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daughter and mother in law

(86 Posts)
moggie57 Mon 17-Jun-19 21:40:06

my daughter is getting baptised at church this week, si caually asked her whether mother in law was coming.she turns round and says what makes you think she wont be here after all she is my mum.!!! (actually i'm her mum not mother in law) my d has changed since she married husband ,who recently passed way nearly 2 years ago from heart problems,and rightly so she was upset at fathers day service yesterday. but she is always saying things that she knows will upset me. the more i speak out the more upset it makes me ,so i say nothing. yesterday i said i was only asking.i actually said thats great and left it at that. but its gs birthday on friday and in a nasty voice she said WE are celebrating gs birthday at my mums. really says me .i'm your mum ...not mother in law. frosty looks .then in afternoon our community had summer fayre ,and she avoided me most of the afternoon till i made a point of calling gc over to play bagatelle,,,frosty look and says they do as i tell them not you.. so upset that i have made appointment with our pastor ,just really had enough of her nasty remarks.......i have to pussyfoot around her,....she really has changed .she not the d i bought up. dreading her baptism and her testimony...but i have to bite my tongue..

moggie57 Mon 17-Jun-19 21:40:40

so casually.

moggie57 Mon 17-Jun-19 21:49:28

and before anyone says it i do have sympathy and love her lots and yes she been through a lot and been very brave. but to deny that i am her mum and not invite me to any get togethers. am always left out.the thing is since i had my menopause it has left me .how can i put it .i talk to myself and do childish things .i love playing with gc .d says you act like a real nanny.she doesnt like my new haircut and that i dyed it ,said i dont look like a real least mil moved to coastal town in kent. so i get d and gc up for lunch sometimes on sundays.i have never had gc stay over as they always under strict control .just feel like taking over dose and ending it all.she makes me feel so small and unwanted. i cant help how i am ,i have mild autism .so not very good at mixing with people. but tried to sit next to her in church and she told there not enough room ,well move up then ,no she says. theres no room for you ,in front of everyone..was very upset and say 6 rows back.

SpringyChicken Mon 17-Jun-19 22:32:17

Why is she bothering to be baptised? She doesn't sound very Christian and must realise how hurtful she is.
I would continue to speak your mind, don't let her bully you. The more you tiptoe around her, the worse she will be. I feel very sorry for you, Moggie.

Avor2 Mon 17-Jun-19 22:34:18

I do feel for you. Have you any idea why she is so aggressive towards you? Have you said something that she has taken the wrong way? Has she been like this only since husband died? Sorry so many questions. You say you sometimes say and do childish things, would you have upset her at one of those times? I can only suggest that you step back a bit from her although obviously you want to be with your family, hopefully the GC are ok with you, but perhaps your D needs some space, I really don't know I am afraid.

I wish you luck and hopefully things will sort themselves out. Big hugs to you.

crazyH Mon 17-Jun-19 22:49:54

Can't be easy for her to be a widow at such a young age (have I got that right?). That's no excuse for her to say such nasty things. You are and always will be her mother. Her m.i.l. is probably very, very sad at the loss of her son and your daughter and child are the only things she has, that remind her of her son. Gosh, I haven't got all this wrong, have I? A big hug for you....and hope things improve between you and your daughter.

Greenfinch Mon 17-Jun-19 23:05:39

You say you have mild autism. Do you think she might have it too and doesn't realise the effect of what she says ? I am sorry you are feeling so upset.It must be very hard for you.

paddyann Tue 18-Jun-19 00:03:45

I'd guess thet her MIL and her have bonded over their loss ,you wont feel it the same way so maybe you feel she;s pushing you aside.It could just be a part of her grieving process,grief does very strange things to us and we all react differentlt.Dont give up on her but if its only been a couple of years since her loss you have to accept she has along way to go before she can "move on".f being with her MIL helps them both you should be supportive and try not to dwell on your health when you're with her she doesn't need any more negativity around than she already has to deal with.I hope you all get back to a happier place sooner rather than later meantime take care of yourself and try to be kind to both yourself and your daughter

Namsnanny Tue 18-Jun-19 00:39:03

I don't understand why her suffering over her husband and bonding with her mil over his death, means she gets to be hurtful to you?
You are her mother, and to swap titles is very odd!

I hope I don't upset you too much when I say that, I just find her attitude very perplexing!

Clearly she wants you to know she is in a relationship with mil that means more to her than the one she shares with you, or why make this point repeatedly?

Could you find a quiet time just the two of you to ask her why she does such and such?

Could she feel there is something you have done to her that for her, means she cant see you as her mother any more?

Sorry if the questions are too personal and I completely understand if you don't feel like answering!

shamrock Good luck flowers

GG65 Tue 18-Jun-19 00:50:25

moggie57, your daughter’s behaviour sounds incredibly hurtful. Has she always been like this, has she become like this since her husband passed or has something happened between you both that she is reacting to?

Starlady Tue 18-Jun-19 02:13:23

Moggie, my heart is aching for you! No doubt, D is grieving and has been bonding w/ her MIL over their shared grief. But hurting and you and leaving you out of things shouldn't be part of that, as others have said. Also, I agree that switching the titles around is very disturbing indeed.

Why has she chosen this time to be baptized? Is it related to her DH's death? Is she joining the church that he belonged to or that MIL belongs to? Is it part of a different sect than yours? I'm asking b/c I'm wondering if that's what is influencing her behavior.

Also, I hope you don't mind if I echo GG65's question - has something happened between you that she might be reacting to?

" so upset that i have made appointment with our pastor"...

Good idea! I'm sure the pastor can help you cope.

"...just feel like taking over dose and ending it all.she makes me feel so small and unwanted. "

Please don't do that. We are here for you, and so will your pastor be. In fact, please let him know you feel this way. You might also want to contact the Samaritans:

Daisymae Tue 18-Jun-19 08:37:33

You do sound like you could be depressed so it might be an idea t visit your doctor soon. I would take a step back from your daughter and give things time to settle down. Try to keep busy and not dwell on how things are at moment. Hopefully a discussion with the pastor may help too.

chris8888 Tue 18-Jun-19 11:03:51

Maybe she is trying to push you away to avoid the hurt when she loses you too. I know that sounds extreme but l found myself being very short tempered with people after losing my daughter to cancer.

