Support for all who are living with estrangement

Making a point unkindly rather than constructively and being told so, is not being told one is "mean", but being told one is rude/unconstructive and unhelpful perhaps!!!! !

Yes, it's all about interpretation isn't it Madgran

"Making a point unkindly rather than constructively and being told so, is not being told one is "mean", but being told one is rude/unconstructive and unhelpful perhaps!!!! !"

I think that's pretty much what her son and daughter inlaw attempted to convey! But they were the mean ones in that case! So, you're mean if you gingerly offer constructive criticism/s, too!

No win!

Well all of us here on this thread who are living with estrangement are no strangers to a no win situation, that's for sure.

I think it's sad that there's now disagreement on here about what happened on another thread. Since I have no idea what the other thread is I have no idea of the ins and outs but I know all these disagreements are scaring some people off who were finding comfort on this thread.

I hope not hugshelp. My understanding of GN rules is that other threads should not be mentioned and it is of course very unhelpful to bring to the discussion something that's been posted on a different thread, especially when we haven't seen the thread being referred too.

Perhaps the other thread differed to this one as ours is to support one another, not to judge and/or condemn.

Hello ladies
I've been reading with interest how some posters have moved away from supporting estranged GP. This is sad. Can we just share stories and hope for reconciliation together. Need to offer solutions and advice. Not criticism. We get enough of this. I'd like to ask if anyone has some practical advice about how to create a memory box for their gc. What do you put in yours? Thanks in advance

I've never made one, but I imagine you would put in birthday cards, Christmas cards, and photos.

Thanks.. What sort of photos?

We had a beautiful toy chest made for our GS's with both their names engraved on the front Joyfulnanna. I buy 2 cards for birthdays and Christmas; one is posted and the other goes in the chest.

There are small gifts that they never received for example each one has a 'Baby's first Christmas' bauble. I've lots of things to sort out. Poems I've written and I do want to get some photo's of family members they'll never have the chance to meet, especially their great grand mothers.

I'd like to write some family history down for them so at lease they'll know something of their father's family. Being able to do most of these things without blubbing all over everything is the real challenge for me and I haven't found a way round that yet.

Hello again Joy. As well as the obvious ones showing you together, I think it would be nice to include photos of pets your GS knew at your home. Maybe some photos of favourite toys too big to keep, or your garden and familiar places you used to take him like, the swings at the park. Tickets for entrance to e.g. the zoo, which possibly have the date on so you can show how old he was when you did those things.

Saying all that, I fervently hope you won't have to wait too long before you see your precious little GS. xx

Thank you so much for the ideas Ginny and Smileless. I have many keepsakes, his paintings, and little bits of writing, drawings, handprinting, pictures of things we've baked. I've got tickets to places we've been and photos to go with them, I think I will put them in a little scrapbook chronologically. I should have been doing that all along..
I love the idea of writing poems for him, what a wonderful idea.. I'll have a think about topics.. Do you mean poems about missing them?
Ginny, thank you.. I really really hope so, Ive tried so hard to relax about the situation. The pain is still there, still comes in waves. I still can't look at other kids his age without feeling bereft xx

Joyfullnana, I'm so glad you're making this memory box. Since I'm not in this situation, I have no experience to draw on, but if you have a hobby, perhaps some items that reflect that as well? If it's crafts, then you could make a few things to place in the box. If it's not something you can save in a box, then maybe pix of it or of you doing it or something like that? It would be another way to help him get to know you if/when the time comes.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

This is a controversial topic but eminent psychologist Elizabeth Loftus and others have published well respected, scholarly research and discussion papers on the fallibility of memory. Suggestibility can influence what we "remember", for example, and additions and embellishments may well occur without our being aware of their existence. That is to say, our AC or adult children-in-law may be pretty sure that we said or did this or that bad/wrong/unforgiveable thing but even a strong degree of certainty attached to the expressed accusation is not a reliable guide to the accuracy of the claim.

Thanks, Cherries! Fascinating!

Thanks for the reference Cherries. I can relate to what you say. I have the added problem that although my SiL speaks very good English, he misunderstands some common terms and expressions or even intonation which a native English speaker may use, which creates a different meaning or emphasis. He quite often misinterprets a comment as a command.

