Second vaccine dose timing

I hope there isn’t a petition. I think we need to accept this is the way forward, and get as many people vaccinated ASAP.

I agree with Calendargirl surely it’s better that a greater number of people have some degree of protection than fewer people have more protection.

There’s already a long thread about this, gagajo and the issues have been discussed ad nauseam.

www.gransnet.com/forums/coronavirus/1290154-Joan-Bakewell-vaccine-legal-challenge
Joan Bakewell is applying for permission for a Judicial Review into the legality of delaying the second dose.
You could contribute to her legal fees if you feel that strongly.

How would you feel if she was granted permission and that suspended the vaccination programme for everyone else?

In direct response jainainsworth, I would prefer that the advice of the scientists, the makers of the vaccine and the real world evidence were followed. Not decisions made by people who are just giving everyone the first injection just to have a good political soundbite.

I would rather NOT have the first vaccine if I can't have the second one within the correct timeframe.

Aaaarggggg!

IT WAS THE SCIENTISTS WHO MADE THE DECISION!

I know I'm shouting, but really, reasoned argument is getting us nowhere. Ill informed comments from people who have no idea how scientific decisions are made commenting on manufacturers recommendations at nauseam, and now we have references to the real world evidence, which I assume is the half hearted, pre-publication numbers from Israel?

If it's that important, go and support Dame Joan on her little crowdfunder for the scientifically and statistically challenged.

Gagajo well then the answer is simple don’t have the first vaccine and let someone else have it. The government are doing the right thing in giving people some protection and preventing severe symptoms requiring hospitalisation. Eighteen hundred people died yesterday.

What Alegrias1 said

I don't think you need to be rude Alegrias1

Well said Gwyneth and the above. Some (any) degree of protection is surely better than none? People who refuse the vaccine should sign a disclaimer and donate their dose! As for JB - I’m sure I read she’s having memory problems or something similar. Not joking, but didn’t she go off on holiday leaving her car engine running!

Scientists abroad are horrified at this decision. I think we're really in unknown and dangerous territory.

The vaccine was trialled and approved for use based on a two dose regime.
At no point has any manufacturer suggested that one dose would work long term, or that spacing out doses would be harmless.
What if protection declines rapidly after a single dose and four months down the line those who had the initial single dose end up more prone to a virulent mutated virus?
We are being used as guinea pigs in an unethical experiment.
I’m with GagaJo on this.

Georgesgran. The people who are getting the vaccination without being assured that they will get the second one in line with manufacturers instructions, are the ones who should have to sign to say they are aware they are taking an untested product.

None of that was rude NotSpaghetti, it is all factual and I know I was shouting, but really. Day after day, unfounded and ill informed comments about non existent "manufacturers' instructions" from people who have no idea how the approvals process works. Laying the blame at the feet of the government when its the recommendation of the scientists as a way of getting us out of this situation as quickly as possible.

I think its wicked and self serving to keep bringing up these ill founded concerns based on half-truths we read in the press, and it could dissuade people with sincere vaccine hesitancy from taking the vaccine, then what kind of mess will we be in?

There have been many posts here with evidence about how the extended dose is the right approach, but all we get is "Well Pfizer didn't support it". Why is no-one pointing out that Pfizer said they have 52% effectiveness but Israel are only seeing 33%? (Becuase their trial base is older probably, if you are interested) The manufacturer's comments are only valid when people think they support their own world view.

And Daisymae - have you got any examples of the Horror that these scientists are showing? Because I have plenty of examples of scientists saying its the right thing to do in our circumstances.

So which scientists do we believe?
I'm not being facetious; I genuinely don't understand who are the people to trust on this?

Esspee

The vaccine was trialled and approved for use based on a two dose regime.
At no point has any manufacturer suggested that one dose would work long term, or that spacing out doses would be harmless.
What if protection declines rapidly after a single dose and four months down the line those who had the initial single dose end up more prone to a virulent mutated virus?
We are being used as guinea pigs in an unethical experiment.
I’m with GagaJo on this.

The vaccine was trialled and approved for use based on a two dose regime. - It was approved by the MHRA based on two doses. Your point?

At no point has any manufacturer suggested that one dose would work long term, or that spacing out doses would be harmless. Oxford Zeneca have done exactly this.

What if protection declines rapidly after a single dose ...
i.e. what if our own immune systems work differently in this case to anything that has happened before in the history if the world? Possible, but rather unlikely.

Well said Alegrias, thank you.

I listened to a scientist who made this point in discussion. Dr Fauci is on record as saying he's not in favour. Israeli doctors are saying that their research indicates a much lower rate of protection after one jab and people have tested positive after one. The world is watching while we make a massive drug trial using one dose. The problem is that we don't know how it's going to turn out. Our record in management of the pandemic speaks for itself.

MissA, its not as clear cut as that unfortunately. I googled to find a scientist who disagreed with the lengthening of the gap; found one called Florian Krammer who put forward a realistic possibility that lengthening the gap could mean that people are susceptible to the virus for longer and that could mean that a new, dangerous strain could emerge. But in the same article (in Science) other scientists argued that while this was possible, the chances of that happening were very small in relation to the existing virus continuing to wipe out hundreds of people every day. So, on balance, the dose being delayed is a good thing. All the scientists are good scientists, but many non-scientific people only see the "mutant virus" part and that's enough to set them off on the "bad decision" route.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/could-too-much-time-between-doses-drive-coronavirus-outwit-vaccines

p.s. - see DaisyMae's comment above. Israeli Coronavirus Tsar says our approach is correct. Fauci's concern is that we don't have enough vaccine doses to get the second one to people after 12 weeks, not with the efficacy.

I won't get the vaccine in the UK. I will get it in Switzerland where I am currently living. Therefore I won't need to worry about the timing of the 2nd dose.

People in my school are already being called for their vaccinations so I think it is safe to assume I will have the 1st dose within a month.

Dr Fauci said that they know the optimal time for delivery of the second dose and they are sticking with that. Doesn't sound unreasonable.

OK, now I'm speechless......

Throw grenade, get everyone worked up and worried, tell us it won't affect you anyway.....

As I understand the situation it can take up to 3 weeks for your immune system response after the first dose. In these circumstances it is highly likely that some people will test positive after receiving the vaccine, however I believe the symptoms of Covid are vastly reduced.

I hope you get the gist of my post, multitasking and failing abysmally

That is my understanding too GG13.