Rachand Tue 18-Jun-19 11:04:42

Yes speak with your Pastor as she has such a poor attitude to you she seriously needs to reconsider her baptism.

tickingbird Tue 18-Jun-19 11:06:43

I feel for you. It has obviously been a very sad time for her and the children and mil but I can’t understand why she would make a point of referring to her mil as her real mum. That is unbelievably hurtful and she must realise that. Has she only been like this since losing her husband or has there always been difficulties?

It’s hard to comprehend but, as others have suggested, I’d take a step back for a while. Keep it light when you do speak and please come on here when it gets too much. Good luck.

jaylucy Tue 18-Jun-19 11:09:33

My first thought, like others is what has happened between the two of you ? You don't say if you had a good relationship with her before.
I think the anger that she is still feeling at her husband's passing is being thrown back at you - because she can (she thinks). The changes that you have made in your appearance - which, quite frankly is nobody's business but your own, may also be wrapped up in her grieving and she may well have a picture in her mind of how her mother and children's grandmother should look and behave.
Maybe she is stuck n a place of how SHE should be behaving after losing her life partner and expects everyone else to be acting the same - which her MiL perhaps does and she feels that only the two of them can understand what they are going through.
Hopefully your chat with your pastor should help, please tell him how lonely you are feeling and hopefully he will be able to introduce you maybe to a womens group in your church (there must be one) that will be supportive for you that will be the first step towards helping you to feel more valued however your daughter treats you and so you will both be able to come out the other side.

Lxrl Tue 18-Jun-19 11:09:59

This all sounds very hurtful for you, moggie. I'm so sorry you're going through this and equally sorry that she has lost her husband, and the children their father. Grief can make us act in bizarre ways.
I left home at 17, and despite my mother being the most loving, perfect mum ever, I told her she wasn't my mum anymore and I moved in with my friend and referred to her mother as my mum. In the years since, I've reconnected with my mum and we are best friends, especially since I had my DD.
Personally, I would not rise to any of this. Don't make an effort for a while, back off and let her miss you and realise how important her mother is. I imagine she has bonded with MIL over their loss, and possibly feels more able to reach out to her, and MIL is perhaps clinging to your daughter and the GC as a way of being closer to her late son.
Please see your doctor and lean on your pastor and congregation as much as possible, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. 2 years is still a very fresh loss, my lovely great aunt was in bits for the better half of a decade after her husband suddenly passed away from a heart attack. Referring to MIL as her mum indicates that she is getting more support from MIL, that doesn't mean you are not supporting her enough, rather that your daughter feels more able to connect with MIL over the shared loss so please try to not take it to heart.
You can get through this, in the meantime try to fill your time with things that make you happy, your church will undoubtedly be there for you also.

Margaux Tue 18-Jun-19 11:17:29

Poor you, Moggie. I feel for you. I think it is the kind of thing that happens to everyone - sometimes, one will say something that other people take the wrong way, and they might tell others, and then resentment builds up - a drama based on nothing more than a misunderstanding. Even so, it is very difficult to clear. Your answer, maybe, is to be strong in yourself. She is your daughter and has gone through a difficult time. Find it in yourself to forgive her. But above all, don't let her behaviour hurt you. Tell yourself that you are as you are and have done nothing wrong. And build up your life. Find new interests. Do the things in life that give you enjoyment. It's easy to say - be strong - I know it's difficult to do. Keep smiling and be your own best friend. Maybe? x

Dillyduck Tue 18-Jun-19 11:19:18

Are you a widow yourself? I can't imagine what your daughter has gone through watching her lovely husband fade away and die at such a young age. I was widowed at 54, no warning, found my OH dead in bed from a heart attack. I would describe myself as one of the most down to earth practical women you could ever meet, but believe me, I wasn't the first two years of being widowed! She has lost so much, it's incredibly sad. Just putting one foot in front of the other can be difficult some days.
If your daughter knows that you love her, at the moment that's all that matters. If she snaps at you, maybe say "there's no need for that" or "no need to take it out on me".
However, I am more concerned for the grandchildren. Does she get cranky with them too? Could you ask THEM if they would like to come over to you for tea one day? Children are "little people" and feel all the same things as us, but sometimes can't put feelings into words. My grandson likes to come to my place after school each Wednesday, it's HIS choice what he does, play on his go kart, dig sand, make chocolate cake, or just sit and play with his phone. One day his mum got cross with him and called him something not very nice. I decided at that point to call him "The Best Grandson in the World", a title he is really proud of. In the course of conversation I ask him how he's feeling in some round about way so he doesn't realise what I'm doing. I also tell him how I'm feeling, sometimes sad, sometimes happy because, sometimes not wanting to do much. Then you are not in any way criticising anyone else, but supporting them. Maybe daughter is struggling under the control of MIL? In time, maybe even a year or two, your "real" daughter will gradually emerge again. Is she getting any counselling for her grief? Maybe at the moment she is still too raw even to talk about things. I know I couldn't for years.

Overthehills Tue 18-Jun-19 11:27:47

Moggie I’m so sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time. Others have given you good advice - step back a bit and try to do things which make you happy. Perhaps see your GP in case depression is part of your problem - not meaning that it’s your fault at all.
Seeing your (and her?) pastor is a good thing but make it clear to him that whatever you say is in the strictest confidence.
I wish you well and hope that this situation will be resolved quickly and happily. I don’t know enough about adult baptism (did she have to have preparatory classes?) but maybe DD will look a time things differently afterwards - I hope so. Good luck and God bless you. flowers

farmgran Tue 18-Jun-19 11:28:18

I lost my first husband when I was very young and pregnant and I attached myself to my mother in law and family as it was the only link with my husband untill the baby came along. I didn't have a mother of my own so there were no loyalty issues. Maybe thats what your daughter has done and hopefuly you'll get her back to her old self when some time has passed. I hope so .

Smileless2012 Tue 18-Jun-19 11:30:26

I hope that you find your meeting with your pastor beneficial Moggie. You'll be able to open your heart and say all of the things that are troubling you and are unable to say to your D.

As has been said, the bond between your D and her m.i.l. has no doubt been strengthened due to their shared tragic loss, not that that explains or condones your D's insensitivity.

Once you've spoken to your pastor, it may be an idea to arrange to see your D with him/her. Sometimes third party with no direct involvement can be helpful.

