Incredible shananigans to get kids in chosen schools?

I'm with the majority of posters who accept that most parents will do the best they can to give their children the best shot at a school that meets their needs/provides what their parents feel is best for them.

I found the tone of the OP a bit unpleasant, implying that parents in the UK are less honest or principled than those in other countries. I was a younger and more idealistic parent when my first child was born. On reflection I feel her education and also her social life was nothing like as positive as the one her younger sisters experienced. Oldest daughter went to a dire inner city primary school and it took her a couple of years to catch up when we moved back into a less deprived area.

I empathise with the suggestion faith schools be abolished, but I'm pleased my own children went to the faith high school. Now they're having children of their own, they all plan to send them to their old high school for the reasons given by TriciaF above (i.e. calm atmosphere etc)

Of course lucky girl is right, all schools should offer equally good opportunities, they don't though do they.

I agree, Iam64. Shenanigans are pranks and I wouldn't have described the plans we were considering, should DD2 not get a place at a decent school, a prank. It was far too stressful a time.

When we moved here in 1975 we were led to believe the primary schools were excellent. We had moved from a remote rural location in Norfolk with a first rate local school so it came as a shock to discover the educational expectations in East Cambs couldn't have been lower.

The youngest was still a baby but the two older ones only lasted two terms at the village primary. We removed them when I went into their classroom to collect one of them for a medical appointment and found the teacher eating chocolates and reading Womans Own admidst chaos.

With the help of our vicar we got them into an excellent CofE school in the next village but the head left after a couple of years and we were once again floundering with the school now under threat of closure.

We were not prepared to risk any of this during their secondary school years and would have gone to any lengths to prevent them going to the school in our catchment area which is still below standard even after thirty years.

The first meaning of 'shenanigans' in the online dictionary is 'secret or dishonest activity or manoeuvring', which I presumed what what the OP meant.

There again, it's all very well to ask what can be done to resolve the situation, but another to ask GN members for their 'worst experiences' of such practices, which isn't going to be helpful.

Excellent comments by thatbags and Durhamjen, thank you.

More 'influential' parents opting out of some schools do leave some schools to sink- sadly. And divided schools create a divided society- which, in the long run, is NOT in the interest of one's childrens' and GCs future, and society at large.

Which is clearly addressed by many northern European countries and here in Switzerland. No-one here send their children to private school, and the more influential parents ensure that the local schools are excellent, with excellent facilities- not just for their children, but for the benefit of all. The children of all sorts of people being at school together create a respect and understanding that lasts for life and a much more cohesive and children can see from a young age that they can access success via hard work.

Posts crossed- as we saw in the programme, if parents from outside the area cheat, with a finite number of places available- then it means someone else does not get the place. Dreadful business, truly.

In her post granjura implies that independent schools do not feature in Switzerland
no one here ends their children to private school
And yet the quickest ever Google search brought up the names of at least 20 independent schools including one of the most expensive schools in the world (I believe) Le Rosey.
These are not just for expats as the following quote, also from my Google search states;

Thoroughly Swiss and completely cosmopolitan
Switzerland’s private schools cater for nearly 100, 000 pupils from across Switzerland, as well as welcoming pupils from more than hundred other countries

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose?

Sends their children etc Oops again.

How weird, Alea. Why did you check?

I really don't think it's acceptable for parents to do whatever it takes to get their children into a school of their choice. I think part of educating children is teaching them to be honest and to try not to see themselves and their families as more important or deserving than anyone else.

I agree, Eloethan. When we sent our sons to the local schools, there were no league tables or anything like them. We moved around quite a lot when they were at school, but always sent them to the local one.
It's completely wrong in my opinion that parents have now been made to look for the "best" school to send their children to.

What made me look, DJ? As I said, the sweeping statement that no one here (in Switzerland) sends their children to a private school and the implication that education is exclusively a UK problem which doesn't exist elsewhere in N Europe plus that UK parents are up to "dodgy dealing".

Ah Alea, I said no-one here, eg where I live- sends their kid to private school- NOT Switzerland as a whole. There are some expat communities, like Geneva and Zurich, where expats have always chosen to send their kids (generally but not alo- I know some who wanted their children to integrate and learn the language, etc, but they are few) to private independent schools, that are often paid by the employer as part of a vast salary package. A few more low tax areas have now followed suit, like Zug, which is also full of expats. But generally, and certainly in rural areas- all the children go to the local school- whatever the parental background. Expats are putting more and more pressure ont he system here to change, and for parental choice (the concept does NOT exist- but of course it does in as much as you can pay for a house/flat in a better area- although generally 'areas' are much more mixed housing than the UK)- and this is being resisted very strongly- with my full backing (as a councillor on the education committee).

