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Estrangement

The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

(1001 Posts)
nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 08:31:00

I hope it's OK to post this here. I'm sure Gransnet will move it if it's not but in view of all those estranged, cut off parents unable to understand why their adult children treat them like they do, this very well written post sums it up perfectly.
It was sent to me this morning. Obviously some AC have no choice but to keep their distance from abusive parents, we understand this. But this NC approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives.

' I am in the position that my estranged daughter is treating me like I'm toxic when I feel it's the other way around. We've been studying this for awhile now. Why are there so many adult children cutting off their families. These are things that we came up with. Something interesting: we've all noticed how our EC all do the same mean stuff and say the same mean things. It's like they're reading a script or like they all joined the same cult.
I have news for you. They are all reading a script. They did join the same cult.
What they are doing is called "Going No Contact". It's literally a scripted plan that they follow. It starts when they judge us as not just humans with whom they disagree, but "evil" because we don't see things their way. They complain online, and meet other complaining children who honestly believe, thanks to the self-esteem movement, that any time they were uncomfortable for a moment equals abuse. If their parents disagreed with them or made them do something that they didn't like or whacked their fresh asses when they talked back or refused to follow rules, they add this to their pile of justification. Lacking coping skills, they believe that anytime they are not happy, they have been wronged, and the person who dared to 'make' them feel bad is a Narcissist.
A Narcissist to them is what 'possessed' meant to our parents. The Narcissist is pure evil and a force to be feared and hated. They all bolster one another's justification of their interpretation of who we are. They swap war stories that are positively ridiculous, such as stories of the "evil narcissistic mother in law who wore a different dress than agreed upon to the wedding" or the "evil, narcissistic mother who took away all of their toys until their chores were done". I've seen both of those in these groups.
After justifying to themselves that they are RIGHT and their parents are EVIL NARCISSISTS, they begin plans to "Go No Contact". It is a systematic plan to discard the parents/grandparent, and turn the kids against grandparents. There are actual steps to this plan. They vary from group to group, but they are essentially all similar.
The groups talk a lot about setting boundaries, but what they call setting boundaries is just rude dictating, and setting their targets up to fail. Stuff like "I told my mother that she can come over between 12 and 1 on Sundays only. If she is one minute early or stays one minute late, that will be the end of her visits." Part of the plan is to NOT tell mother what she did wrong, just to enact the "consequence". They know that the targeted parent will try to rectify the situation. They react in a way that is illogical: refusing to answer questions, insisting that any apology is a manipulative lie and therefore is insincere, ordering parent out of their house, putting parents in that time out thing where they tell us not to contact them for a certain length of time, and then they will "review our request".
They post joyful stories of their parents reaction to losing grandkids or their parents pleas for an explanation. They cheer each other on and congratulate one another for cutting family off. Refusing to give any explanation is part of the plan. They call it Taking Your Power Back.
They claim that it's to protect themselves from the evil narcissists who are terrorizing them, but in reality, it's not about protection or healing. It's about power, control, and just being shitty. They don't know the difference between assertive and aggressive, and they think being arbitrary is the same as having boundaries.
Google "Going No Contact". You will find pages and pages of groups and instructions that will not surprisingly match exactly what our kids are doing.
I think this information can be very helpful. We can learn what they want us to do, so we can do the opposite.
I strongly urge every single person here to read up on "Going No Contact". It's like a map to navigate this territory. It even gets amusing sometimes, reading the steps and thinking "You're such a lemming". Who the hell would follow this crap.
They would, that's who'

celebgran Sat 16-Dec-17 11:32:38

Oh thanks violetfloss your kind reply has made me cry!

I never stop hoping and praying,

Yogagirl there are always 2 sides to everything I think most of us agree that. and starlady does her best to stay neutral and supportive in my opinion, she is never deliberately unkind or nasty why wouldn't I agree with some of her posts?

Violetfloss Sat 16-Dec-17 11:41:22

I really do mean that Celeb. You sound like a lovely genuine person.
I wish my MIL was like you. You would be very cherished indeed.

Yogagirl Sat 16-Dec-17 12:56:12

Some pass the sick bucket tchgrin

Yogagirl Sat 16-Dec-17 12:57:22

Someone tchblush

Friday Sat 16-Dec-17 13:02:18

Was that meant to be as rude as it sounded yogagirl ?

Madgran77 Sat 16-Dec-17 13:12:33

Yogagirl I am wondering whether you think your recent posts on this thread are helpful? If not, what is the purpose of them?

Violetfloss Sat 16-Dec-17 13:44:07

Yogagirl, have a day off babe. No one cares.

Norah Sat 16-Dec-17 15:14:44

Even the flat cake has 2 sides. But failing to take to account the side of others seems to be the preference.