Houndi Tue 18-Jun-19 11:37:54

Has you daughter has mild autism to she might be saying things without a filter i experience this with my son.We both love each other so much and i understand this is the way he is.He does not mean to be hurtful its his condition.I cannot understand her calling MIL mom.My mum died last March and she will be the only person i ever call mum.My mother in law is her Christian name and will always will be.Please do not think of taking a overdose think of how your grandchild would be and how you are missing out on her grownup.I think its a excellent idea to talk to the Pastor as you sound depressed.Also remember you can always post on here and people will listen.

Jishere Tue 18-Jun-19 11:40:44

It sounds like emotionally she is taking her feelings out on you. She sounds very bitter and maybe she feels closer to her MIL because they shared a love for her late husband.

You are in a difficult situation but try not to let her words effect you - I know that is easier said than done! But give her time - it's almost like sub consciously she is saying your my mum and you don't understand me, you can't possibly understand how I feel - but my MIL does.

Time is a great healer - try not to take it to heart - the grieving process is different for everybody.

ReadyMeals Tue 18-Jun-19 11:42:52

Is she possibly becoming unwell? Sounds like she may be confused about who is who. I am assuming it's not you who is confused and she's actually your DIL and married to your son lol :D

Jaycee5 Tue 18-Jun-19 11:50:30

I agree with people who say that it is probably the shared connection with her late mother in law that is at the heart of it. Maybe you have unintentionally said things that made her feel that you didn't understand.
I think you need to look for other interests and let your daughter come to you as much as possible. Don't invest too much emotion in the relationship as it sounds as if it will help you. It is very sad but there is no easy solution and you must protect your own mental health. See your doctor and don't resist if he suggests medication any more than you would if offered it for any other illness.

BazingaGranny Tue 18-Jun-19 11:51:05

When my daughter got engaged and then married, she discovered that her MiL wanted to be called ‘mummy’ by all the DiLs and SiLs, I found it rather strange and quite hurtful. But in many ways nothing to do with me.

Another thought, if your daughter is being baptised now, as an adult, is she joining the same church as her MiL? This may be very influential on her feelings and actions.

I hope it resolves, please don’t leave in haste, hurtful though it feels at the moment 🌺

Bbbface Tue 18-Jun-19 11:54:48

You asked whether her MIL was coming to her child’s baptism? Clearly very close to her.

Ridiculous question. Would have irritated me too.

Sounds like you need to think before speaking a little more

Bbbface Tue 18-Jun-19 11:56:12

Sorry your daughter not grandchild being baptised.

Of course her very close MIL would be coming if she’d invited someone (you!) she doesn’t seem especially close to.

NemosMum Tue 18-Jun-19 12:21:44

Sounds to me as though your daughter is very immature. Not sure what you can do about her hurtful behaviour, other than to stay dignified. By all means talk to the pastor if that is your source of support. I hope it settles down.

Ironmaiden Tue 18-Jun-19 12:47:04

Bbbface was it necessary for you to be so unkind? Having a bad day?

Tillybelle Tue 18-Jun-19 13:05:49

Dear moggie57. Oh how sad this is! You are obviously in such terrible pain and I know too how much our daughters can hurt us. I really do not think they actually mean what they say. I am sure your DD is depressed and, as you say, is still grieving. I have been through a similar thing with one of my own daughters in particular. At the time it ripped me apart but looking back, although I am not entirely recovered, I honestly think she was taking out on me all her anguish and grief. It is true that sometimes we take out our worst feelings on those we feel safest with. That is why us mothers get such terrible treatment. It is not much comfort to hear it. But the fact that she says hurtful things to you and not to her MiL actually is because she loves you in such a close way and is closer to you than she could ever be to her MiL. Indeed, after losing her DH, this closeness may even frighten her.
I am retired, but I am a trained and experienced Psychologist. I do not often say this but I would like you to think about whether your daughter, when she says horrible things to you, might be projecting her own feelings on to you. Projection is when we have horrible and painful feelings which we cannot bear or do not like and without realising it, we 'project' these feelings onto someone else by saying horrible things to them. Thus your daughter hurls her grief and distress, all the horrible feelings inside herself, onto you. This is so common after a terrible event such as a death. She is in effect, "taking it out on you". She is doing this unconsciously, and it is not deliberate. She thinks she is actually angry with you but really she is terribly upset deep down and you are the only person with whom it is safe for her to feel those feelings. She needs someone to throw all her misery at. But who can she do this to? Not her child! It would destroy him! Not her MiL - she might stop liking her! Who is there in the world to whom we can rant, rave let out our utter misery, and yet they still go on loving us? Our mum, of course!! That's the crazy part! - she can only do this to you because in the whole world you are the only person she really loves and who she knows really loves her back! And now that she has lost someone who should never have died - well, as we know, she has learned that people can die and she's terrified of who she might lose next!! We all fear this deep down. But she probably has this fear nearer the surface.

I am so sorry to say to you that I would like you to stay there and just take it. Obviously you have to say something, but try and make it neutral. It sounds as if you are already good at this. Just nodding and saying "OK, I'll try". or whatever is appropriate. Most importantly - don't take in a single word! Let the words just fall off you like mist evaporating. But just be there because you are her anchor, safety net, rock, whatever analogy you like to use that signifies strength and security. She needs you. Try very hard not to fight back back. Simply love her. Imagine this is a toddler before you who does not understand a world which has stolen her most wonderful love, for the indescribable grief must have rendered her as helpless as a small child. I can't imagine what it must be like for her. The actual things she says are all rubbish as you know, so don't try to make them right with explanations. She is just like a two year old who cannot deal with her feelings. But fortunately she has you! If she did not have you these feelings so easily could turn inward and she might become suicidal.

So how do we build you up so you have enough strength to cope with this? First, do not ignore good nutrition. I am such a hypocrite - I confess - because I do not eat well. But try and eat as well as you can and if necessary take a vitamin supplement.
Then remember to love yourself. This is essential. It is not airy-fairy nonsense. If we do not love ourselves enough to treat ourselves well then we aren't a lot of use to others! There may be some YouTube videos or meditation tapes about this. Indeed meditation, with relaxation may be very helpful to you. You say you are in touch with your Church Pastor so I understand you believe in the Love of God the Father and you know we have a best friend in Jesus. So please remember to ask Him to help you, especially at those times when she is hurting you the most by appearing to favour her MiL.

Regarding her MiL, It is not surprising if this lady has been a bit possessive of your daughter since she lost her son. It is a delicate position for you. This Granny will probably cling to your Grandson a bit more than normal, having suffered the death of his father. I would tread very carefully and ask God to give His divine Love and help to deal with your emotions when this other Granny seems too possessive. It is very hard for you, but it is one of the most generous and kind things you could do, if it helps to heal this poor mother's grief at the death of her son.