Some of the watch-makers here are multi-billionaires, but they choose to send their kids to the local school- all the professionals too- and they also spend time, effort and give financial support for extras, too- making the local schools better for ALL, not just their own kids. I like that. Having come back here after 39 years in the UK- I see the legacy of this every day- the doctor, the banker, the CEO of a large company, went to school with the guy at the cash till in Coop, or the one that clears the streets, or some of their workers - and it does have an effect on the way they behave towards each other and the way they respect each other. The all play at the same football or hockey club, or ski together at the ski-club- they know each other's families. I like that.

The education system here began much later, and was never saddled with the past history of 'public' ) (what a silly name!) - schools, and other private institutions, or religious schools, etc. A divided society begins at school- and the gap gets wider and wider- and is, in the end, NOT in the best interest of anyone, let alone one's own children.

Be it the NHS, or the school system. once parents/patients have voted out via their purse strings- they sadly no longer care about what happens to the rest. And it is a vicious circle. Wanted the best for your child should not be to the detriment of others- and does NOT have to. Supportive, influential parents can help schools be the best for all- and insist on it. Parents who pay upwards of 20.000 for their kids to get the best spend much time doing even more fund-raising and even more supporting, for those school and children- so what happens to the rest.

When we moved to our current house, the catchment area secondary school was 2 miles away, no direct bus and two major A roads to cross, one a dual carriageway.

The catchment map clearly showed our particular road as a 'one off' in the catchment area, having no relationship to the catchment schools for the roads either side!

On questioning the LA, no one could give a satisfactory answer, it 'just was'.

We sent our DS to the nearest secondary school, which although we were not in the catchment area it was on our side of the first major road, they could get a direct bus and if necessary walk.

Places were not easily come by, but at that time there was a High Court ruling about spare places going to the nearest children. ( now over ruled )

We were lucky, otherwise our choices might have been to move or home school.

DSs are much wiser and have bought houses in good local school areas.
I feel for the families who find themselves in this situation. All schools should offer an excellent quality of education to all children.
No government seems to be able to make this happen!

x

Be it the NHS, or the school system. once parents/patients have voted out via their purse strings- they sadly no longer care about what happens to the rest. And it is a vicious circle. Wanted the best for your child should not be to the detriment of others- and does NOT have to. Supportive, influential parents can help schools be the best for all- and insist on it. Parents who pay upwards of 20.000 for their kids to get the best spend much time doing even more fund-raising and even more supporting, for those school and children- so what happens to the rest

1) I don't agree with your initial premiss, whether it be the NHS or Education that anybody opting out of any system, " does not care about the rest"
2) that said, the rest does not necessarily follow either, teachers in one school may well send their children to another (state or independent) because it is more suitable, but still do a damn good job for the kids they are teaching. I also know German teachers in their local Realschule who send their children to the nearest Gymnasium.
3) You seem very ready to criticise UK parents who are trying to do their best for their children. If they choose to spend tens of thousands moving house to a "good" catchment area, encourage their children in the local church choir, or are fortunate enough to earn a place in a cathedral choir school, or indeed choose to do without foreign holidays, a smart car, or other luxuries to afford school fees, that is their business.
And I suspect parents who want the best for their children are the same the world over.

Re the title, shenanigans and worst examples - this was of course based on the documentary and the description of what the programme was to expose, and did- and I think few here would, having seen the programme, say that it did not describe 'shenanigans' - buying a flat in the catchment area and 'prentending' to live there, is plainly fraudulent ' or would you disagree with that? The programme sought to do just that- look for the worst examples of fraud- hence the OP.

For those of us who have studied comparative education for 40+ years- it is clear the the UK education system, which was one of the earliest to develop in Europe, is still saddled with class division- carried through from medieval times. Newer systems, like those in Northern Europe and here were I live- were able to set up on much more equlitarian principles. The French system however, despite the law requiring it to be secular- still has loopholes for the Catholic Church- which is bizarre. It allows parents to select a very cheap private Catholic school- something which is not afforded to other religions. A great way to ensure your children are not educated with 'those awful children or North African origin'. But this is another story.

When our DD1 went to our village school, in 1978- I had NO idea it was a Church of England school- and was truly shocked that the Vicar and Parish had so much say into what went on- and direct access to the children (for sheer endoctrination) - and even more shocked that several parents chose to send their kids to another CofE school in the next village, a non CofE school in yet another village, and several parents to a whole array of private schools in town- thus dividing the children at such a young age. They never played the same after that- yes, still had contact, but the magic was broken. Refuting that there is something quite unique, based on long term historical reasons, for the divisions on class lines in UK schools- is like putting your head in the sand, I am sorry to say.