Sugarpufffairy Sat 16-Dec-17 17:35:24

Having read a fair bit on MN about how awful parents are. I read about all the complaints that the young mothers had about mothers. mothers in law and grandmothers I felt that DC was just as bad if not worse than all the older generations talked about so I took myself off to be NC until such times as the young mothers learn to treat the older generation with some decency.
It is great to have peace from the moaning whining and criticizing that I lived with for so much longer than I should have. I am regaining confidence and going out more and enjoying doing what I want to do.
It is sad that family no longer means anything like the way it was when we were young but it is not worth putting up with rubbish just to have "family" around.

Starlady Sat 16-Dec-17 17:51:30

Thanks, celeb!

Sugar, if you've decided to remove yourself for a while from your relationships with your dc, I can't say as I blame you. I know it must not have been easy to do. xx.

I'm not quite sure I understand this sentence though: "... so I took myself off to be NC until such times as the young mothers learn to treat the older generation with some decency."

Are you talking about the "young mothers" on MN or your own dds? If it's the first, imo, that's too broad a generalization. Not all young mothers are rude, disrespectful, etc. If it's the second, I think it's something you've needed to do for a while, and I'm glad you did. It's good, imo, that you are free of the constant whining and criticizing now and are "going out more" and enjoying yourself.

I hope your dc rethink their attitudes in the interim and decide to treat you with more respect. But if they don't, then I hope you continue to enjoy your new life, no longer filled with all their negativity. Best of luck!

Sugarpufffairy Sat 16-Dec-17 18:42:46

Starlady - I cant really speak about over people. All I can say is that this is about how my DC have treated me. I am fine to dash out at all hours for various reasons (including a 2 a.m. dash for a DC who should have known to equip themselves with all necessary meds), I am needed when money has to be "borrowed" with various successes in being paid back. I have been verbally abused in public to such an extent that strangers have spoken out. I have even been physically attacked.
The final straw was when a DGC spoke to me uttering words that I knew had been overheard from adults. I was so disappointed but if that is all the way that my DC and DGC see in me I have better things to do while I still can.
It is harsh, it break my heart but I have no wish to have every ounce of confidence taken away from me.
Absent and non paying father has also reappeared and is now all that is wonderful. I thought my DC were smart enough to have noticed that he was not there in the past and I was working all hours to keep them. He claims to have paid CSA but when I asked him to go to CSA office and reclaim the "money he paid" he declined. Funnily enough.
I am not hereto be taken advantage of by anyone. There are kinder people than this around.

celebgran Sat 16-Dec-17 19:02:15

Violetfloss that's lovely thing to say just shown my husband? Thank you.

Sugarpuff sorry I know have read you had rough time being insulted etc.

Sometimes there is no choice but to walk away.

This time of year is hard for anyone with family upsets wishing us all peace of mind,

Violetfloss Sat 16-Dec-17 20:55:12

Sugar, I think you have done the right thing. I'm glad You have realised your worth. You don't need to accept people treating you like that.

'This time of year is hard for anyone with family upsets wishing us all peace of mind' absolutely flowers

FarNorth Sat 16-Dec-17 21:14:20

"The final straw was when a DGC spoke to me uttering words that I knew had been overheard from adults."

Sugarpuff, that must have been very hurtful. It sounds like you were on a losing streak in those relationships and have made the only choice you could.
flowers

Sugarpufffairy Sat 16-Dec-17 21:40:01

Thanks ladies for all your kind words. It has been a long time coming. It was not so bad when I had older relatives whom I was with at Christmas and had their company. I think older people are more able to be flexible and willing to consider others. My younger relatives are so demanding and brittle that it is not enjoyable to be with them. I am not really losing out just having a work in progress time until I find what I really want to do to please myself.
I will find something that pleases me in the day itself without having to worry about who is going to be angry with me.
Incidentally the DC are just the same towards each other as they are to me. It is just not nice at all

Violetfloss Sat 16-Dec-17 22:21:44

'I will find something that pleases me in the day itself without having to worry about who is going to be angry with me.'

Oh Sugar! That resonates with me so bloody much. The feeling of finally being free and making decisions for you. It takes time to find your feet because you are so use to worrying about getting it wrong, you end up making choices for a 'quiet life' which is the only reason you're choosing them. Its not for you but for them.

My MIL didn't hold that kind of power over me, but someone else did. I hope you find something that makes YOU happy.

Smileless2012 Tue 19-Dec-17 10:30:54

That's an interesting point Sugarpuff, about how siblings treat one another. Our DS's marriage broke up a few months ago and he is the only family member our ES has contact with, but his brother has only contacted him once to see if he's OK.

I've not been online for a few days so have been catching up with the posts here. Thank you Starlady for your reply to my post a few days ago. I was over sensitive, interpreting your post in the wrong way; I apologise.

I was counting the days until Sunday and DS was coming all the way from Aus. for Christmas and the nearer the day came, the more wound up I got. When the poor boy arrived Sunday afternoon, I nearly knocked him over in my excitement and desperation to give him a hugtchblush. Not that he minded though; that was the best hug ever. Pricelesstchsmile.

