If it would help I would delay my vaccination to get children into school.

Lucca

“ Education is as important as life itself; these children cannot make up the lost time”
Do you know I think they could. It’s not ideal but possible.

I agree that they could make up the time. But maybe this is a moment to reflect on what 'education' actually is. The current model is based on something that's pretty Victorian when you think about it. Do children, for example, need to know algebra? (I quite liked it - essentially it was puzzle-solving, but for what?) Sources of information are so different now from how they were in our schooldays. Perhaps it's time to look at the curriculum for each subject and concentrate of what is important now, rather than what used to be.

I would happily give my vaccine to my teacher daughter or son and son in law who work on the railways but that would be far too complicated to organise wouldn’t it.

Don't mess the NHS about. Have your jabs when its your turn. Getting as many as possible vaccinated is the only way to beat this disease. No one can give anyone else their vaccine. Just get it done. Any one of us fit or otherwise could catch it and add to the workload of our doctors and nurses who are stretched as it is. Hopefully teachers will be added to the list soon. Take care and follow the rules. I do get angry when I read of people flouting the don't mix rule. The sooner we do as instructed the sooner we can get back to normal - can you remember - seeing friends for coffee and lunch and hugging our grandchildren. Best of luck to you all.

I wondered why they were vaccinating the older people first. My DH was contemplating the same as you.

My son, who is aParamedic, said that he would be doing more harm than good. The order of vaccination has to do with who would cause the most damage to the NHS if they were sick.

He has seen so many people who have followed the rules, been very healthy and then getting COVID. The truth is that if you get it you might be blocking a bed for one of the people you were hoping to protect. Older people are taking much longer than the young ones to recover and are in greater need of hospitalisation.

In addition you will cause more admin for the NHS by delaying.

I think there are very many people who feel like you and my DH I hope, for all our sakes, everyone will vaccinate when they are called.

I agree with paperbackwriter, there does seem to be a possiblilty that the primary curriculum could be trimmed a little. I don't think that it is impossible to make time to catch up in essential subjects, it might mean forgoing some things that they enjoy such as studying Greeks and Romans, fossils, dinosaurs etc. etc. My children all spent many hours on these and I have wondered if it was always time well spent.
Perhaps they could forgo the mask creation, model making etc and be given really interesting and informative books about these topics? Then those who are really interested can take it further (this might encourage reading in boys too).
Perhaps the long-term damage will be in the lack of exercise and poor nutrition that some children will have suffered throughout the past year.
Secondary school is a different matter, though I agree that some of the more advanced GCSE maths is absolutely irrelevant to many children. The same may be true for other subjects. It is a shame that children don't read more, so many less important topics could be covered by reading well written interesting books if only they could be successfully encouraged to engage with them individually.

Of couse I can't give my vaccination to anybody. But I do question a decision to vaccinate which is entirely age based. It is much easier for older people to isolate and distance themselves, in fact as the weather worsens many of us will be stayng indoors anyway.
As for education it isn't just the teaching that bothers me, it's the socialisation, the playground games, the interaction that goes on in schools and which our grandchildren are not getting. I'm not sure about the age the vaccines could be used, but I'm sure vaccinated staff would mean there was more chance of a school staying open. If all children and sttaff can't be done then perhaps the exam years and staff could be. You may all know that failing at 16 &18 isn't a life destroying incident, but young people don't, for them it's devastating.

Write to the JVCI. The decisions were made in September and I'm reasonably happy that they've stuck to their guns, based on clinical reasons.

cc

I agree with paperbackwriter, there does seem to be a possiblilty that the primary curriculum could be trimmed a little. I don't think that it is impossible to make time to catch up in essential subjects, it might mean forgoing some things that they enjoy such as studying Greeks and Romans, fossils, dinosaurs etc. etc. My children all spent many hours on these and I have wondered if it was always time well spent.
Perhaps they could forgo the mask creation, model making etc and be given really interesting and informative books about these topics? Then those who are really interested can take it further (this might encourage reading in boys too).
Perhaps the long-term damage will be in the lack of exercise and poor nutrition that some children will have suffered throughout the past year.
Secondary school is a different matter, though I agree that some of the more advanced GCSE maths is absolutely irrelevant to many children. The same may be true for other subjects. It is a shame that children don't read more, so many less important topics could be covered by reading well written interesting books if only they could be successfully encouraged to engage with them individually.