When our DD1 went to our village school, in 1978- I had NO idea it was a Church of England school- and was truly shocked that the Vicar and Parish had so much say into what went on- and direct access to the children (for sheer endoctrination) - and even more shocked that several parents chose to send their kids to another CofE school in the next village, a non CofE school in yet another village, and several parents to a whole array of private schools in town- thus dividing the children at such a young age. They never played the same after that- yes, still had contact, but the magic was broken. Refuting that there is something quite unique, based on long term historical reasons, for the divisions on class lines in UK schools- is like putting your head in the sand, I am sorry to say

That may be your experience, it has not been mine.
I made a careful study of the primary schools around us before visiting each and reaching a decision as to which we would apply to . Our children enjoyed their little C of E primary schools in both London and subsequently our village school, made firm friends with whom they played then and maintain their friendships now despite many children in our village going to one of 4 excellent independent schools in a town about 12 miles away, the local comprehensive, 2 miles away or one of the RC secondary schools in our local larger town, 6 miles away.
My experience had no element of class division, parents in all the secondary schools I knew encompassing professionals, people in education and the NHS, in the media, local business owners, farmers, -all sorts. We are not talking Eton or Benenden here!

Our local village school is non-aligned. I spend some of my time as a governor making sure that this is adhered to and that those parents who do not wish their children to be at a faith school can be sure that their children are getting what it says on the tin.

Children get one crack at school and parents are reasonable to try and get the best for them - I have no quibble with that - it is what I and many other parents did/do.

It is not just about parents wishing to send their children to the best school - it is about trying to avoid them getting lumbered with the worst.

and that I totally get Luckygirl. And yet, if there are schools which are 'the worst' is it not a moral duty to then ensure those schools are supported and helped to become better- no school should be 'the worst' and no child should go to 'the worst'- none.

Once 'upward' mobility is totally lost to some sections of the population, the whole of society suffers- our children and GCs too. I've been struggling to come to terms with this since... 1972. Even became a teacher to understand the issues better- and am still surprised 40+ years later that few see that a hugely divided society with little upward mobility- is NOT in anyone's interest- let alone those we dearly love.

There are of course so many different types of private schools- and some are less segregated from the rest of society than others. I certainly do know many children who have attended posh prep-schools and boarding Public Schools, who have hardly ever met a child from a modest background. Apart from going to Africa on a very expensive school trip ... that is, for 'charity'.

I agree with you, granjura.
Why do you assume, Alea, that parents have a choice of sending their children to good schools by paying to move into a good catchment area, etc.
Most parents do not have that choice, and that is what granjura is talking about.
The village I live in has two primary schools, both church schools. They are also the local schools that everyone living in the village sends their children to, regardless of whether they are the local shopkeeper, windowcleaner or GP. The high school is also a church school which takes local children first.
I believe in community education, and only in that way will those with money not have undue influence in the education system.
We can but dream.

It's a hit-or-miss business. When we moved north we were very glad to get the boys away from a mediocre school (it still is according to the league tables) to a highly recommended one in the suburb where we chose to live. However, the said school has had many ups and downs in the intervening years and we discovered that its level of pastoral care was absolutely abysmal in our DSs' time there. By contrast, a school where I was a governor really pulled itself up under the guidance of an excellent head who re-organised the management structure.

DJ, If there wasn't the "attraction" of a "good" catchment area, certain parts of our towns, cities and villages would not be able to command the premium which they do. It does happen , just look at any estate agent's particulars or advertisements, and is another form of selection by income. I don't assume people necessarily can, just that they do.

But it shouldn't with our children's schools, Alea.
Education is far more important than to leave it up to people who can pay for it by whatever means.
All schools should be good ones, as granjura says.

Indeed- and as said before, if the more 'influential' parents had to send their kids to the local school, they would use their influence, to ensure the schoolk is turned around, for their kids, of course- we all want the best for our kids, but also for all the kids- same for the NHS. If parents didn't spend vast amounts on private education, would possibly be far more ready to spend more on schools via taxation (same for NHS). Must check the figures, not done so for a while- but many countries choose to spend a lot more on education than others- if I remember rightly, the per capitation amount here is about twice the same as in the UK.

Right DJ and like Mchael Gove said "I want very school to be better than average" , be realistic.
And this problem is not unique to England.

My daughter, myself and three grandchildren are in the last week of moving from Kent to Shropshire. She has had to find a senior and junior school for the grandkiddies. Grandson was at a Grammar School so we are hoping he will meet the entry requirements for the local Academy school which has a good reputation. The Granddaughters will hopefully both be at the local Junior School which also has a good reputation. Hardest part is actually getting hold of someone - we were not sure exactly which area we would buy a house in until the Summer holidays started - and the schools in Shropshire broke up earlier than here in Kent. Fingers crossed they all get their places! Far harder to change schools than when my children were little and we moved - more schools need to be built to cope with the extra children we have now.