Norah Tue 19-Dec-17 14:00:29

Smileless2012, Maybe your ES finds it polite to resist prying into private affairs? Perhaps rather than thinking to something negative would make you feel better?

Luckylegs9 Tue 19-Dec-17 17:36:54

Norah, Smileless was on about brotherly concern, not prying. Hopefully when and if the occasion arises the brothers will speak. You just enjoy your son to yourself for a while, you need this time as he must after the year he has had. He knows you are there for him and always have been like his brother does.

Smileless2012 Wed 20-Dec-17 17:55:14

Yes Luckylegs exactly. A 'phone call or text to ask if someone's OK is hardly prying is it.

123flump Wed 20-Dec-17 22:44:41

In my experience going nc isn't anything new. My DH is 70 and he went nc more than once with his mother. She was a total nightmare but thought she was perfect. The times she humiliated him in public and then her innocent reaction when told how inappropriate she was. She was a widow and brought him up alone and oh the guilt tripping about what she had given up and done for him. Well that is part of being a mother isn't it?

She only had my DH, unfortunately for her I had two children from a previous marriage so when she tried to take over with our children I would just smile and point out I had done it all twice before.

She wanted to control everything but she would insist she was just trying to help. However often we visited it wasn't enough, whatever we did was wrong. The inevitable result of that was we decided not to do it, I think she imagined that if she moaned enough we would visit more but from our point of view was we got moaned at whatever we did so why bother? She tried early on to enlist me against DH, what a stupid tactic that was. We invited her to come to a nativity at nursery. Started at 11 so we said come at 10, have a cuppa and we will walk round. She arrived at 8 am, she booked the taxi early in case the traffic was bad. You could have walked from her house to ours in 30 mins so no need for that. What was the result of that little tactic? Well she didn't get invited the following year, coping with her at 8 am when trying to get the baby fed, the teenager off to school and the 3 year old ready for nursery was no fun. Again a situation she decided to manipulate that ended up working against her.

DH went nc two or three times but would eventually see her on a limited basis. She always tried to cause trouble, refused to remember my name when she could name every member of my family, tried to convince my husband I was having an affair. Oh it was endless.

We had to strictly limit her contact with the children as she was so toxic. They never missed her if she wasn't around but they adored my mother who never tried to interfere and didn't constantly fuss.

I did learn from her and have very positive relationships with my adult children and their partners, my SIL has told my daughter that if they ever divorce he's having me in the divorce settlement and I take that as a wonderful compliment. The thing I took from her with my DH was that you have to let your children go and if you try to hang on too tight they will try to get free.

I am very lucky with my children, their partners and GC and I am sure there are children with problems and their partners can cause trouble but this certainly isn't anything new, is nothing to do with the snow flake generation (horrible expression) my DH was born in the 1940s so definitely grew up when giving a child a slap was normal.

It must be hard to live with, particularly if there aren't any reasons for it or even if there are reasons but you don't understand them. One thing I would say is that involving other people was very counter productive in my husband's case. Some well meaning friend phoning to tell him he had broken his mother's heart, she meant well etc would only make him more determined to stay away.

celebgran Thu 21-Dec-17 12:32:31

I get what you are saying 123flump but do you mean your husband was happy to have broken his mothers heart?
Whatever her peculiar ways she had raised him alone,
How sad and lonely she must have felt.

I must correct you it is much. MOre common now for adult children to estranged.
I was scarcely heard of when I was a child.
The forums I belong to and secret groups bear testimony to this, and often the more the parents have done for child greater chance of being cut off, very sad and strange,

celebgran Thu 21-Dec-17 12:34:28

Sorry I can see on re reading your post m. I law was bit of nightmare did dh reunite before she died that is if she is dead sorry I don't mean be tactless here

123flump Thu 21-Dec-17 14:27:07

He always went back, massive guilt about her bringing him up alone which is unfair to put on a child. It was hardly his fault that his father died.

We were in touch right up till she died, I suppose as someone gets frailer it gets easier to forgive the things that have gone on.

He was never happy with the situation and certainly wasn't happy to break her heart but you would think she would modify her behaviour if she really wanted to stay close to him but she couldn't do it. She massively favoured our daughter over our son which was really sad to see as he was doing what his father had done in his childhood, trying to please her. I really think she probably wanted a daughter so my husband never had a chance of being what she wanted.

I always visited even when my husband couldn't do it, it was actually easier for me as I hadn't got a lifetime of programming to cope with and could laugh off most of her antics. I drew the line at her making out I was having an affair with my boss, that time I did get cross.

celebgran Thu 21-Dec-17 17:13:32

Well done 123flump to you and your husband it sounds like you really did your best.

Sadly no response from our estranged daughter when dh wrote told her about my spinal surgery.

How sad for your husband and son really to show favouritism is unkind, to say the least.

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