I don't think the secondary curriculum is any different. Some subjects, such as languages and maths, are linear, but most aren't. Don't forget that many pupils in the UK don't learn any geography or history (or other subjects) after the age of 14 anyway. There are arguments about providing a broader curriculum (I'm not gong there), but I seriously don't think adults suffer that much from not learning about the Tudors or town planning in Nigeria (or whatever). Ask yourself how much content of the secondary school curriculum has ever been of any use.

The main purpose of learning in Key Stage 4 is to pass exams, which open the next door and so it goes on. There is absolutely no reason why pupils of a given age should know a certain body of knowledge, other than to pass exams. There is already support for abolishing GCSEs since the school leaving age has effectively been raised to 18.

littleflo

I wondered why they were vaccinating the older people first. My DH was contemplating the same as you.

My son, who is aParamedic, said that he would be doing more harm than good. The order of vaccination has to do with who would cause the most damage to the NHS if they were sick.

He has seen so many people who have followed the rules, been very healthy and then getting COVID. The truth is that if you get it you might be blocking a bed for one of the people you were hoping to protect. Older people are taking much longer than the young ones to recover and are in greater need of hospitalisation.

In addition you will cause more admin for the NHS by delaying.

I think there are very many people who feel like you and my DH I hope, for all our sakes, everyone will vaccinate when they are called.

Read the JVCI guidelines for the reasoning behind vaccinating older people first.

I’m not going to have the vaccine until every single health care worker, care worker, education worker, transport employees, essential shop workers and person over 70 etc etc has been vaccinated. I wonder when that will be?

It seems a simple and pretty clear cut plan.
Save lives and keep the NHS from being overwhelmed.
The data studies have clearly proven that the older you are, the more likely you are to be seriously ill. Current health, stamina, fitness etc don’t influence the prognosis.
Seriously ill people require hospital treatment and the hospitals soon become full and start to struggle. This affects everyone - health workers, accident victims, people requiring operations or hospital treatments etc.
If you vaccinate all the older people and they stay at home and follow all the rules, you’ll be in a superior position to deal with the rest.

Whilst I can see that children might not need to know about the Romans, Ancient Egypt, etc, these things help to keep reading and writing interesting. A lot of the basic academic work is terribly dull for children and they need to be able to undertake it in a more interesting way.
There is so much education that can be done at home for younger children. Following recipes, looking at maps to decide a walking route, tv programmes, computer games, etc. Ok, not a "formal" education but one that can be just as valuable if tackled in a fun way. Older children and university students can be taught online. Self motivation is a good skill to learn and will teach them far more in the long run than sitting in the classroom. Everybody is in the same boat so their competitive element in the rest of their lives won't be diminished. It may just take them longer to get there but maturity helps a lot with learning so they might even find it easier in the long run.

I agree with you growstuff I think that some secondary school subjects have topics that are largely irrelevant to most people in later life - though it could be argued that we can't pick out which teenagers will find them useful later on. I suppose the main problem is science where students have to have a solid grounding to take the subject further. There is already a huge leap from GCSE to A level and then from A level to degree level. And many people are "late developers" who don't take an interest in a subject until they are older. I would assume that it is difficult to identify which children would be very good at science or maths at an early age.
When I was at school the maths O level was pretty basic and only people who enjoyed maths were encouraged to take O* level which prepared them for A level. I suppose that the double science GCSE versus single subject sciences is the same today, though that raises the issue of private versus state school science teaching and shortage of funding.

trisher your post speaks so much sense, not just as an educationalist but as someone who recognises what damage can be caused to children who cannot socialise with their peers. School becomes their little world, their real world, where they learn so many lifeskills.
You're right that failure at a young age is devastating. I pray we can whizz through these vaccines and get the elderly sorted so that our future generations can not just get on with their lives, but have their young lives back.