As he avoids being anywhere near me and actually moves out of their home, that problem may not occur very often now, but it's hard on my DD and GS. So sad.

Oh Smileless your post about what you put in your GS memory chest maid me choke a bit, re the family history. I've put cards for Xmas, birthdays &Easter, with a 'letter' from me, written on the card, updating on recent events i.e the birth of their cousins, plus their savings accounts updates that I opened for them, I also put in my yoga retreat booklets, which has a few pics of me, some in yoga poses & some of my yogic history. But nothing of the past family history.

When my DD and I chat about past events in the family, maybe my dad in the para's in north Africa, I do say, now Jenni can never tell her C this, as she doesn't know the story! We have no contact details, so can't send anything through the post. My GD loved my little Westie dog Lilly, that's just passed away

Perhaps you can write down some of those stories/past events, Yoga, and place them in the memory box, too? Or would it be too painful, as it seems to be for Smileless?

Fascinating about the memories Cherries. I suppose that can affect anyone, on any side of a memory.

No wonder we all remember events differently. There really is no more “true memory” by any party

That's really interesting cherries thank you.
The thing is, I will happily concede my memories are probably dodgy but my ES has estranged himself on memories which may or may not be inaccurate but which he won't even divulge - so nowhere to go with that really.
I just think, why not take people as they are now - if you can't be sure of the past. But you can't do that without contact.

Joyfulnanna I think you will need some tissues handy when filling your memory box, but poems might be about the precious memories of him you won't want to forget. Funny things he used to say perhaps, or little habits, favourite toys/tv programmes. Then there's another level of emotions you might wish to record about how missing him makes you feel.

So yes, very painful, but I think you'll be glad you did it some time in the future, you might benefit more immediately from getting it all down in writing too.

for being brave. x

I haven't been on here for a while as it all got a bit "upmarket" for me and I wasn't really sure about what was going on tbh
Good idea about the family history actually - never to be seen in our case, I'm certain of that, but I'll know that I've made information available.
I have to say things have got better for me. I don't get upset about things so much now. I think its because I know that the GC would be so changed and different that I know nothing about them, wouldn't recognise them if I saw them in the street (wouldn't ever happen though). Their mother will have raised them in a completely different way to how it would have happened had they still had our DS in their lives, and they won't be like family members at all by now. They will speak differently, dress differently, have different views, values and attitudes, none of which for the better.
Do I wish we still had them in our lives? Honestly, with them being raised by their mother and her family, terrible as it may sound, I have to say no.

glad you've found some kind of peace of mind Dontaskme

I think those of you doing memory boxes are very kind and brave and sincerely hope they will be appreciated one day.

Thank you Ginny and hugshelp.. Very comforting words.
Dontaskme.. That is so sad.. Don't give up hope.. Thats all we've got. I know its a form of self protection because I too have resigned myself (for now) that there's nothing I can do to make my AC change her mind about letting me see my GS.. I just have to accept what is in the present. I don't want it to affect my health anymore than it has done so I try to push it to the back of my mind. My house is full to the brim of reminders of my little GS who was once such a big part of my life.. All his toys, clothes, bedding here. Little part finished lego models and tubs of playdoh. His height markings with dates on my wall where he would stand eagerly to be measured to see how much he'd grown.. Breaks my heart when I think that he must miss coming here for overnight stays and exciting adventures.. Its no exaggeration that I've died a little over these months si ce NC. I can only move forward by putting my energies into remembering him and creating something for him when I see him again one day. When that day comes, it will be strange and I need to keep my health so I can be open and loving like I should be. None of this is his fault, In fact I imagine a positive reunuion over and over.. All pain will be washed away in an instant and I think I will even hug my AC and thank her. I have more and more hope in my heart because that's all I've got to keep me going.

Joyfulnanna it must be so hard for you and others who had a relationship with your GC that you're no longer able to see.

Don't these AC ever consider how much they're hurting their own children by taking away the GP's they've come to know and love? I guess not.

Never knowing either of our GC has I'm sure been a good thing for us. We miss the thought of them but don't miss a relationship that we never had.