Do I risk it?

Whew! Rock and hard place! Clearly, you've come to a place of peace and it's scary, no doubt, to risk losing it. Then again, it's tempting to give this reconciliation a try and see your two youngest GC more often.

Once again, I have a few questions to get a clearer picture of the situation...

"My son is almost out of her clutches..."

I'm not sure what this^^ means. Are you saying you know for a fact that he has one foot out the door or do you just suspect it? Has he actually moved out? Or??

"I don’t trust her and can almost guarantee that she will do a repeat estrangement if she cannot get her own way."

I totally get your not trusting her after what you've experienced w/ her. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "if she cannot get her own way" though. Do you mean "if she doesn't get DS back" or "if you, yourself, don't do this/that her way?" B/c, IMO, if you feel it will depend on what DS does, that's especially risky. If it's about your own actions, well, you have more control over that. If it's just a matter of accepting the time limits she puts on visits w/ the GC or following strict rules she has for them, it might be worth going along w/ these things to get to spend time w/ them. (Only you can know how you feel about that, of course.)

But, I admit, I've never had to deal w/ this problem. Others who have may have a better perspective on this scenario than I.

Thanks for replying Starlady- answers to your questions:
They are on the verge of a split, my son has finally realised that she leads him a dog’s life and for the last month, they have become increasingly estranged with him not conforming to what she wants and even finding himself a new girl and moving out of P’s house when she threatened him with homelessness( whereas usually he backs down). He’s been so much more like my son too.He’s even laughing again.
I mean both reasons when I say “ get her own way”. If she gets him back it will only be a matter of time before she pulls this estrangement stuff again and she will expect me to do it her way as she thinks that the GC are my weakness. They were once but she has destroyed the bonds and although I love them I’m not addicted to them like I am to the other 2 who it feels like the end of the world for me if I have to miss a visit due to illness for example.
The tone of the text is duplicitous too implying that she has accepted my son splitting from her which I know she hasn’t because of the frenzied and abusive phone calls to his friends regarding his recent whereabouts.She also mentions how she views this “ reconciliation” with me stating how it would look before it’s been discussed.It just seems so false, like she has an ulterior motive.

I don’t know what or where your other thread is and why start a new thread. about a subject already discussed why not just carry on with the original one
You sound very strange to say ‘addicted’ to two grandkids!!!

I find ‘addicted’ a strange term.
I would just see the grandchildren - they are the innocent ones- take it from there.

I think I know what Tempestseeker means by not being addicted to these grandchildren like she is to the other two. I think it is a reference to how if you are addicted to something you experience withdrawal symptoms if you can't have the thing you are addicted to. In other words she loves all her grandchildren but two of them she misses and feels really upset if she can't see them or plans with them fall through. But these other grandchildren she loves them and cares about them too but has not got a strong bond with them, she is still able to get on with her life and feel ok even though she isn't able to see them. I don't think you sound strange at all although I haven't read your other post. I understand you don't actually mean you are addicted to them and are just trying to describe the difference in your feelings for the different sets of grandchildren.

I can see why you feel it is a risk. But I do think this is a decision only you can make. I don't know you and can't predict how badly becoming estranged again would effect you and whether you would be able to pick yourself back up again. I would feel just as cautious and unsure as you do. I hope you are able to make whatever is the right decision for you. Good luck with your decision.

I would like to ask some questions if that’s ok?
How old are your grandchildren? How much do they understand why they don’t see you?
Has your son definitely moved out for good, and are they married or not?

If he’s decided to leave permanently presumably he will continue to see the children. Would you be able to see them then when he has them on his own and be able to sidestep the mother?

I'm aware that what I'm going to say is ONLY based on what you've said and there is likely a LOT of stuff that hasn't been included.

HOWEVER, and please don't take offense, because this IS based on what you've said.

Your son doesn't sound blameless in this. You said they are on the verge of a split. And that for the last month they've been increasingly estranged. BUT he already has a new girl. Even though he and his partner are NOT totally split up.

As a result, despite you not liking your DiL, I'm assuming that SOME of your dislike is bias against her (in addition to what I'm sure are actual faults). In this light, I would take the olive branch offered and see your grandchildren.

YOUR broken heart over the children is not the main concern (apologies, I know that sounds hard, but read on), their feelings are. Their mum and dad are splitting up. There has been a lot of family acrimony in the past. The poor children will be feeling very vulnerable.