Back to you - I am concerned that you are struggling on alone here. I don't like to hear you say you have thought of suicide. Please don't do that. It really is not the answer. I have had to deal with two people close to me who did it and I promise it really would be terrible for your grandson as well as many other people whom you probably can't think of at the moment.

You do need to talk to someone as i'm sure you know so please make an appointment to see your Doctor and say you need a double appointment. Tell him/her about your suicidal thoughts and pour out all your anxieties, burdens, distress about your daughter's words, and your mild autism. Autism is part of my family and my father had it mildly and my children are convinced I also have it! So let's shake e-hands! I think it makes us super-special!! It could mean your daughter is affected to. That might make processing her husband's death very hard as you know.

Will you keep in touch with us and let us know how you are? You are doing extremely well even if you don't feel like it. Believe me, these things do not go on forever!

Sending you lots of love and prayers, Elle flowers

grandtanteJE65 Tue 18-Jun-19 13:13:15

I agree with all the others, your daughter's behaviour is hurtful, extremely so.

May I just point out that calling ones MIL mum used to be the done thing. Of course, if your daughter has always called you Mum rather than Mummy or Ma, I see why that would hurt you, but otherwise it isn't really in itself something to be hurt by. My mother was mortally offended when neither my BIL or my DH would consider calling her Mum, times change.

However, it's not just the name, but the fact that your daughter seems to be closer to her MIL than to you that is the really sad thing.

I don't know how you solve this, but I do think you should tell her quietly that you are happy she gets on well with her MIL, lot of women don't, but you feel left out and you wonder what on earth you can have done or said to cause her to treat you the way she does. Sadly, saying this may get you nowhere, but I think you should tell her quite honestly how you feel.

Gonegirl Tue 18-Jun-19 13:14:29

It's just weird. There must be a back-story. I think we never know half of some of these situations that crop up on here.

Just out of interest OP, are you in America? (not that it makes any difference, I suppose)

fizzers Tue 18-Jun-19 13:42:14

why not ask her why she does this? there has to be a reason behind it

Tillybelle Tue 18-Jun-19 13:42:28

Dear chris8888. How kind of you to speak with support to this suffering lady of your own so sad experience. I can see how having to experience such a untoward death would very easily make anybody impatient and cross with people especially if they say stupid things. I was bereaved by suicide and sometimes I was a bit short when people said "know-it-all" things about suicide. For example in a small women's group where we took turns to give a talk each week and one woman always had the last word. She said something wholly inaccurate on the subject. I corrected her! I was a bit shocked by myself but too bad!

I am terribly sorry to hear that you lost your daughter so young. I lost my husband but even when the Policeman was still holding me up (my legs gave way) I remember having this thought that it would have been worse if it were one of the children.

During my life I have met people who have lost children, through illness mainly but some through accident or crime. I never cease to be amazed at the strength of the parents, in particular the mothers, who keep going, often for the sake of other children. You are a very special group of people indeed.

I do not know if it helps - if not please just ignore me! But I nearly died once. The Doctor thought I was dead and that my new-born first baby was dead also.

I had a Near-Death Experience or Out of Body Experience as they are called.

I can describe it at length but maybe not here. But I do want to tell you that it completely changed me. I know we do not die. I have no doubt at all. I went towards the bright light and I felt the amazing love of the people who all knew me. I was sent back because my baby lived. The Doctor started her heart.

I know your daughter lives on, with many loved ones who were watching her before she went to them and knew her already. She is happy. It is true, there is no more pain and no tears there. You will see her again.

Bless you. flowers

pinkjj27 Tue 18-Jun-19 13:42:39

Please don’t take an over dose Please seek help now.
I think you both need support I too lost my husband and it does make you go through all sort of emotions and question relationships but it sound like there is more going on.
Can you get family concluding through your pastor?.
I am not sure what a real nanny looks like or is meant to look like. I am young and funky and childish but happy and proud of who I am. Be confident in who you are and as long as you know that you are being the best person you can be, you can then put things into perspective and realise that the problem is hers and not anything you have done or the way you look . Once you feel sure about yourself you will feel more able to support her.

And I am going to say this again Don’t take an over dose seek help or come back here to feel listened to.There is room for you here.

Survivor Tue 18-Jun-19 13:48:24

Speak your mind without emotion or anger setting boundaries for behavior you find hurtful. You have a right to your own thoughts and feelings and don't need your daughter's permission to have them. Address the issues as they arise in a calm and clear manner so she understands how you expect to be treated. It's okay to stand up for yourself, sometimes people change and we can't control that, only our reactions and responses to which you are entitled. Hope it helps.

pinkjj27 Tue 18-Jun-19 13:49:56

if you read the 2nd post The op says he feels like killing her self which is a cry for help. She not in a good place and a place I have been before.Some of these replies are a little harsh and might make her rush for the pills. Why cant we just be kind or stay quiet.

Tillybelle Tue 18-Jun-19 13:56:37

regarding asking what the reason behind it is -
I think she may not know or will find a reason but it probably isn't really why she does it. I suspect it might be the flood of grief and possibly depression following the loss of her husband. I hope she is being helped.

You're so right - it is difficult here - we can only suggest what comes to mind because it isn't possible to know much of what is happening or has happened. I think people who write in are good at knowing what is suitable for their situation and what is not. Having lots of people writing back at least gives a lot of experience so there may be one or two answers/suggestions that are helpful.

Just putting forward support, sympathy, our own experience and suggestions for what might help is all we can do. The OP will make up her mind what suits her.

Tillybelle Tue 18-Jun-19 13:59:55

pinkjj27. So well said!!

Oh how I wish this was the first rule! You wrote:

just be kind or stay quiet.

jenpax Tue 18-Jun-19 14:17:48

I found your post a little confusing so am not entirely sure I have grasped all the story. However you mentioned a pastor, if he or she is a shared minister for both you and daughter it might be worth asking him or her to facilitate a mediation session for you both where you can both say what’s in your hearts in an honest way. As a Christian your daughter (and I presume you are also one?) are supposed to be loving and ready to forgive so that if you have hurt her albeit unintentionally maybe the pastor can help you both see common ground?
You mention that you have mild autism and I wonder if you have had any support with this? As others have said people who are Autistic can be a bit blunt and I wonder if something has been said and caused upset?
Do do please seek help too from your GP or at the least call The Samaritans as you sound severely depressed and talk of over dose which is very concerning.

pinkjj27 Tue 18-Jun-19 14:31:03

Sorry op you 2nd post upset me so much I rushed to reply I of course mean Counselling. I have said it before but I do wish There was an edit button on here

pinkjj27 Tue 18-Jun-19 14:31:51

I mean your post not you see edit button needed

agnurse Tue 18-Jun-19 15:35:16

This does sound very hurtful and I'm sorry.

