Does anyone else feel that they have been treated unkindly more often by women than by men? I have not dared to do this before so please be nice.

Violettham

So sorry I didnt mean relationships I meant women sales assistants etc

Is it because women tend, or have tended to be in these type of jobs than men? I must admit...I do generally find men much more pleasant as a sweeping statement. The worst people I’ve tended to encounter have been receptionists, so schools, doctors etc. They’re usually women.

The last job I worked in I was bullied by a less well qualified and younger woman. She never stopped talking - it was like working with a tannoy except that you can turn a tannoy off! She was also very demanding and seemed to have been taught no social skills by her parents. Such as when I said "I need to get on with this now" she just went on talking. I dont think this young woman intended to be a bully per se. She just did not understand social cues.

We had a female line manager who could have dealt with the problem (as I myself dealt when I had overly chatty team members) but she just kicked it into the long grass.

I wont go into further detail but the bullying by the young colleague, the failure to act by the line manager and head of department cost the organization 10 grand in an out of court settlement.

Well done Violettham, a good discussion!

In general I haven't found women treating me worse than men, but it the work place, oh yes, very much so! One woman I helped to get a job at my place of work then went on to make constant derogatory and untrue comments about me, copied to everyone on emails. If you work in the NHS, bullying is part of the culture, and with 80% of the staff women, I suppose it seems more do it.

I had a good friendship between myself and another worker destroyed by a manager. We used to go out for meals as a foursome with my colleague and his wife, I used to go to the cinema with her and babysit for them, but this manager called a meeting and accused me in front of the partners of 'an inappropriate relationship' with him. We denied it, but it frightened him off, I think the partners told him to drop contact.

I have had male and female bosses and have generally felt valued and been treated well by them all.

However, when I became a boss it was made very clear to me that one member of staff, female, was not happy to have a woman boss. She even told another member of staff that she didn't want to work for a woman.

She had never been very good at her job and was lazy. She got by by being good looking and flirting and buttering up her previous male bosses. The other members of staff didn't like this as they did the majority of the work.

She handed in her notice a month after I started and the others were glad to see her go and appreciated being valued for their work and not their looks.

No, I haven't found it at all, in the workplace or outside of it.

Obviously outside of work there are some people you don't get on with or fit with but I find most women within friendships or family have an understanding of one another that men don't. Which most probably sounds just as sexist but I think it's true. I really miss my carers (female) group, which we cannot have because of covid, as we had a level of openness and understanding with one another that never even bordered on critical. It gave me strength and I'm sure it did for others too.

Lucca, your objection is interesting and has made me think.

It is not a good thing, but it is current social reality that men have been and to some extent still are better educated and more widely experienced than women, especially among older people. It is this aspect of mens' life experience and expectancy that allows me personally to have felt safer in men's company.

This is not to say I have not met kind and reasonable women, who I may say have largely been poor, realistic, and hard working. I could tell some cheerful stories about these women but I would not diverge from the topic in hand.

Agree Lucca. Totally.

I do not think good humour tolerance and reason are only found in men. They are found in some men and not others, in some women and not others.

I will try to explain Lucca, various comments, says watch your back, not straightforward. How many women in groups, don't criticise a mutual 'friend', always good humoured, but doesnt stop that way, you must conform, even at the school gate, you don't hear men do that. A few trusted good women friends are worth their weight in gold, I do not like huge groups of women together and try to avoid, not always possible if you belong to WI, I pity newcomers in mine, trying to infiltrate established cliques. I tried to get a ruling no bags on seats, vote yes, but it didn't happen, even the committee fell out.

Alexa

Lucca wrote:

"Why are these “masculine qualities”?. Genuine question"

That shows my bias towards men, Lucca.

Still don’t understand.

Lucca wrote:

"Why are these “masculine qualities”?. Genuine question"

That shows my bias towards men, Lucca.

Apart from my ex, I have never met a man who wasn't nice to me. One the other hand I have been hurt by several women. My first boss was a bitch. If she could get you into trouble she would. I lived on tenterhooks all the time. I've also had two 'friends' who turn out to be anything but and hurt me deeply. My sister...well best left unsaid. Nasty comments when I met my DH suggesting that I was punching above my weight and hadn't I been lucky to get him. Yes he is handsome and charming but I didn't think I was that bad , Women can be evil in the way they destroy you. Men (apart from ex) have never been like that to me.

Anyone else think good humour tolerance and reason are ‘masculine” qualities ? I’m sitting here looking daft with my jaw on the floor

Yes, I have definitely encountered this throughout my working life and still experiencing it at age 65 in the workplace.
In 2006 I was bullied so badly I decided to leave the workplace I was in after only being on a contract for 6 months and taking on a mortgage.
From that point I have never been on a permanent contract since, always temped or been on a zero hours type of contract.
Due to this I have missed out on paid holiday, sickness benefits etc, however, when you are on zero hours you have more choice and that changes the mind set. You still need to be a conscientious worker and be able to source work yourself. In fact as a recruitment consultant pointed out to me: "you are having to think like your self employed in order to survive."
And in most workplaces I've noticed women treating other women really badly. So much for the sisterhood!!
Polices are everywhere, but in practice most of them don't actually work.
Recently I've noticed that people who have been working remotely feel happier because they are escaping the anxiety caused by bullying environment and that seems to be why they are reluctant to return.
Bullying can be hard to prove as it's usually more to do with atmosphere and body language, more than what is actually said.
Very high heels and long nails are often used as a form of power expression. This seems to be a modern theme, also noticeable on daytime TV!
But when you get to working in your sixties, you can be disliked for different reasons. Maybe someone in your office thinks her younger sister should be doing your job, (after all you've got a pension coming, so they sort of reason it as being fair), so all she has to do is be mean to you, off you go and the way is clear.

Maybe it's me but I have been treated pretty shabbily by 2 female friends over the years.Now I realise I was being used.And my first experiences at work in the NHS of cliques of women ,and seeing how they treated other women made me very wary.Not directed at me,but now I would speak up because it was bullying and intimidation.The best manager I ever worked with was a man.Kind,compassionate and totally professional.
I have a few very trusted and lovely women friends now.I guess it all comes down to your personal experience. I have a lovely DH and two brothers and have always felt very easy in male company but then I know some truly good ones .

Alexa

Men have generally been nicer than women. The few women who have been nice have what I think of as masculine qualities of tolerance, good humour, and reason.

Why are these “masculine qualities”?. Genuine question

Masculine qualities

Men have generally been nicer than women. The few women who have been nice have what I think of as masculine qualities of tolerance, good humour, and reason.

Worked in the NHS for many years, came across two awful bullies, both women in Senior positions. They thought it gave them carte blanche to humiliate and demean those working with them, including men. Bullies in school, the girls, so not surprised.

In a work situation, I found women more unkind, the worst boss I had was a woman. I generally found men more straight forward to deal with.

I'm very lucky as I have never been aware of being treated unkindly by anyone.

No, I haven't experienced this particularly. And in my experience female medical staff have been gentler and more understanding of female issues I've had than their male counterparts.

I don’t feel as if I’ve been treated unkindly by anybody!

Generally speaking, no.

However, women gynaecologists are in my experience ruder and heavier handed than their male colleagues.

Presumably, I have just been unfortunate with the women doctors who have chosen this particular feild to specialise in.

I noticed that men seem more likely to take credit for something a female has actually done than vice versa. On the other hand I think women take the prize for sustained bitchiness. Men seem to challenge, make a nasty comment, then move on, at least the ones I have dealt with