I would gladly let my vaccine go to someone more worthy. I have been housebound since last March and only people who have been in my house are my help, her deputy, podiatrist, district nurse and my son on four occasions. At the age of 97 I have had a good life so let someone younger to live.
Regarding education. My mother was deaf until she was fourteen, 1914, when she had an operation which meant she could hear in one ear. So she had almost no schooling. But she read a lot so educated herself that way and was able to help us children a lot.

Yes icanhandthemback I agree, more variety in topics makes things more interesting but I wish topics could also be useful topics! I also wish that children could be encouraged to read more. Self-motivation is great and if you want to know more about something there is no substitute for reading, be it a book or online.

cc It's because it would be impossible, if not unethical, to decide at birth what's going to be important to each individual that I think all children should have a broad education, not that they do in the current UK system with grammar and private schools.

However, at times rationalising is necessary and I would argue that much of the school curriculum is wasted. It's really not that difficult to "catch up" (catch up with what?) if the will is there. I help pupils to do it all the time. Most of my students achieve the highest grade. That's not because I'm a brilliant tutor, but because I know how to pass exams. I can see where a pupil is not ticking the right boxes and I help them do it.

It's totally different teaching adults, who are actually interested in what they're studying and aren't bothered about jumping through hoops or reaching certain levels in a set sequence at a given time.

cc

Yes icanhandthemback I agree, more variety in topics makes things more interesting but I wish topics could also be useful topics! I also wish that children could be encouraged to read more. Self-motivation is great and if you want to know more about something there is no substitute for reading, be it a book or online.

There is no substitute for an enquiring mind and the ability to learn independently. The pupils and students with those qualities will come out of this on top.

My son left school at sixteen with only few GCEs but by hard work became a director of a multi national and was able to retire at the age of 57 a fairly wealthy man. Then through the Open University got his Masters degree.

However healthy you are as an older person, however many classes and groups you attend and how active you are you still have the internal organs of a person your age. It is selfish and arrogant to say you are fit and healthy and will go down the vaccine list in favour of someone else.
If at 70: or even 65 you caught the virus chances are that you would be very ill and need intervention and hospital care. Also if people start saying give vaccine to somebody else it is going to throw the vaccine programme into disarray.
The best thing to do is do as we are all told, stay indoors, wait for the letter and gratefully go for the Jab when called.

If I thought it would help I would willingly give up my place in the queue to a medic/teacher. However I agree that as an older person if I catch the virus I am more likely to need hospital care. What a dilemma.

growstuff I agree, people develop interests and skills at all stages of life. I finished a degree in my 40s, also used to teach adults and know that it is never to late to learn. But I was lucky to be able to do this - not everyone can afford the time later in life.
I think that secondary schooling is such a difficult balancing act between giving everybody a chance to develop an interest in a subject, giving them a broad enough education to prepare them for life - but not stuffing them with information (typically just for exams) that they are not likely to need later.
All a bit off the topic posted by the OP I'm afraid - sorry...

Oh I don't mind things going off at a tangent. For those who thnk I'm a rabid "keep them in schools" advocate my DS was out of school from aged 14 and yes he's done very well. But while he was out of school he had a very active social life and a huge circle of friends thanks to a youth organisation and a friend in out of school education.The problem now is that all of those things are on-line or closed and the ways there once were into education for older people are gradually being eroded.

Yes, there is a lot of teaching monkeys tricks to pass exams, but we have to measure academic achievement somehow, and exams have proved to be a fairly effective method.
I agree that those who think for themselves often excel most and this is often down to what we are born with. If you give me the parts for Thomas the Tank I recognise I can't possibly build Henry the Helicopter, brilliant teacher or not. It is not possible to buy all children a brain, but they should all be given a broader and value added education. Time to rethink the system.

I read an article about a young refugee who arrived in UK aged 8 not speaking a word of English, she completed her time in the British education system by going to uni and obtaining a law degree. With determination it is possible to survive a year out of school and still attain a decent level of education, personally I think the teachers are doing a grand job with online teaching. The biggest problem for our children is the lack of socialisation not the lack of education.