I would suggest that you back off from her for a little bit. As PPs have said, it may just be that she has bonded with MIL over their shared loss and she is trying to ensure that MIL maintains a bond with the family.

Please do not end your life over this. You need to create a life for yourself beyond your daughter and her family. I would strongly encourage that you see your provider to discuss this. (I know that you're seeing your pastor, and that's a great start, but not all pastors are necessarily equipped to handle mental health issues. This is why you may benefit from seeing your provider as well.)

Riversong Tue 18-Jun-19 15:37:01

Take a friend with you on the day so you don't feel so anxious and leave it for a later occasion maybe over a lunch when you two can sit down and talk together . But don't let her put you down. Leave the door open for her to visit you and you get on with your life.

blue60 Tue 18-Jun-19 16:26:14

I hear you. Now, my lovely, please do not contemplate suicide. It will achieve nothing.

You can get through this, with help and support, and everyone on here are here for you if you need to share your feelings.

I can empathise with your situation, and let me tell you it will pass.

I cannot say much more, except to take care of yourself and reach out whenever you need to. xxx

Johno Tue 18-Jun-19 17:28:54

For me.. my self-respect comes first regardless of how anyone else feels. When you assert your respect for yourself you soon see how others treat you with respect. Otherwise you conform to a sort of blackmail and that is not good. I always tell people where I stand, upfront and honest (without being nasty) you can not control what others do but you can control how you react and how you feel about it. Your daughter stands logic on its head, that does not mean you have to do it or agree with it.

Flowerofthewest Tue 18-Jun-19 17:35:44

She sounds spiteful and cruel. Could you write her a letter or even get mil on side

Greciangirl Tue 18-Jun-19 17:36:33

Does she really deserve to be baptised with an attitude like that.
My Dd is often sharp with me, but that’s because I know she is sometimes stressed .
It hurts at the time, but she can also be kind, so I tend to ignore it.
If she steps over the line too far, then I will let her know.

ayokunmi1 Tue 18-Jun-19 19:03:51

No shes treating her shit and why is this right
Again stiff upper lip she maybe not be well, trying to find a bond with her in law .all thats pants shes disrespectful and thats it.You need to say it just as it is you need to tell her to be mindful of her behaviour towards you. What makes her think she can be this nasty to you.Stand up for whats right tell her how you feel if necessary let her be .

sharon103 Tue 18-Jun-19 19:30:57

You say moggie that your daughter changed when she married her husband so it's not just the bereavement that caused her nasty behavior toward you.
I'm not the kind of person to 'wonder why', if my daughter behaved in the same way to me, I would be asking her why and you don't have to pussy foot around her. You deserve some respect. Regain your self-esteem.
I understand at this time you feel so worn down. I would get some help from your GP. Take a step back until you feel better but in the meantime find some outside interests you enjoy if you can. You look after you. flowers

sharon103 Tue 18-Jun-19 19:35:45

Agree ayokunmi1 I would never let any of my AC talk to me in that way in the first place and they know it.

cassandra264 Tue 18-Jun-19 19:53:52

So sorry you are going through such a bad time. I think you should get some help from your GP too and maybe a referral for counselling. This is likely to help you feel much better about yourself and understand more what is going on generally. Then you will cope better; it will be easier to assert yourself to your daughter; and you can then be open to her about what you think needs to change between you for the relationship to improve.
Lots of love and good luck flowers

Tillybelle Tue 18-Jun-19 20:09:33

moggie57 I'm just signing off for tonight but wanted to say "hang in there". Things will change in time, believe me. I too have felt very much like you at times in my life. Life does not stand still, changes come in and new things appear and one day you will be so glad you are here. You may hear a piece of music or see a colour of feel the sunshine and know that at last you do feel better. You will get there. There are so many of us holding you up right now, and we are not even all in one place but dotted around the globe! Isn't that amazing? All of us holding you up Moggie?
I know people here are saying your daughter is not being Christian and so on. Please do not fall into that trap. She is lost in the dessert right now. You too - you just can't find anything to hold onto to help you cope with that feeling that life is too painful and too hard. But remember the first Beatitude? "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." I didn't "get" this for years until I read 'The Message"; "“You’re blessed when you’re at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule." When you are right at the end of your tether and don't know how to cope, then you are kind of empty inside, so - that leaves loads of room for God! Just ask him in! Fill up on Him. Ask for His help and blessing.

If people read this and say "Where was God when he let you get so low?" Please don't fall into that trap! The Devil is the guy who pulls us down low. We all know where the Devil likes to be! That's where he wants to all us! And if he can get us to blame God for illness, bad luck, feeling depressed, being poor, all the terrible things that the world contains, then that is the Devil's biggest game - making us think God invented them! The whole point of this world is that we live here where the Devil lives and he is powerful. But one moment asking for help from God, one moment asking Jesus to com and help us and the Devil is powerless!

I know you won't mind me saying this because you said you are going to talk to your Church Pastor.

I wanted to ask you if you would mind just sending us a short message saying hello. We would love to hear from you. We don't know where on the globe you are so the time zone may not be the same as mine. But whenever you can, please Moggie57, a short message would be so welcome.

I am preparing to just eat something then get off to bed. We were told there was thunder on the way. It's raining but no noises yet.

This was the end of my message but I am going to cut and paste the first part from where it was to here so you can read my feelings about what is happening in your family and finish with those. I should say - I have had a lot of people die. My husband committed suicide - so please do not do it! My three daughters - well, they are adults now. They were 8, 15, and 19 when he died.

I'm just signing off for tonight but wanted to say "hang in there". Things will change in time, believe me. I too have felt very much like you at times in my life. Life does not stand still, changes come in and new things appear and one day you will be so glad you are here. You may hear a piece of music or see a colour of feel the sunshine and know that at last you do feel better. You will get there.

