if it's as rigid as in the example, then, yes, I think that's dictatorial. Iv never known anyone in real life who was that rigid, but maybe some people are.

I can also see why some ac might not want to explain a boundary to a gp if the gp tends to question a lot and argue. To use the visiting example again, maybe gp asks to come over and see the gc and ac says that Sunday is the only available day. The gp asks why and ac says they're booked up other days. Then gp asks "With what?" and ac mentions plans with friends (with kids)or whatever. Then gp argues that family should be more important than friends or that they would really rather come over on Saturday and are willing to come when the activity with the friends is over. And on and on. I'm not saying all gps do that, I certainly don't. But if a gp does, then it's clear why the might not want to even start that conversation.

I'm not accusing anyone here of ever having argues like that either. Just trying to think of why some ac might not feel comfortable about explaining.

Starlady Thu 09-Mar-17 18:26:18

As for Danu Morigan, I think some of her ideas are way out there. But she does admit that she's not a professional, etc. I just see her as someone sharing her own experience and what she did about it. Very similar to what people often do here when advising each other. It seems to me it's up to the person reading to know enough to take things with a grain or two of salt and understand that they're not getting professional advice.

Starlady Thu 09-Mar-17 18:34:05

My big problem with the second blog linked is that the writer needs to realize that if she tells her situation to strangers, they are going to ask questions. That's normal, imo. That's what people do on sites like this and irl. If she doesn't want to discuss it, then she shouldn't bring it up or she should just say she doesn't feel comfortable discussing it and change the subject.

If she feels that her parents were bad enough to need to be co and that she is a "stronger, better person" (I think those are the words, I'm not looking right at it) for it, that's her perspective and no one can change it. But she can't expect just to lay this on people and then have it magically go away.

Cindi Fri 10-Mar-17 02:32:23

Your premise regarding the estrangement sites is very interesting. Nina, espousing an EP's view and solution is informative. "How this all pans out for the future is a worrying scenario because when they cut us off, they also cut themselves off. Some of us pick ourselves up, realise the new freedom we've been given and ride off into the sunset spending the inheritance as we go."

Go forth joyfully! Spend on a bucket list without guilt. Accordingly, don't imagine that AC care; 99.99% of AC want their parents spending on a joyful retirement.

nina1959 Fri 10-Mar-17 07:09:13

I agree Cindi. We can't undo their choices and we shouldn't have to endure the results of those choices to the extent it's an ongoing burden of grief.

Thanks for the PM's by the way. The best way to find a support group is to type in 'parents estranged from adult children. You'll see there are several FB groups and pages.
The best are the closed groups and then some offer access to secret support groups. These are better because you can share your feelings with other parents in total privacy. But just having a read of what other parents are saying will show that you're not alone.
There is also a group primarily for estranged adult children called Standalone. This, I think, offers support and help for those EC that have had no option but to cut themselves off from abusive family.
I hope I've provided options for all sides here.

Norah Fri 10-Mar-17 08:05:35

A bit from your second link: "Being a parent is a choice, and so is being someone’s child. A child is not property. They do not owe you anything. Family should not be about obligation."

I agree, I don't want to be owed or be an obligation to my children.

NfkDumpling Fri 10-Mar-17 13:22:13

I just Googled Narcisstic Mother - and goodness - that was my mum! But, I loved her and although I was severely lacking in confidence in my early teens, because of her I became a stronger, independent person. I'm glad I never NC'ed her!

87RefinedBulbasir Sat 18-Nov-17 16:21:32

Message deleted by Gransnet.

annsixty Sat 18-Nov-17 16:26:14

Not much to say to that.
I pity you and your sad life.

Cherrytree59 Sat 18-Nov-17 17:34:25

Is counseling an option?

Madgran77 Sat 18-Nov-17 17:39:44

87refinedbulbasir dear me, you really do things seem to see things simplistically don't you - with a big dose of assumption built in!!

Violetfloss Sat 18-Nov-17 17:46:15

87RefinedBulbasir

Well done hmm You have just tarnished everyone who has gone No Contact with the same brush.

Norah Sat 18-Nov-17 18:39:28

A little self reflection might help.

ninathenana Sat 18-Nov-17 18:53:17

Sad person

Christinefrance Sat 18-Nov-17 19:15:35

Think this thread is beyond any help the average GNetter can give. These people need professional help.
It's so sad that people get sucked into all this crap pseudo psych rubbish.

Luckylegs9 Sat 18-Nov-17 19:47:58

Why resurrect a 8 month old post 87,. You really do need professional help. Your mother must have been a saint.

Chewbacca Sat 18-Nov-17 19:57:53

Sad to think the someone like 87Refined is wandering around nursing such deep grievances and has no one to share them with, except here. I pity her.

M0nica Sat 18-Nov-17 20:04:39

Surely this the outcome of what can lazily be called the 'snowflake' upbringing.

We have a generation of young people coming to adult life now, a significant proportion of whom have been brought up in a bubble where they have never challenged but always protected from all life's little difficulties. They have been encouraged to believe that no one should ever argue with them, contradict them or suggest that they are not always right.

Teachers give them the impression that high exam marks are a reward for working hard, rather than having command of your subject or ability.

When they come out of this bubble into the real world of competition, effort and adversity. They cannot cope so look for someone to blame. And of course the best thing to do is blame your parents.

There was actually a letter in the DM this week from a young woman saying that 'if my generation are such 'snowflakes' it is our parents fault and it is their responsibility to sort our problems out'

Jalima1108 Sat 18-Nov-17 20:53:00

87 I do hope you are receiving the help that you so obviously need.
sad

M0nica Sat 18-Nov-17 20:59:57

Sorry, didn't realise how old this thread was.

Bathsheba Sat 18-Nov-17 21:15:49

'if my generation are such 'snowflakes' it is our parents fault and it is their responsibility to sort our problems out'

If that wasn't so worrying, it would be downright hilarious. Actually it is downright hilarious - can this idiot really not see the irony of what she is saying?

Eloethan Sat 18-Nov-17 23:36:51

This is the first time I've heard that this "going no contact" idea has organised groups promoting it.

I'm sure there must be circumstances so extreme that sometimes it is the only way for a person to protect himself/herself from a toxic relationship.

However, in the way that many people who have quirky little ways now refer to themselves as "OCD" (when true obsessive-compulsive disorder is a terribly distressing and life-changing condition), it seems that labels like "narcissism" or "personality disorder" are being used too liberally.

I don't agree with an opinion expressed earlier in the thread that if a person has set a good example in treating their own parents properly this would not happen to them. I think that perhaps in some cases children have been so indulged that if parents suddenly put their foot down their children feel they have been ill-treated and thus entitled to threaten to break off contact. I think there have been several very sad examples of this on Gransnet.

That is not to deny that there are people who have been very damaged by emotional or physical abuse in their childhood. In such circumstances I think it is quite understandable, and probably advisable, that at least some distance is maintained.

Yogagirl Sun 19-Nov-17 18:54:25

Thanks for posting that Nina1959 Very interesting, and sad! No time to read other posts now, but I will ..

Jalima1108 Sun 19-Nov-17 19:48:13

'if my generation are such 'snowflakes' it is our parents fault and it is their responsibility to sort our problems out'

If that wasn't so worrying, it would be downright hilarious. Actually it is downright hilarious - can this idiot really not see the irony of what she is saying?

There is a word for this kind of stupidity Bathsheba and I can't think of it (I must be stupid grin)

It is abrogating one's own personal responsibility - part of the self-centred victim culture.

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