Your reappearance may be of some comfort to them. Not your fault you disappeared at all, but still, the children will have felt the loss. If they loved you once, they will still love you. See them. Give them LOTS of love. Yes, shower them in Christmas presents. Who cares if your DiL is mercenary? The GC will love the presents. Again, they're having a hard time. Brighten their lives with some lovely presents. Take the chance to reassure them that granny will ALWAYS love them no matter what, whether you're with them or not. And that they can always come to you (now or in later life) if they want/need.

My heart would be broken if I was estranged from my GS. I will and would do anything to maintain my relationship with him. My daughter and I don't get on and it is a possibility this will occur at some point. I'll do what I have to, to see him. Pride can go to hell.

I had a lovely granny and grandad. My parents, frankly, were s**t. The unconditional love of those 2 grandparents saw me through. I still have hugely fond memories of my granny, even though she died 42 years ago when I was 11. I hope I can be as loving to my DGS.

I’m with GagaJo . It is a risk but recontact your grandchildren whilst you have the chance. If you don’t and their mother tells them she offered it to you and you decided not to the message to them is you didn’t care about them and you didn’t love them.

Buy some nice presents that they’d really like, what does the cost matter? Go all out to be as pleasant as possible to their mother and be thrilled to see them. If it all goes pear shaped again those children will know you have tried your best again.

And talk to your son seriously too, he is gambling with his children’s happiness in all this as well.

How many more women is your son going to cheat and impregnate!

Are they unreasonable to begin with or are they broken from his disgusting treatment of them?

Blimey, Bibbity, where did that come from?

Are you referring to the previous thread? I can’t find it, so it would be helpful to have a link to it, OP, so that we have the background information you refer to.

Ah, yes, I’ve got it now.

www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement/1264582-Why

Yes Maggie.

And even in her comment above she says

* they have become increasingly estranged with him not conforming to what she wants and even finding himself a new girl and moving out of P’s house when she threatened him with homelessness*

I am seriously doubting that a prolific cheat is the wounded partner. He is probably playing with her. Destroying her and thus making her lash out.

And the blasé way the OP just mentions him lining up his next victim and how wonderful he’s been recently makes me believe that she is an enabler.

I’m not surprised the mother hasn’t warmed to you of this is the case.

I find it strange that some gransnetters don't understand what the "being addicted" to the grandkids means.

Are the children happy in the life they are leading now? Do they miss you?

If they are happy, I would leave things as they are now. Send them Christmas presents via your son. Leave it at that. No point in putting yourself through a fresh hell.

Good luck.

WTF is an "enabler"? Is this more accepted Estrangement talk?

@Tempestseeker the penultimate sentence on your OP "and with the grandchildren safe from emotional pain." Really???

Maybe consider spending less time anguishing over P's facebook posts that offend you, unfollow for a while. What is posted on FB is NOT real life. And then think really hard about what is in the grandchildrens' best interests.

I would go with your gut instincts for now, don’t rush. If it is just a Christmas thing, or any other motive in her grand plan, it won’t last, and you and the GC won’t have lost anything. You do need to talk and find out what you did for her to estrange you in the first place. She may have been completely justified, or she might just like playing games. Take it really slowly, and avoid jumping the minute she shouts, no matter how hard it is. The GC will suffer much more if you have an in/out relationship with them.

I don't think the back story matters. It only complicates the present scenario.

I would think Tempestseeker means the children are safe from emotional pain if things continue to jog along as they are now. I think she's right.

"enabler" isn't a term restricted to estrangement issues Gonegirl it refers to someone who by their inaction or even their active participation allows or enables certain behaviours to continue.

Someone who buys alcohol for an alcoholic, obtains drugs for an addict, buys all the wrong food and encourages it to be eaten by some one who is morbidly obese, is an enabler.

In this case, the OP's son by not taking the children to see their GM without his wife, has enabled her to deny the OP contact. By not making a stand and telling his wife he wont allow his mother to be treated this way, he has enabled this behaviour to continue.

You asked "what would you do?" Tempestseeker, well I would do as Gonegirl has suggested. Send their presents and cards via your son. Don't agree to see the children at this time as you're opening yourself up to being hurt if, and more than likely when, she takes them away again.

Problems in their parents relationship are going to be difficult and unsettling for the children to deal with, so leave things as they are and hopefully if your son finally manages to break free from her, you'll be able to see the children then.

Yes, I know that Smileless. I can't see how it applies to these cases though.

Never mind.

Ah - sorry. You've explained.

The present scenario is there because of any history.

Gonegirl

I think I remember your first post OP, 4 grandchildren, 2 biological and step? Is that right? Which are which?