There are so many of us holding you up right now, and we are not even all in one place but dotted around the globe! Isn't that amazing? All of us holding you up Moggie?

Dear moggie57 I am sure your daughter has had a regression of some kind - like a breakdown - and is "sounding off" saying all sorts of crazy and ridiculous things. When children are toddlers they go through a terrible stage of testing their parents to find out where the boundaries are. They feel terribly insecure if a parent allows them too much lee-way. But if a parent is too strict they become too frightened and do not dare explore.

They test the boundaries to find out where they will be held and stopped - where their parent will stop them and say "No". Then they feel safe. So your daughter now she has to look after her son all on her own, that's probably what she thinks in the small hours of the night. She feels as if those loving arms that held her safe have let her go. She is free-falling in the darkness, lashing out screaming to find the boundaries again to know when she will hit the sides, when the safety net will catch her - is it still there? Has the world thrown her out? She is flailing around - completely unmanageable.

You - her poor dear mum, are everything to her. You are the only permanent thing she knows in life. But life has just broken and she needs to test you and see if you are breakable. You are the safety net, the punch bag, the edges of the world that has let her down and cast her out! Now she is testing you.

It's the only way she knows to find out if she is worth loving any more. She doesn't love her late husband's mother! Not "like a mother"! We know that because she doesn't love her enough to treat her badly! She finds it a comfort to be with her because she brings her closer to her dear departed husband. Being in her house is like their courting days. It brings him back. If she keeps near his mother she can keep a bit of him alive... for a while,,,

But she does not love her like we love our mother! She is too polite to her!! Since when was a girl polite to her mother? OK the queen when in public... The mums we really love are the people we, well, we're awful to them aren't we? Us girls? I mean, we take them for granted for a start. We don't say "Thank you for taking me to school and making me say please and thank you and clean my teeth..." Our mums are the people we treat badly when we are difficult toddlers, the person we tell "I hate you!" when we are sulking little girls, our mums are "The stupid cow!" when we are awkward teenagers, and "Oh Gawd not mother again!" as moody young women we lift the phone...

and then - when the unimaginable worst happens, and we have the most awful pain inside us that we just can't bear - we screech it out at ... our mum! Not anyone else. No-one else loves us enough. Everyone else would go away and dump us. Even our mum's friends tell our mum to walk away from us, they tell our mum, we've hurt her enough, save yourself, let her go, she's and adult,...

But to our mum, while we scream the loudest primeval scream we can invent, the nastiest, horribles things at her, .. she stares at us.. because we are just her little girl. Her little baby who had this perfect baby boy. Who was such a perfect baby girl herself, yesterday morning, and then a bride to a lovely man in the afternoon, a man who got sick at tea time, his heart, and died at bed-time and our little girl, screaming great gobs of cruel mouthfuls of killing words at us, our bay daughter is ... a Widow!

You know you won't abandon her. You simply can't. Even though you could really do with a rest. But you will never let her go. She knows. Just don't listen to the words. They are the only way she knows of saying to you "Mum it really hurts. It hurts so much I can't stand it." Hear her pain - she's trying to throw it at you, hear it and say, "Darling I'm so sorry - I love you so much."

PamGeo Tue 18-Jun-19 20:18:10

Oh Tillybelle, I'm not religious but even I thought that was lovely and supportive, how can anyone follow that with kindness and love for this lady who is religious and therefore won't object to what has been said.

sharon103 Tue 18-Jun-19 20:44:24

Tillybelle, in my honest opinion your last post reads too deep. If I were depressed that would send me down further. Good intentions I know. None of us know the reason for daughter's behavior.

Onestepbeyond Tue 18-Jun-19 21:46:42

Get yourself a new Daughter! adopt one and put her first get rid of this nasty non-daughter

dizzygran Wed 19-Jun-19 09:07:12

So sorry for your pain. Perhaps you are relying too much on your daughter for your social needs. Try to broaden your own circle and activities. It is unusual for a DiL to refer to her MiL in this way - I wonder whether she is also on theautistic spectrum. Try not to wear your heart on your sleeve and resist saying anything in retaliation. Your daughter is trying to find her feet and independence. Be supportive, but remember you are not a door mat. Show that you also have a life of your own. Sending hugs

moggie57 Wed 19-Jun-19 12:04:36

no she deft my daughter.....i know she gets on really well with mil..and she calls her mum .and yes i can see that mil is so very upset at losing her son. but she said she was coping well,and was ok with her son not being in any more pain. many years ago we did have a falling out. though i have forgiven her but i dont forget. we never got on that well anyway.its not her thats at fault .i dont think my daughter realises the things she says are really hurtful.which i am going to suggest tomorrow that she gets some more counselling.

moggie57 Wed 19-Jun-19 12:10:05

thankyou sharon. have seen the dr's today .he didnt recommend anti depressant as i got mild epilepsy and this doesnt help. but am going for ENT and head scan. see if theres any thing else making me so spaced out.somedays i cant think straight. maybe she embarressed that i am like this.i think i will get her and me some councilling to find out why she is so nasty to me.if i speak out it makes me upset .just the way i am....she knows it upsets me. it like she likes what she's doing.

moggie57 Wed 19-Jun-19 12:11:21

thankyou sharon. have seen the dr's today .he didnt recommend anti depressant as i got mild epilepsy and this doesnt help. but am going for ENT and head scan. see if theres any thing else making me so spaced out.somedays i cant think straight. maybe she embarressed that i am like this.i think i will get her and me some councilling to find out why she is so nasty to me.if i speak out it makes me upset .just the way i am....she knows it upsets me. it like she likes what she's doing...

moggie57 Wed 19-Jun-19 12:17:21

i already do a lot . i work voluntary for salvation army charity shop. i go out days with my brother. or go walking...i dont rely on my daughter for anything .because if i ask to visit her .i get the answer we busy. or the gc have an after school learning no day is free for her. / then other days gc have girls and boys brigade.before during summer holidays i had gc on tuesdays all day ,this has now stopped as they are busy..........i really need to sit down with daughter and ask her why she so nasty.

moggie57 Wed 19-Jun-19 12:27:25

many many thanks tillybelle for the uplifting words.i can understand the anger bits as i felt like that mum died. i just never seen it that way...she doesnt do it to they both share the same grief.but i think my daughter needs some more councilling. being baptised means loving god/jesus and bring her into the church family.i'm just dreading her testimony....i wonder if this week i can sit with the other members of sil family. not going to be pushed out this time. need to stand firm.thankyou to everyone for your kind words and some i dont agree with. my daughter is mine and i love her lots .i could not turn away from her.

sharon103 Wed 19-Jun-19 13:53:17

Wishing you well Moggie and I really hope things work out well for you eventually and glad to hear that keeping yourself occupied most days. Hugs and flowers

Tillybelle Wed 19-Jun-19 15:22:13

God bless you moggie57. It's so good to hear from you. I would try to prepare yourself for your Daughter's Testimonial to have a lot about her MiL in it, I think she is going through a kind of "Craze" on her! Don't repeat that please! I really do to mean to demean her relationship with her, but I am sure that both of them feel closer to their man who died and feels a link to him when they are together. I was very close to a man - not in a Partners or going out together way, indeed I believe he was a non practising gay guy. Anyway he died terribly suddenly. In the months after his death, his mother, with whom he was living at the time of his death and who was a widow, kept phoning me. She said that talking to me made her feel closer to him and I brought him back for her because I knew him very well. That is why I think your daughter is so close to her late husband's mother and the late husband's mother so close to your daughter. Both of them feel they can bring him back through each other. It may take several months but it will slowly fade. Gradually they will loosen their attachment and need for each other.

I wholly agree that your daughter would benefit from Counselling. Who wouldn't after their young husband died? She definitely would benefit. I expect you know that at some points, not at the very beginning but a little way in, people can, while in counselling, become difficult. So just hang on and let it pass. There are some rocky things to work through, especially with such tremendous grief.

I shall pray for you, especially at your daughter's Baptism. Again, just in case the seating arrangement is made difficult for you I would try and find a friend who can support you. Be prepared that it might be hard. I too have been through a similar very hard ceremony in Church and I can simply say, you will get through it, it won't last for ever! People will know you and love you and everybody will know the very sad background. I cried all the way through the ceremony I mentioned even though I did not want to but I couldn't help it. I do hope yours does not last too long! Just try not to expect too much and be prepared if things don't work out how you would like.

It is so good to hear from you!

I shall keep you in my prayers and your grandson and daughter. Trust in the Lord, He will hold you and will understand the pain.
With Christian Love, and Prayers, Elle x 🌈✞ 💐🌺

nanee Thu 20-Jun-19 08:38:50

I have good reason to empathise with both of you. It sounds like you may be suffering a little from misunderstandings. Your daughter must be under bearly tolerable stress (been there myself). She probably is under pressure from the inlaws and just sees you as adding to it. Try and make sure she knows that you're there for her, but accept a back seat if thats all she can offer you for now. Maybe the priest should sort this out, but she'll not thank you for interferring when she is trying to be strong. You all need to be strong for the children, but I cant see why you shouldnt have equal inclusion. Maybe there's something she or you are not saying, due to stress, but try not to leave it too late?

paddyann Thu 20-Jun-19 09:01:35

doesn't "respect" have to be earned sharon and that goes both ways .The OP clearly had issues with her deceased SIL fact I think I remember a previous post by her saying so.Maybe this is the fallout from that time and her daughter is clinging to the woman who loved him as much as she did .We only know one side of the story ,she already mentioned a falling out and that although she has forgiven she hasn't forgot ..maybe she doesn't act as if she has "forgiven" if she hasn't put it behind her and supported a grieving young mum and child UNCONDITIONALLY any mother should .I hope the baptism isn't a search for peace because religion may not be the way to go to find it but I wish this young woman only well.I cant imagine how I would hav ecoped widowed young with a wee baby

moggie57 Thu 20-Jun-19 10:23:18

todays the day i see my pastor. will tell him all that you told me.. am really nervous because i know how my daughter is going to react. she will say that i'm always getting at mil .when actually i'm not .it was a simple question whether mil was coming or daughter wont let me do anything for her .even hold her hand or cuddle her.anyway must get dressed. chat later / xxxxx

Summerlove Thu 20-Jun-19 14:14:19

Good luck today moggie. I hope this helps you find peace

Starlady Fri 21-Jun-19 00:08:58

Moggie, so good to hear from you again, and to see that you have been to your GP and are seeing your pastor. I'm glad, also, that you're honest enough with yourself (and us) to realize that DD may not be comfortable with the "spacey" thinking or with the way you sometimes talk to yourself, etc. Also, I agree with those who say her attitude may have been affected by the fact that you had issues with her beloved H when he was alive and have had issues with her MIL whom she now feels close to.

In fact, that may be why she misinterpreted your question about MIL. You said something like, "Is MIL coming?" but, possibly, DD heard, "I hope your MIL isn't coming!" No one likes to have to watch their words, but, maybe, for the time being, it would be wiser not to mention her MIL at all, unless DD mentions her to you?

Starlady Fri 21-Jun-19 00:11:25

Also, I hope it's not insensitive to ask, but does DD still call you "Mum" or "Mummy?" Or even "Mother?" Maybe she's just trying to suggest that MIL is like a "second Mum?"

Starlady Fri 21-Jun-19 00:21:23

I'm afraid if you ask her why she's "so nasty," she'll just deny it or get mad. IMO, it would be better to ask her why she calls MIL her mum and why she excludes you from things.

Please be cautious if you do this though. You may not like or even understand her replies. And it would be very natural for you to want to defend yourself/argue with her, etc. I just hope you decide to think it all over instead and run it by us to see what we make of it.... Just a thought...

moggie57 Sat 22-Jun-19 10:37:37

ok update on how things went. they didnt.pastor didnt show up .he didnt reaslise i wanted to speak to him in prayer room. anyway have now found out that my d and gc are at mil in kent today. she said WE are celebrating gs birthday in kent....i said had a lovely time.(biting) back a retort.. then sunday the day my d batism is. i asked my d what she was doing after the service. thought i might take her and gc to lunch. NO says d WE are going to lunch. (mil and husband and other siblings of husband)what about me ? she said its family only!!! i'm family says me. no she says its not her arrangement. i did speak to my pastor on the phone. told him what was happening. can see me breaking down in church .i want to go as its my d getting baptised .i only have her.pastor says i need counselling with my daughter .i agreed .thursday evening was nice as i went home with gc for a few hours . all i was offered was a cup of tea.was there for about 2 hours in all.. she had she known i was staying for a few hours she would have had dinner for me. i said a sandwich would be ok. oh says she .no bread.. oh says me. a biscuit maybe. not in front of the children. so i didnt get any wondering what to wear tomorrow as gd was saying she was wearing a dress. troble is i dont like dresses .so just plain black trousers and a nice top, d says a dress please....i cant afford new clothes. so it will be trousers after all.i should be able to wear what i want.

moggie57 Sat 22-Jun-19 10:50:30

we had this out on mothers day last year. i actually got very emotional in church.d was going to mil as she did every sunjday. i asked mil why she thought it was ok to have d on this day,and she said she never thought anything about it as sunday d always went to her house. told my d that she was my d and that she should be at my home for mothers the end i said well maybe you can come for tea instead. so thats what happened. mil and her family are very controlling. its like my d doesnt have a choice in anything. i remember when she first started seeing sil ,and he was saying something and i said d can make her own mind up. he said i was only advising her.. so mil and her family have kind of taken over my d and dont bother about anyone else. especially me..but for my d to urn round and say why would i think that mil would not come up for the baptism and that she was my d mum.. i said i was only asking. very very hurt then. church lady i talked to instead of pastor .said stand up to d and tell her that she beeing rude and hurtful.i dont want to spoil my daughters special day.but am upset as i write this.pastor says her testimony is not about me but about her troubled teenage years .i told him i never heard or know anything of this.its was news to me.she was always around mil house when she was about 15.she met sil at church youth club.

Smileless2012 Sat 22-Jun-19 13:20:23

Oh dear moggieflowers. Of course we all hope that the baptism goes well but be prepared. If your D's testimony is about her "troubled teenage years" you an bet you'll be in there somewhere.

She's treating you very badly and this is clearly being enabled, condoned and possibly encouraged by her in lawsangry.

Of course you should be able to wear what you want but you probably realise that wearing trouser will be a good 'excuse' for her to have a go. I hope she doesn't but I'm sorry to say it is a distinct possibility.

We'll all be thinking of you and please let us know when you can, how it went.

Summerlove Sat 22-Jun-19 20:22:58

I’m sorry moggie.

I think you’ll need to go and prepare to just plaster a smile on your face regardless of what is said.

Regarding no food for two hours, if I had unexpected company for two hours with a small child I would have a hard time scrounging something to offer. Food in the house was usually allocated to meals. I’m sure she wasn’t trying to be hurtful.

Jaycee5 Sun 23-Jun-19 10:36:05

It sounds as if you need someone other than your pastor. If he is counselling your daughter then, if he were a professional counsellor, he would consider counselling you a conflict. Whether he acknowledges that or not (and he does seem to be trying to hang back), I can't see that it will help you at this stage. See someone for yourself and then the Pastor could possibly do some family counselling if she would agree. The advice from his assistant to confront your daughter is fine if you are prepared to accept that she will probably react in a hostile way and you will cause more damage to the relationship. You need help with knowing how to confront her if that is what you choose to do.
It does sound a bit as if she wants to withdraw from you for now and that might be best for both of you. I had to do it from my mother for a while but we have a good relationship now.
Good luck anyway.

Starlady Sun 23-Jun-19 10:54:20

It seems as if you and DD clash over styles, etc. If she and MIL share the same taste, and so on, that may be why D seems to feel so close to her. Her attitude does seem extreme, no doubt.

As far as style is concerned, some things, like how you wear your hair are none of her business. Nor did she have any right to try to tell you what to wear on Mothering Sunday. If she wants people to dress up a little for her baptism, IMO, that's a different matter. I understand if you prefer trousers to dresses - I do too. But I'll wear a dress to formal occasions and would wear one for a special event of my DD's if she asked me to. As Smileless says, if you don't, DD may "have a go at you." Or just use it as another excuse to avoid/exclude you. Please think it over carefully.

Here's hoping all goes well!

Starlady Sun 23-Jun-19 11:06:14

Also, I agree you need to find your own, individual counselor. Seeking advice from your pastor isn't going to work right now, IMO, and he's giving you signals that it won't.

The fact that D has been spending time w/ MIL since she was 15, suggests to me that MIL has been a big influence in D's life. Do your issues regarding MIL and D go back to those early days?

Have you read the book, Toxic Inlaws, by Susan Forward? It describes different kinds of "toxic" ILs. One section is about what the author calls "Engulfers." These are people who welcome their new DIL or SIL into their family (yay!), but try to become totally enmeshed w/ them, to sort of swallow them up, so to speak. That may be what D's ILs have done w/ her. That might explain why she even calls MIL her "mum."

D may have turned to MIL b/c of clashes between the 2 of you. But to act as if her ILs are her family and you're not - that's just so extreme and bizarre that I can't help but think something more is going on here. I could be wrong, of course.

Starlady Sun 23-Jun-19 11:14:31

"If your D's testimony is about her "troubled teenage years" you an bet you'll be in there somewhere."

I agree. Please brace yourself. Hopefully, though, there will be a clue in there as to why she's acting the way she is. If you feel comfortable, please let us know the gist of what she says.

"thursday evening was nice as i went home with gc for a few hours ."

Good! How did this come about?

moggie57 Tue 25-Jun-19 11:55:57

well baptism went ok .i actually sat next ti mil..she said hello... testimony wasnt that bad and it featured her life with her husband and his illness and passing. was very emotional.i actually went and sat next to her when she was finished as a song was played that her and hubby liked.afterwards had photos taken by a friend.wanted to stand next to d so i told mil in law she was still my little matter what she calls you....they went out to lunch. family only . not me i'm not family. lol... so went to carvery with some other church friends.ther friction between me and mil in law goes back to the 1990's before d met hubby.. another story.apart from that day went quite well

Summerlove Tue 25-Jun-19 12:04:54

I’m glad it went as well as it could.

Smileless2012 Wed 26-Jun-19 20:24:38

Thanks for letting us know how it went I'm pleased it wasn't too awful for youflowers

Namsnanny Thu 27-Jun-19 01:47:32

moggie… just caught up with your thread, and I too am very glad the day went off with no aggression towards you.

I might not have gone if I were in your shoes, because of the amount of negativity shown to you. So well done.

Starlady Thu 27-Jun-19 02:48:31

Glad to hear it went well! And that D's testimony didn't say anything negative about you.

If you and MIL have issues dating back to before D even met her deceased DH, then that may have something to do w/ what's going on. If D feels close to MIL b/c of a shared loss, and she knows you and MIL don't really get on, that might explain why she goes to lunch w/ MIL and excludes you. I'm so sorry about this, but I think that's what it is.